Cantonese Chow Mein

[Dejah]

Here ya go, gus_tatory. Take it away!

For those of you still contemplating sui mai/dan tart or the joong cook-off, it's ]NEVER TOO LATE TO PARTICIPATE.

Threads can be revived anytime.

It will be interesting to see exactly what Cantonese chow mein is.

hzrt! I want to see some participation from you! You have so many good ideas and suggestions. Show us what you do!

Edited June 9, 2005 by Dejah (log)

[Dejah]

Oh Lord! I can't believe I spelled Chow as Cjow...been correcting too many ESL papers!

Ok. Who knows how to edit topic lines?

The Mighty Embarrassed Dej with fat fingers!

[sheetz]

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It will be interesting to see exactly what Cantonese chow mein is.

I was actually wondering what that meant myself. I think a true Cantonese style chow mein would use the fresh Cantonese-style thin egg noodles (which I don't have access to--only the dried ones).

Also, is pan frying them to a crisp on two sides (leung mein wong) considered Cantonese? I think I've heard that referred to as Shanghai-style, but I wasn't sure.

[Dejah]

.

It will be interesting to see exactly what Cantonese chow mein is.

I was actually wondering what that meant myself. I think a true Cantonese style chow mein would use the fresh Cantonese-style thin egg noodles (which I don't have access to--only the dried ones).

Also, is pan frying them to a crisp on two sides (leung mein wong) considered Cantonese? I think I've heard that referred to as Shanghai-style, but I wasn't sure.

←

I am waiting for some "definitions" before I "chow"...

Should the noodles be soft with other ingredients piled on top?

Should there be a sauce?

Should the noodles be crispy as sheetz asked?

Should there be a mix of Chinese vegetables, meats and seafood?

Should there be baby corn ( ) and waterchestnuts?

Should there...should there not?

[torakris]

count me in on this one!

I have know idea what Cantonese chow mein is, but it sounds good.

any recipes someone can point to?

[Pam R]

I am waiting for some "definitions" before I "chow"...

Should the noodles be soft with other ingredients piled on top?

Should there be a sauce?

Should the noodles be crispy as sheetz asked?

Should there be a mix of Chinese vegetables, meats and seafood?

Should there be baby corn ( ) and waterchestnuts?

Should there...should there not?

←

Yes, yes, not crispy, yes, yes.

At least, that's how I've had it in every chinese restaurant in Winnipeg and the region (and in Canton!).

I have no idea how to prepare the dish, but I can't wait for some of you to show me.

[Pan]

It's been quite a long time since I've had typical American-Chinese Chow Mein (which may not be the same as real Cantonese), but I seem to remember that snowpeas were a constant feature.

[SuzySushi]

Heh! (That's a Chinese or Japanese "heh.") Count me in!

I've never used a recipe for Cantonese-style chow mein, though. Just thrown together a combination of what's in the house and what looks good in the market. Saturday's the farmer's market. Will "chow" over the weekend.

[Ben Hong]

We in Atlantic Canada always fried a bunch of the medium thin egg noodles semi crispy on both side, to form a pancake like shape. Whatever veggies are at hand and fresh, char siu, chicken and shrimp or a few chunks of lobster are stir fried with regular seasonings and oyster sauce. Plate the noodles and scoop the saucy topping over them.

That's all.

[sheetz]

Usually when I go out for dim sum, it seems like most (Chinese) customers order their Chow Mein crispy (leung mein wong). I know my family and friends always do.

Here's a (paraphrased) recipe from Eileen Yin Fei Lo, who is a real stickler for authenticity when it comes to Chinese food. She claims this is "the true dish known in China as chau mien."

Pork Marinade:

1 1/2 tsp oyster sauce

1 tsp sesame oil

1/2 tsp Chinese white rice wine

1 1/2 tsp grated ginger

1/2 tsp soy sauce

1/2 tsp sugar

1/2 tsp cornstarch

1/8 tsp salt

pinch of white pepper

1/4 lb pork loin, julienned

Sauce:

1 c chicken stock

1 1/2 Tbl cornstarch

1 Tbl oyster sauce

1 tsp sesame oil

1/2 tsp dark soy sauce

1 tsp sugar

1/8 tsp salt

pinch white pper

6 c water

1/2 lb fresh Chinese egg noodles

5 Tbl peanut oil

1 1/2 Tbl minced ginger

1 1/2 tsp minced garlic

1/3 cup Chinese black mushrooms, soaked in hot water for 30 min, julienned

1 1/2 c yello chives or garlic chives, cut into 1/2 in pieces

1 c mung bean sprouts

1. Combine marinade ingredients with pork and let rest for at least 30 min.

2. Boil water over high heat and add noodles, stirring for 20 sec. Drain and rinse with cold water. Separate and allow to dry for 2 hours, stirring occasionally.

3. Heat large cast iron skilllet over high heat for 2 minutes and add 2 Tbl peanut oil. Place noodles in skillet in an even layer and cook until browned, 3-4 minutes. Flip the noodles over and add one more Tbl peanut oil. Cook for another 3 minutes until browned on the second side. Remove noodles from pan and cover to keep warm.

4. Heat wok over high heat for 40 sec. Add remaining peanut oil. When oil is hot add ginger first, then garlic. Then add the pork and marinade, spreading it in a thin layer. After 30 sec add mushrooms and stir to mix. Make well in the center and add the sauce ingredients. When the mixture is boiling add chives and bean sprouts, stirring for 2-3 min. Remove from heat and pour over noodles.

[...tm...]

I've made this dish a couple of times based on the Eileen Lo recipe sheetz mentioned (also a chicken and snow peas variation in the same book) and it is excellent. I've never had authentic Cantonese chau mein in a restaurant (or Cantonese home) so I always wonder about the crispiness of the noodles. When I make it I always end up with a giant noodle pancake that is quite crispy on both sides, but soft in the middle. I really like it this way, but never know if it is supposed to be crisp all the way through or not. Does leung mein wong mean crispy all the way through? Thanks for any help.

[hzrt8w]

......  I really like it this way, but never know if it is supposed to be crisp all the way through or not.  Does leung mein wong mean crispy all the way through?  Thanks for any help.

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The Hong Kong style chow mein (leung mein wong) is typically crispy around the edges. When the boiling hot sauce (with meat and vegetable mixed in) is poured on top of the chow mein, it makes the center of the noodle nest soft and moist.

The attractiveness of this style is that you get the crispy, crunch noodle on one hand and the soft and juicy noodle on the other. When chew together, the contrast is excellent.

[Pan]

The Chow Mein with Beef and Chinese Broccoli at Congee Village, a very popular big Cantonese/Hong Kong-style eating hall in Manhattan has a sort of nest of noodles that are completely crispy, with the other ingredients except for some of the brown sauce over the noodles.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Pan (log)

[sheetz]

Does leung mein wong mean crispy all the way through?  Thanks for any help.

Leung mein wong literally translated means "two face yellow." In other words, that the noodles have been browned on two sides. As Pan stated many chefs, instead of browning on both sides, simply deep fry the whole thing until crisp. Both ways are delicious.

[hzrt8w]

It will be interesting to see exactly what Cantonese chow mein is.

hzrt! I want to see some participation from you! You have so many good ideas and suggestions. Show us what you do!

←

It's really tempting to bite... but I can't. Sorry.

My summer schedule doesn't allow me time to cook dinner. No joong. No Mapo tofu. No Dan Tart. No Siu Mei. Similarly no Chow Mein.

What is considered "participation" in these cook-offs? I served the role of a virtual food critic. Doesn't that count?

I have made Cantonese Chow Mein many times. Of course, I am Cantonese. How can I participate?

Besides, my digital camera is in gadget heaven. Can tell but no show. May be you can buy one and FedEx to me. Now we're talking!!! (A Sony Cybershot DSC-T1 please!)

[Dejah]

So, what's your secret recipe? hzrt?

Is it "authentic"?

If you can't show and tell, at least, tell!

[wesza]

How ever you prepare your "Noodles" it requires a "Wok" set up with very high heat. "Peanut Oil" not the very refined type generally sold away from Hong Kong or China. If you have no options then add some "Toasted Peanut Oil".

In most Restaurants in Asia for certain types of Chow Mein it's customary to first add some Diced Garlic and Sliced Ginger to the Hot Oil for a short time, then Strain before adding the Oil.

After the Noodles have set to Taste they are removed, placed into a serving plate.

Next step is putting the Cut Up Meats/Fish/Poultry/Shellfish into the Hot Oil just long enough to become opaque. Place in a dish near the Wok.

Add your Veggies to the Hot Oil, stirring until edge is observed getting seared.

Then return Pre-Seared Meats to Pan, still and "VERY IMPORTANT' allow Oil at edge of Wok to become flamed quickly. [Not sure of Chinese name for this step]

Immediately add some Good Pork Bone/ Chicken Stock cover with Wok Lid about 30/40 Seconds. Any seasoning such as "Soy Sauce", "Fish Sauce", "Oyster Sauce" is optional.

Finish by adding enough Corn Starch Liquid to Thicken Sauce/Mixture and Pour over the Noodles. "SERVE".

This whole process takes only several minutes to complete.

It served universally this way from "Tai Pai Tongs" to "Restaurants" in Hong Kong and China.

Irwin

[hzrt8w]

Also, is pan frying them to a crisp on two sides (leung mein wong) considered Cantonese?  I think I've heard that referred to as Shanghai-style, but I wasn't sure.

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Yes. I think leung mein wong is much canton style.

Typically, Shanghai-style chow mein (fried noodles) is referring to those thick soft noodles. They look and taste like Japanese Udon. I don't know if the Japanese stole it from the Shanghainese or the other way around. My Chinese bias would of course believe the Japanese stole it from the Shanghainese.

Shanghainese "chow" their thick, soft noodles in plenty of oil and dark soy sauce, with meat and cabbage (??) mixed in to the noodles (not poured on top).

In recent years, (in Hong Kong), chow udon and chow spaghetti (not kidding you) became very popular. Not sure what the latest fad is.

Chow mein, chow ho fun, chow mi fun, chow lai fun, chow udon, chow spaghetti... all of them go through a similar process.

[hzrt8w]

So, what's your secret recipe? hzrt?

Is it "authentic"?

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I have no secret recipe. I just follow the typical.

The recipe from Eileen Yin Fei Lo has listed the ingredients pretty well.

And wesza has an excellent description on the process. Way to go!

So take Eileen's list of ingredients and follow wesza's method, voila!

The flame around the edge of the wok: burning the peanut oil, is what gives Cantonese chow mein the characteristic "smoky" (sort of) flavor.

Edited June 10, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[SuzySushi]

The flame around the edge of the wok:  burning the peanut oil, is what gives Cantonese chow mein the characteristic "smokey" (sort of) flavor.

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Well, I can't flame the oil around the edges of the wok because I have an electric stove! I've found a trick to replicate the smoky taste is to stir-fry some scallion greens until they're almost black before adding any of the meat or veggies -- the burnt scallions also lend a characteristic "Chinese restaurant" taste to the food.

[Dejah]

I've had chow mein noodles in restaurants that appear to be darkened with soya sauce, but are dry (gon chow) inspite of shreds of vegetables and meat mixed in. I could never get that "dryness". Would the cook have deep fried the noodles instead of chowing in the wok? They don't appear to be greasy from deep frying.

I always make sure my noodles are cooled and dried from boiling before frying. And, if overcooked in water, no amount of frying will make them firm or crisp again. I found it best to boil the noodles the day before, drained well and kept in the fridge.

My grandson likes just the noodles, so I fry them seasoned with sesame oil. He's so easy to please.

[Ben Hong]

Sue-On, that's exactly what we used to do. After the noodles have been "floated" in water, drain and quickly dunk them in the deep fryer until they firm up again, and turn a light golden tan colour. Leave it to drain while you chow the toppings. The deep fry oil has got to be clean and fresh, and the noodles must be well drained.

For those who think that chow spaghetti or linguine is odd, I love it as much the thick Shanghai or udon noodles. I think that al dente spaghetti makes for a great noodle dish.

BTW, noodles, pasta, etc were invented by the Chinese. Even "ramen" is Chinese. The word is a corruption of "lo mein" by the Japanese who have difficulties pronouncing the letter "L".

[BarbaraY]

Count me in. I thought I had posted but guess I lost it when I had to answer the phone.

None of our local restaurants serve the Two Sides Yellow anymore. only soft noodles that I think most keep in the steam table..

Thanks for the tip on "flaming". I wondered how to get that flavor and will give it a try.

Going to the Farmer's market tomorrow so will see what Oriental vegetables are available there before I hit the supermarkets.

[sheetz]

I think you need to have a restaurant quality wok setup to get the flames. It may also help to cook with oil that's been used several times already because that lowers its flaming point.

The way I've been able to duplicate the smoky flavor of restaurants is by stir frying in a super-heated cast iron skillet. It's tricky, but I find the end result worth it.

[BarbaraY]

I think you need to have a restaurant quality wok setup to get the flames.  It may also help to cook with oil that's been used several times already because that lowers its flaming point. 

The way I've been able to duplicate the smoky flavor of restaurants is by stir frying in a super-heated cast iron skillet.  It's tricky, but I find the end result worth it.

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Thanks for the tip. Since I have an almost new wok I don't want to wreck it.

I did find that Teflon Woks don't cut it. Getting them hot enough kills the teflon. Will use a cast iron skillet and some used oil.