Molecular gastronomy in London

[PassionateChefsDie]

This is interesting. I've been careful to distinguish between molegular gastronomy (the scientific approach) and 'outlandish combinations', etc., but haven't used the term 'avant garde' as I'm not sure how it's interpreted in culinary circles.

Pragmatically, of course, there is bound to be a correlative tendency between chefs practising MG and somewhat outlandish menu items appearing, be they from novel technique or from novel flavour combinations.

In general usage, 'avante garde'  is the invention and application of new techniques in a given artistic field (dictionary.com!), which would make MG an example of it.

It seems a surprising implication that it's not possible to get avant garde food in London at all, though. Has this always been the case, as what is 'avant garde' has changed over time?

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Me too thats why I asked for clarification!

[Jonathan Day]

I would define 'molecular gastronomy' methods as cooking with direct and deliberate attention to the physical and chemical processes that are being used. As an example, here is a short article by Heston Blumenthal explaining not just how to make good mashed potatoes, but why it's done this way, and prescribing very specific temperatures at each step. He goes into more detail in his book. This, for me, would qualify as the use of MG. Jack is closer to the ongoing MG debate and may want to weigh in here.

I don't know precisely what it means to say that 'it's not a concept, it's the application of technology'. In shorter words, MG is more about how you prepare foods than about what foods you prepare, or how you organise a menu. But, like many new technologies, MG opens up possibilities that weren't there before.

I have generally heard 'avant garde cuisine' used to refer to unusual combinations or transformations, unexpected turns in menus or in the use of flavours or ingredients: mustard ice cream, snail porridge, etc.

And I think it's fair to say that the influential London restaurants -- e.g. those in the Ramsay empire, or the Roux group, or the Ivy/Sheekey's/Wolseley group, or the River Cafe, or Mossiman's, or ... -- have been fairly traditional in their menus and dishes.

[PassionateChefsDie]

I would define 'molecular gastronomy' methods as cooking with direct and deliberate attention to the physical and chemical processes that are being used.  As an example, here is a short article by Heston Blumenthal explaining not just how to make good mashed potatoes, but why it's done this way, and prescribing very specific temperatures at each step.  He goes into more detail in his book.  This, for me, would qualify as the use of MG.  Jack is closer to the ongoing MG debate and may want to weigh in here.

I don't know precisely what it means to say that 'it's not a concept, it's the application of technology'.  In shorter words, MG is more about how you prepare foods than about what foods you prepare, or how you organise a menu.  But, like many new technologies, MG opens up possibilities that weren't there before. 

I have generally heard 'avant garde cuisine' used to refer to unusual combinations or transformations, unexpected turns in menus or in the use of flavours or ingredients: mustard ice cream, snail porridge, etc. 

And I think it's fair to say that the influential London restaurants -- e.g. those in the Ramsay empire, or the Roux group, or the Ivy/Sheekey's/Wolseley group, or the River Cafe, or Mossiman's, or ... -- have been fairly traditional in their menus and dishes.

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I mentioned that one of the first cook books to do this was Raymond Blanc he used a direct and deliberate science to apply it to Traditional French. As I believe that GR does, the difference is the choice of ingredient composistion not the application of science.

To say that someone with 3 stars isn't avant garde surely he's at the forefront as is Phillip Howard who probably has more right to use the term. All good chefs use the science it's just the application of it.

When I see the term Molecular Gastronomy I think of getting a microscope and a plate. I honestly believe we probably need a new term here.

As for good mash I sure Raymond did this in his book, might be wrong. Every chef with Mcgee could tell you the science, even Nico mentions the influence of this book.

P.S.

Ought to add not a big fan of MG though what L'enclume is doing has woken me up, I've found a restaurant I WANT to eat at.

[Dirk Wheelan]

As ever, we're confusing avant garde with molecular gastronomy.

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No one is doing anything of the sort. We're talking about restaurateurs who publicize themselves with an explicit association with MG. It so happens that this angle is associated with haute cuisine at its trendiest. Even chefs like Anthony Flinn, who vehemently denies being a devotee of this publicity gimmick, still continues to be identified as an exponent of MG by people who should know better.

Consequently, given the title of the thread, we're talking about restaurants associated in the public mind with MG, rather than what MG is. However, we can't talk about the in-situ technological application of the science behind cooking processes in this context because it's everywhere. To give one example, the ultra traditional Roux brothers were the first to spot the potential of 'sous vide' and purchased the rights to its exploitation in the U.K. As long ago as the eighties, they had low temperature controlled stirred water baths which they used to cook sous-vide pigeon and lamb using a stopwatch!

MG, as it's understood, is the science of making your food 'sound' more interesting than it really is, which is probably why it appeals so much to fashion victims.

[PassionateChefsDie]

As ever, we're confusing avant garde with molecular gastronomy.

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Consequently, given the title of the thread, we're talking about restaurants associated in the public mind with MG, rather than what MG is.

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Surely if we can't determine what MG is we cant really decide whether there's London Restaurants are doing this. Though me and you seem to agree, what is MG any way?

Stef

[ermintrude]

Baccus