French and Japanese cooking

[touaregsand]

zadi this is for a professional job i'm entering a cooking competition.

I have to ask who the "audience" is. My husband and I have done fusion for Asians and ya know the others, they like different things, that's what we've found.

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they haven't confirmed me for the competition yet

but i think i got a good chance of getting on.

It a tv cooking competition basically 5 contestants take it in turn to cook a dinner party on consecutive nights.

At the end of each meal the other contestants score the meal and the person at the end of the week with most point wins.

As the judges are the other contestants there are no real rules. in fact you can buy your food pre-made, you can hire a caterer, you can order take out!!!

The only thing is can you convince the other contestants to give you high scores.

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Okay, cut to the chase. Is it for White people or Asians?

[origamicrane]

zadi this is for a professional job i'm entering a cooking competition.

I have to ask who the "audience" is. My husband and I have done fusion for Asians and ya know the others, they like different things, that's what we've found.

←

they haven't confirmed me for the competition yet

but i think i got a good chance of getting on.

It a tv cooking competition basically 5 contestants take it in turn to cook a dinner party on consecutive nights.

At the end of each meal the other contestants score the meal and the person at the end of the week with most point wins.

As the judges are the other contestants there are no real rules. in fact you can buy your food pre-made, you can hire a caterer, you can order take out!!!

The only thing is can you convince the other contestants to give you high scores.

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Okay, cut to the chase. Is it for White people or Asians?

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haha!!

no beating about the bush here??

White and it be British white

(before anyone bites our heads off there are no racial connotations )

just that its a well known fact that British people are very resistant to trying unfamiliar dishes.

Hell i lost a competition a few weeks back because the judges didn't know how to eat crab still in its shell!!!

[Hiroyuki]

just that its a well known fact that British people are very resistant to trying unfamiliar dishes.

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OK, in that case, I guess I better keep my mouth shut.

My only suggestions at this point would be to add some seasonal Japanese ingredients.

[chefzadi]

just that its a well known fact that British people are very resistant to trying unfamiliar dishes.

Hell i lost a competition a few weeks back because the judges didn't know how to eat crab still in its shell!!!

I worked in the UK for a few years, England and Scotland. They like their red meat. Maybe beef instead of the chicken? Just a suggestion.

I'm so sure if this were posted in another forum we would be flamed to death with responses like , "excuse me I'm British, but I happen to like____, we're not all ___"

[origamicrane]

just that its a well known fact that British people are very resistant to trying unfamiliar dishes.

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OK, in that case, I guess I better keep my mouth shut.

My only suggestions at this point would be to add some seasonal Japanese ingredients.

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hiro thats a valid comment and in fact several of the others have drawn the same conclusion.

Well had a dig through loads of cookbooks and websites but still don't have dish that fits 100%.

so got two ideas at the mo, one is to do a full seafood menu and go for a tuna tataki dish with some japanese veggies probably choose some of the following:

shiitake, enoki, oyster mushrooms, asparagus, broccoli, mange tout, sugar snaps, edamame, carrot ,lotus root.

or i stuff the ballotine with japanese mushrooms, rice and errrr.....??

help!

[Hiroyuki]

Let me sleep on it. But first of all, I must say I don't like the idea of changing the preliminary menu completely. Just tweaking here and there should be enough, don't you think?

I have some questions, if you can answer at all:

1. I don't think kiwi is very Japanese. I could easily replace it with umeboshi paste or umezu (plum vinegar) or something. Is that risky in your country?

2. Japanese cuisine is improvisation in that the humble chef cooks what happens to be in season at the time of cooking. Butterbur sprouts are now in season in Japan. The bitterness truly represents the coming of spring. Shredded butterbur sprouts go perfectly with miso. Is that risky? You can't get them in your country?

3. No meal is complete without rice in Japanese cuisine. Are a tiny rice ball and a bowl of clear clam soup before the final dessert totally ridiculous?

[helenjp]

Foie Gras, Fillet Steak and Avocado Rice Bowl (Donburi) seasoned with wasabi/soy sauce

and also

Babette of Beef Rice Bowl...rice stir-fried with shiitake, beef briefly grilled, then rolled in a frypan with an arrowroot thickened sweet/salty sauce of fried onion, soy sauce, mirin, and oyster sauce, liberal dose of chives.

both from this book of dishes that restaurant staff eat on the job...so of course, the food is mostly aimed at young men doing physical labor, not under-exercised restaurant patrons .

Yasui Sozai de Oishii Makanai Ryouri

Not French but this dish looked pretty good...Minestrone with a small amount of Miso...usual minestrone vegetables, rice, fine vermicelli, mild miso, parmesan cheese to finish

Is it for White people or Asians? 

My thoughts exactly! Asians will be bored by old-hat "japonoiserie" garnishes, french people might not want to eat bitter gourd baked in pate feuillete...

Edited March 13, 2005 by helenjp (log)

[chefzadi]

I have some questions, if you can answer at all:

1. I don't think kiwi is very Japanese. I could easily replace it with umeboshi paste or umezu (plum vinegar) or something. Is that risky in your country?

I don't think plum vinegar would be risky.

2. Japanese cuisine is improvisation in that the humble chef cooks what

happens to be in season at the time of cooking. Butterbur sprouts are now in season in Japan. The bitterness truly represents the coming of spring. Shredded butterbur sprouts go perfectly with miso. Is that risky? You can't get them in your country?

French cuisine is in touch with the seasons as well. At the cuisine du terroir level it always was.

3. No meal is complete without rice in Japanese cuisine. Are a tiny rice ball and a bowl of clear clam soup before the final dessert totally ridiculous?

Rice will not be missed at all by a Westerner eating or looking at French/Japanese dishes. From a French chef's point of view rice has no place in French fine dining. I'm not saying that the attitude is correct, I'm just saying that's the way it's looked at. Also in a French meal the courses wouldn't flow that way.

So now we're touching on who the audience is.

Edited March 13, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[chefzadi]

[chefzadi]

Overall I think the menu is "Japanese" enough with just a little fine-tuning for a Western audience. Maybe it's not enough for a Japanese audience. I also think that Origami's audience is probably expecting French style with some Japanese ingredients rather than Japanese style with French ingredients. Also Japanese can mean other Asian things to this type of audience.

Just like in Asia sometimes "Western food" is White people food.

[helenjp]

Slightly bitter spring greens...What about making a pale green spring herb/wild herb miso rather than a yuzu miso? (Yuzu is a winter flavor).

Salad...bitter or wild greens are often paired with rich flavors such as mild white or pale miso, and/or sesame.

Slightly bitter shoots (such as asparagus) or leaves (such as garland chrysanthemums, but also other strongly-flavored herbs or leaves) are tempura'd, or deepfried in a whole or partial seed coating (sesame, but for fine cooking, white poppyseed can be used). They make a nice garnish too.

[origamicrane]

actually i never used plum vinegar

not sure i ever seen it available in the uk

anyone got a pic of a bottle?

Bitter greens like asparagus will be fine but anything more bitter will not go down well. Am thinking about using white asparagus right now.

I doubt a UK audience will miss the rice as they mostly encounter rice in chinese egg fried rice or pilau in indian cooking.

Think i will stay with the chicken unless i find anything better.

By the way as kurobuta pork come from the UK I could use that as part of the stuffing. Heck! i could just lie the idea is to make the menu read more fluidly.

Chicken Ballotine stuffed with shiitake, enoki, kurobuta pancetta and shiso?

I wonder what the shiso will do to the taste? hmm....

For the sauce what do you think about spiking the sauce with some wasabi?

[Hiroyuki]

I previously provided links to umezu-related webpages here.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...=0entry866013

See post #6.

I was thinking about grilled beef with maitake (hen of the woods) mushroom sauce, but stopped it after reading chefzadi's comment:

Stuff the ballotine with japanese mushrooms a little bit of Japanese ham, no rice. Do a chicken demi-glace with a touch of soy. I don't think it's a good idea to change your original menu too much. We can finesse it here and there.

I must say I agree. "with a touch of soy"! Great idea.

Besides, you wrote:

Think i will stay with the chicken unless i find anything better.

[chefzadi]

Chicken Ballotine stuffed with shiitake, enoki, kurobuta pancetta and shiso?

I wonder what the shiso will do to the taste? hmm....

Chicken Ballotine stuffed with Shitake and Enoki Mushrooms, Pancetta and Shiso.

Just add a tiny bit of finely chopped shiso or you could to a crispy fried shiso leaf garnish. Another suggestion is a braised lotus root or very thinly sliced and quickly sauteed lotus root garnish. Neutral flavor but adds another Japanese touche.

For the chicken demi-glace...

Brown a whole chicken and the mirepoix in the oven. Trim off the excess fat from the bird on both ends. Get a good color on it. Make a stock from the whole bird, meat and all plus the mirepoix, strain and reduce to a glaze. Kiss it with soy at the end.

[origamicrane]

ok cool sounds like i have a project for next weekend.

A very simple question

I never tried it so how do you crispy fry a shiso leaf?

i mean how do you keep it straight? and stop it from curling up?

[sizzleteeth]

ok cool sounds like i have a project for next weekend.

A very simple question

I never tried it so how do you crispy fry a shiso leaf?

i mean how do you keep it straight? and stop it from curling up?

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Roll it up and slice it and fry it in just a little oil or butter - it's very nice - much different taste then raw - but I think raw Shiso (perilla) is great for wrapping as well.

(I suppose you could deep fry whole leaves long ways on toothpicks though)

{edit} Removed "you don't" - because it is possible - I meant that in the vein of "there is no reason to".

Edited March 13, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[touaregsand]

I've had whole perilla leaves that were dipped in batter and fried in Korea.

[sizzleteeth]

I've had whole perilla leaves that were dipped in batter and fried in Korea.

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Tempura perilla actually sounds pretty good - never had it though.

{edit}:

Speaking of that - some Korean Markets tend to carry bundles of the larger perilla for around 2 to 3 dollars - at least in Chicago.

Edited March 13, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Shiso tempura is one of my favorites. Crunchy and tasty. You could also make mugwort leave tempura. Sorry that mugwort is not in season now.

Too many cooks spoil the broth... I guess I better keep my mouth shut again.

[touaregsand]

I like sizzles idea of deep fried chiffonade of shiso for origami's chicken ballotine as a garnish. Maybe some ginger and shitake mushroom for the chicken demi-glace.

I love shisho/perilla leaves. My mom wraps fresh leaves around rice that's been seasoned with sesame salt and sesame oil. It's an easy way to eat too much rice.

[origamicrane]

will have to buy some shiso leaf to experiment on

but they are soooo!!!! expensive in the UK!!

i kid you not!!

5 leaves for about £2.50!!!

if anyone want to send me some shiso plant seeds

will probably practise frying cilantro leaves first

Will have shiitake in the chicken so will probably not use it for the sauce.

but will make some demi glaze and experiment with wasabi, black pepper and soya sauce.

or i might make wasabi mashed potato?

Edited March 14, 2005 by origamicrane (log)

[touaregsand]

wasabi mashed potatoes sound more appealing than wasabi in the sauce.

I don't think the audience will really care if the herb is really Japanese or not.

I wouldn't spend too much money on them.

[Hiroyuki]

Instead of shiso leaves, you could use:

Dandelion leaves (and flowers)

or

Cherry leaves

Anything that represents spring will be good.

Seasonal emphasis!

[origamicrane]

Instead of shiso leaves, you could use:

Dandelion leaves (and flowers)

or

Cherry leaves

Anything that represents spring will be good.

Seasonal emphasis!

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dandelion probably the only one viable

but in the uk still very cold

doubt i be able to find any in bloom but will go an have a look

[origamicrane]

ok so it begins

going to be doing a dry one of this menu for a few lucky friends this weekend will take lots of photos and post them.

Just made a lovely pot of chicken stock using my "shuttle chef"

think i would highly recommend it to everyone as it saves so much electricty and time.

Anyway from the stock made a small sample of demi glace, a chicken jus and a rosemary and garlic jus. Out of the three i liked the rosemary jus the most as it had the strongest flavour although unsure how it will got with the chicken shiitake shiso ballotine and wasabi mash?

And other suggestions for a sauce for the chicken?

Edited March 17, 2005 by origamicrane (log)