Brining

[tommy]

there has been some discussion of brining here of the past few days.  it might be worthy of its own topic.

my questions:

how?

how long?

does it really work?

i'm doing ribs this weekend, and it has been suggested that i brine them.  thoughts?

[Wilfrid]

Jim Dixon's method which he's posted in the Roasting Chicken thread is the same as mine as far as basic ingredients goes, but I don't boil the water.  Two parts kosher salt to one part brown sugar (I use a mug of the first and half a mug of the second for a turkey) well stirred into cold water.  You can then add a few juniper berries, or some herbs, or whatever flavorings you fancy - even if you don't, the brining adds tenderness and depth of flavor.

One tip:  if you are brining something big like a turkey, and are looking for something big enough, you can use a large plastic bag (check for leaks or bad smells of course).  I tie the plastic bag closed and sit it in a dutch oven; it gets the turkey well-covered.  How long?  Twenty four hours would be typical for me.

I haven't tried brining ribs, but I should have thought it's worth a go.  Oh yes, rinse well afterwards; I test for saltiness by just touching the meat with my finger and licking.  The idea is not to produce a very salty dish.

[Shiva]

Here's Alton Brown's brining recipe/method.

I've used variations of this a few times and it works great.

Here's a transcript of Alton's bird brining show.  Scroll down to Scene 14 for the goods.

[lullyloo]

Hey Tommy,

Check out CathyL's brine link on the Chicken thread.  It was enlightening with lots of recipes from pork to chicken.  I'm definitely going to try it with chicken this weekend.  will report back results.  happy meat-eating.

lullyloo

[Wilfrid]

Interesting, Shiva.  Too many different flavors for me, I think.  Am I weird in not boiling my brine, or is the boiling mainly worthwhile if you want to infuse the water with a lot of herbs and spices?

Come to think of it, my method may be from fergus Henderson's book.  I should check it and see if I missed the phrase "boil it"!

[Shiva]

I think the boiling deal is a leftover from the idea of making a curing brine.  The salt content would be higher, and the boiling water would help it dissolve easier.

I think.

As far as complexity goes, my brines tend to be much simpler than AB's example.  It's a rare day when there's both allspice berries and candied ginger in my kitchen at the same time (not to mention vegetable stock).

The simplest brine I've ever used was straight Worchestershire sauce.  2 pork chops, a Ziploc bag, a few splooshes of sauce and you're brining.

[col klink]

I used to heat up my brine to accelerate the salt and sugar disolving, but now I don't even do that. I just use warm tap water and let it set for a half-hour, then it's ready for the bird or pork.

does it really work?

You bet. I've done side-by-side comparisons of brined vs. un-brined ribs and the brined ribs won hands-down. They were more tender, juicier and more flavorful without being salty. You can brine 'em for an hour or up to three days. After that they start getting really salty.

[col klink]

Oh, I used to add a whole bunch of herbs and other seasonings but I had to add so much and let the meat brine for so long (like a week!) before you could notice them that it was it was no longer economically feasible or enjoyable. So now it's pretty simple: salt, sugar, vinegar, hot sauce and maybe lime or lemon juice.

[russ parsons]

I've done a bunch of stuff on brining. hell you can probably still find most of it if you google. but i will say that i REALLY don't like adding sugar to poultry brine. it's ok with pork, in small amounts, but when you do it with poultry it makes it taste just like luncheon meat! (sugar is absolutely NOT necessary for the brine to be effective--it's the salt that provides the chemical reaction).

[CathyL]

I like the effect of sugar on poultry, Russ.  To me the flavor is slightly hammy, which I guess qualifies as luncheon meat!

Usually I stick to simple salt & sugar but for my T'giving turkey this year I did a brine from John Ash that I found in 'Fine Cooking' a while ago - maple syrup, fresh ginger, chilis, garlic, soy, bay, thyme.  The flavors are subtle, but delicious.

[col klink]

I just realized that I put sugar in my brine out of habit from when I grilled most of the time, before I bought my smoker (the best thing I have ever bought in my life by the way). For grilling, it gave the meat that old bbq smell. I think I'll try taking it out in future brines destined for the smoker.

With my thanksgiving turkeys and the rest of my poultry in the smoker, the smoke flavor overpowers the herbs in the brine. So I find it is much more effective to put fresh herbs like basil and especially rosemary straight in the cavity and/or under the skin.

[tommy]

it gave the meat that old bbq smell.

ummm, is that a *good* thing?

[Jim Dixon]

Wilfrid...just to be clear, that was Alice Waters' brine recipe I posted. It was in the NYT several years ago and I've seen it reprinted almost every Thanksgiving since.

Another option for brining big items like a turkey is a cooler. I usually throw a bag of ice on top to keep it cold and leave it overnight.

I'm with Klink on the herbs and spices...they don't really seem to add much flavor, or maybe it's just overwhelmed by the gravy or cranberries (in the case of turkey, the only thing I've brined so far). I do think I'll try a few things this summer with a salt-only brine...I'm thinking my slow-cooked whoel chickens on the weber (indirect heat). I'm tempted by the smoker, but Judith might run meout if I try to squeeze another barbecue into the garage.

Jim

[col klink]

The first Thanksgiving I decided to brine my turkey I realized that I had nothing to put it in. Luckily though I remembered from my homebrewing days that the primary fermenter was a 5 gallon food-grade bucket, perfect for holding a turkey.  I was also lucky that it was cold enough to keep it outside.

"old" bbq smell relates to the bbq of my youth, where my father would slather bottle after bottle of grocery store bbq sauce over the chicken. As a matter of fact, he still does.

[Wilfrid]

I think I'm with Cathy on the sugar question.  If you keep going in that direction, you end up with chicken which looks and tastes like pastrami.  Not for every day, but it's by no means a bad experience.

[col klink]

For those with a backyard and an inkling to try smoking yourself, there's a great starter smoker from Chargiller (click me) in Georgia for $199 and free shipping. It's not the best smoker out there and I had to make a modification, but I've gotten a helluva lot of use out of mine and I love it to death. I can't possibly imagine going back to anything else unless I'm doing a steak or some dogs.

It does require a little more maintenance than a pricier model. After six months I needed to tighten the bolts down but you'll probably have to do that with any smoker you assemble yourself. The real maintenance lies with spraying the side firebox with vegetable oil after every smoke so it doesn't rust out. But really any bbq'er should have a bottle of that around to begin with.

The modification necessary was the the grill for the fire. It came with a flimsy small gauge wire grill for the fire and within six or eight uses it quickly got bent out of shape. Luckily a friend of mine welded a new one out re-bar with 1" spacings and it's been a performer ever since.

[rozrapp]

Keep in mind that if you want to avoid all the extra work of brining chickens and turkeys, buy kosher birds because the "brining" so to speak (that is the salting that is involved in the process of "kashering" them) has already been done for you.  And that's why, when it comes to which chickens have good flavor, kosher chickens generally come out at or near the top of taste tests.  And even though turkey is my least favorite fowl, the kosher turkey I buy once a year at Thanksgiving time always tastes great, no extra brining needed.  I kept a kosher kitchen for 30 years and, although I no longer keep kosher, I continue to buy only kosher birds because of their superior (IMO) flavor.

Now, when it comes to kosher beef, that's an entirely different matter and probably the subject for an entirely different thread.

[stagis]

You guys talked about brining ribs - try it with a pork loin (the big one).  The recipe I remember used cider vinegar, orange slices, fennel..... 1-2 days in the fridge, then out to the grill.  I've NEVER had leftovers.  

Container?  For turkey, I've used garbage bags.....

[col klink]

I've thought about using garbage bags but nowadays a lot of manufacturers line them with odor reducing chemicals and I'd rather not have them in the brine.

[tommy]

I've thought about using garbage bags but nowadays a lot of manufacturers line them with odor reducing chemicals and I'd rather not have them in the brine.

a great call on the bucket for brewing.  i have one lying around from my homebrewing days as well, and will put it to use finally!  (it seems that an awful lot of people go through what has become known as "a homebrewing phase"   )

[col klink]

At first my homebrewing was for fun but what I ended up liking about homebrewing (besides the alcohol, and the concept of making your own) was giving it away and getting great responses from my friends. It was the sheer act of giving and enlightening. Now that need is filled through bbq which I am much better at and have "quicker time to market."

Also, since a friend of mine does 10 gallon all grain batches that taste better than anything I could do, I can enjoy the process vicariously through him.

[kpurvis]

I'm relatively new to this site, so forgive me if I'm repeating anyone (it's a little hard to catch up on all these threads). I've done quite a bit of experimenting with brining while writing several articles on it. I second all the motions on turkey, ribs, etc. But my very favorite is to soak pork tenderloins in a brine made with apple cider (apple juice will work in a pinch) with maybe 1/4 cup of kosher salt. You don't have to soak them long -- I usually put them in a gallon-size resealable bag and put them in the refrigerator for 45 minutes or so. Rinse well, pat dry and roast as usual Pork tenderloin is often miserably dry, so brining not only adds moisture, but the apple flavor gets into the pork -- nice combination.

[Jinmyo]

The apple cider is a nice idea, kpurvis. Welcome to eGullet.

[Wilfrid]

Good idea, but just for clarification: do you mean hard cider or the non-alcoholic kind?  Or doesn't it matter?

[col klink]

I imagine soft cider as hard cider still really isn't prevalent as a popular beverage here in the states. With a little speculation here, I would wager that the soft variety would imbue the pork with more apple flavoring due to its more piquant apple bite. Assuming of course that one would be using fresh apple cider and not the powdered doppelganger.

Nice idea kpurvis and welcome.