Saudi Arabia

[Dejah]

Our international ESL students are having their potluck windup supper on Wednesday.

For the first time ever, we have a student from Saudi Arabia. I would like to make him feel included as all we have ever had are Asian and Spanish food because of the student body composition.

The student doesn't cook at all.

What can you suggest for a main course meat dish that I can make easily, and with ingredients that are readily available, even on the Canadian prairies?

I'm not sure on food restrictions, so please advise.

Suggestions with recipes would be greatly appreciated.

[Jason Perlow]

Well, Saudi Arabia is an interesting country because they are extremely modernized for an Arab nation, but they also have a lot of traditional bedouin ways. They do have a few unique dishes besides all the usual Middle Eastern dishes, though.

Here's a few interesting ones on Recipezaar.

http://www.recipezaar.com/r/15/110/75

and some from the Saudi Arabian Information web site:

http://www.saudinf.com/main/q021.htm

and a whole list of them here:

http://members.aol.com/JAlmansur/saudi_recipes.htm

The stuffed Camel sounds a bit ambitious though.

[Chris Cognac]

one of the things I enjoyed most in Saudi was the wonderful chicken, roasted w a little paprika and served with rice and the most amazing freshly baked flat bread. It still ranks as one of the best things I have ever had to this day.

[Dejah]

The chicken recipes in

http://members.aol.com/JAlmansur/saudi_recipes.htm

look promising. The only ingredient I didn't know was "black lemon". I guess I may have to do the Zirbeyan chicken.

The Arabian shortbread looks good, so I may try my hand on those. They could be a nice change from my usual Xmas shortbread.

Thanks for the suggestions, but you don't have to stop yet. My s-i-l and her family have been living in Saudi for the last 12 years. I can't get any response from them, but I can maybe surprise them when they come for a visit in the future.

[mark918]

The chicken recipes in

http://members.aol.com/JAlmansur/saudi_recipes.htm

look promising. The only ingredient I didn't know was "black lemon". I guess I may have to do the Zirbeyan chicken.

The Arabian shortbread looks good, so I may try my hand on those. They could be a nice change from my usual Xmas shortbread.

Thanks for the suggestions, but you don't have to stop yet. My s-i-l and her family have been living in Saudi for the last 12 years. I can't get any response from them, but I can maybe surprise them when they come for a visit in the future.

←

According to the nice people at world spice, Completely dried lemons are used in the Middle East as a souring agent in chutneys and even ground into flatbreads. The powder made from black lemons has a sweet-tart flavor that is unique and has no substitute.

They are, naturally enough, out of stock. Perhaps you could grind up some Sweet Tart candy.

If all else fails, I vote for the stuffed camel

[spaghetttti]

Most Honored Madame Dejah,

I know you were looking for a main, but here are a few alternatives:

For a salad course, how about Ful Madammas or Yogurt with Roasted Eggplant

Moarraq is a lamb dish that I have eaten, but not tried to make, it looks interesting.

For a good, easy meatball dish, Kefta would be nice.

Ummu Ali makes a good potluck dessert.

Just some suggestions for you

[spaghetttti]

one of the things I enjoyed most in Saudi was the wonderful chicken, roasted w a little paprika and served with rice and the most amazing freshly baked flat bread. It still ranks as one of the best things I have ever had to this day.

←

Oh Chris, I know of what you speak!!! In Mecca, they have those spectacular rotisserie chickens, so juicy and tender. Sometimes when our fellow hajjs get together, we longingly reminisce of our pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina, and inevitably those gorgeous chickens will be paid their due homage!

Thank you so much for reminding me again.

Edited November 21, 2004 by spaghetttti (log)

[Dejah]

one of the things I enjoyed most in Saudi was the wonderful chicken, roasted w a little paprika and served with rice and the most amazing freshly baked flat bread. It still ranks as one of the best things I have ever had to this day.

←

Oh Chris, I know of what you speak!!! In Mecca, they have those spectacular rotisserie chickens, so juicy and tender. Sometimes when our fellow hajjs get together, we longingly reminisce of our pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina, and inevitably those gorgeous chickens will be paid their due homage!

Thank you so much for reminding me again.

←

Ok, Chris, Yetti,

Quit tantalizing and give me some more information!

I am sitting here salivating!

Lamb is one of MY favourite meats...I am soooooo undecided.

[cherimoya]

I'm not sure on food restrictions, so please advise.

Regarding food restrictions in Islam:

Pork and pork products are forbidded ("haram"). Meat of other animals is permitted ("halal") if it is slaughtered in accordance with Islamic laws. You will probably have no trouble finding a halal meat store if you live near a large city. If you have trouble finding halal meat, you may substitute kosher meat, as this is also considered to be halal for Muslims. Carrion and meat of carnivores are forbidden. Seafood is generally OK and requires no special processing.

Alcohol and other intoxicants are forbidden (even if the alcohol is cooked off or used in small quantities). I have found verjus to be a good substitute for white wine in seafood dishes.

Other food products may also present problems: gelatin (made from porcine skin in North America), cheeses (may contain pepsin from pigs), etc.

I hope that this is helpful to you. I would be happy to answer any questions. I am well versed with these dietary restrictions as I am also Muslim. It is very kind of you to go to such trouble. I am sure that your student wil be most appreciative!

Roohi

[Dejah]

Thanks for the info'. Glad you reminded me about "halal" which is available in one of our supermarkets.

I guess with the Saudi recipe sites, they just assumed everyone would know that meats other than pork are allowed, but didn't think to remind us about the "halal" requirement.

[Jason Perlow]

As I understand, Kosher meat is acceptable to (most) Muslims as a substitute for Halal. In NYC, Kosher and Halal meat actually come out of the same meat market, the only difference is who certifies it right there on the spot -- a Rabbi or a Muslim cleric.

The main distinction between the two is that meat can be declared Kosher by the rabbi by blessing an entire room's worth of animals in the general slaughtering area, whereas in Halal, the individual animal must be blessed in the name of Allah with a prayer at the moment its throat is slit.

[spaghetttti]

When in doubt, we tend to go with fish.

[Dejah]

I noticed in the Arabian recipes that shrimp is allowed.

What about crab or lobster?

My friend who is Jewish said only seafood with scales and fins are allowed. Does that apply also to those of the Muslim faith?

[Dejah]

I noticed in the Arabian recipes that shrimp is allowed.

What about crab or lobster?

My friend who is Jewish said only seafood with scales and fins are allowed. Does that apply also to those of the Muslim faith?

Speaking of crab...we are ready to tie into 4 steamed dungenese, along with green beans, portebello mushrooms and seasoned potato wedges.

For dipping, we have garlic butter, dill/lemon peper butter, and red vinegar/seasme oil.

YUMMY!

[Behemoth]

All seafood is fine for Muslims. (I have a polaroid of my dad & a bunch of his buddies in Saudi Arabia in the 70s chowing down on a giant pile of crabs...)

But Chris' suggestion of chicken w/ paprika is a good one -- that is a very typical dish. It is called musakhan. I may have a recipe lying around somewhere, and it should be easily found on the web. It is easy to make and very good.

[Dejah]

I found recipes for musakhan. They all list sumac as an ingredient. I have never seen this spice in any stores here in our small city.

Is there anything that can be used as a substitue?

[cherimoya]

I found recipes for musakhan. They all list sumac as an ingredient. I have never seen this spice in any stores here in our small city.

Is there anything that can be used as a substitue?

←

You can substitute lemon juice. Sumac has a sour taste which is quite distinctive. Lemon juice should work fine.

[Chris Cognac]

All this talk of great food is going to force me to eat at the Shafaa Halal market now just walking distance from our new police station. Its awesome, they have a meat counter with tons of premade meats and to my suprise, very good shrimp skewers...My absolute favorite thing is that garlic spread for the flatbread...made with "clarified" butter I think...Behemoth moght be able to "clarify" (sorry couldnt resist ) what its made of.....but it is to die for....

[Behemoth]

I found recipes for musakhan. They all list sumac as an ingredient. I have never seen this spice in any stores here in our small city.

Is there anything that can be used as a substitue?

←

I found sumac in my indian grocery. (I live in the middle of nowhere).

If you like, PM me and I can mail you a ziplock-bag's worth. (I got enough to last me for years )

As far as substitutes, the lemon juice for sourness, but you need something for the color -- paprika would probably work well. But really, sumac is the stuff to use.

edit: the garlic spread is probably the good old standard "thoum": garlic pounded with salt into a paste, thinned with olive oil and a small amount of lemon juice

Edited November 22, 2004 by Behemoth (log)

[Pan]

Sue-On, I really recommend sumac. I think you'll enjoy it, so it's worth it for you to search it out, within reason (or accept Behemoth's offer to mail a bag to you).

Some Muslims consider some kinds of seafood haram, but evidently, that doesn't apply to Saudis.

I believe your plates and pots and pans might be a problem, though, if he's strict, since they've held haram food. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that. It is true that plates, silverware, pots and pans, and glasses have to be halal themselves, isn't it?

[Behemoth]

Sue-On, I really recommend sumac. I think you'll enjoy it, so it's worth it for you to search it out, within reason (or accept Behemoth's offer to mail a bag to you).

Some Muslims consider some kinds of seafood haram, but evidently, that doesn't apply to Saudis.

I believe your plates and pots and pans might be a problem, though, if he's strict, since they've held haram food. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that. It is true that plates, silverware, pots and pans, and glasses have to be halal themselves, isn't it?

←

I've never heard of any restrictions as far as seafood, pots or dishes, Pan. I am familiar only with arab muslim behavior, maybe east asian muslims do things differently(?)

[Dejah]

Sue-On, I really recommend sumac. I think you'll enjoy it, so it's worth it for you to search it out, within reason (or accept Behemoth's offer to mail a bag to you).

Some Muslims consider some kinds of seafood haram, but evidently, that doesn't apply to Saudis.

I believe your plates and pots and pans might be a problem, though, if he's strict, since they've held haram food. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that. It is true that plates, silverware, pots and pans, and glasses have to be halal themselves, isn't it?

←

I've never heard of any restrictions as far as seafood, pots or dishes, Pan. I am familiar only with arab muslim behavior, maybe east asian muslims do things differently(?)

←

I don't think pots, dishes, etc are a problem for Turki (my student's name) as he eats at the university cafeteria for every meal. It is difficult to find out much about him or how he fares in following restrictions of his faith as he has so little English! He did observe Ramadan and celebrated the end of fasting with fellow Muslims mainly from Pakistan.

[cherimoya]

Sue-On, I really recommend sumac. I think you'll enjoy it, so it's worth it for you to search it out, within reason (or accept Behemoth's offer to mail a bag to you).

Some Muslims consider some kinds of seafood haram, but evidently, that doesn't apply to Saudis.

I believe your plates and pots and pans might be a problem, though, if he's strict, since they've held haram food. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that. It is true that plates, silverware, pots and pans, and glasses have to be halal themselves, isn't it?

←

I've never heard of any restrictions as far as seafood, pots or dishes, Pan. I am familiar only with arab muslim behavior, maybe east asian muslims do things differently(?)

←

I don't think pots, dishes, etc are a problem for Turki (my student's name) as he eats at the university cafeteria for every meal. It is difficult to find out much about him or how he fares in following restrictions of his faith as he has so little English! He did observe Ramadan and celebrated the end of fasting with fellow Muslims mainly from Pakistan.

←

The rules regarding dishes are not as strict as they are in Judaism. I would not want to eat a veggie burger if it were cooked on the same griddle where bacon had just been cooked, but otherwise, I would eat food from a restaurant or from a non-Muslim's home if it were not obviously "contaminated" with something haram.

With regard to seafood, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are of the opinion that all food from the sea is halal (including, shrimp, squid, crab, etc.). There is a minority school of thought that considers these not to be halal, but I think that you would be safe to serve any seafood.

[Pan]

I've never heard of any restrictions as far as seafood, pots or dishes, Pan. I am familiar only with arab muslim behavior, maybe east asian muslims do things differently(?)

←

Not in terms of seafood. Southeast, East, and South Asian Muslims overwhelmingly consider seafood halal. I have had delicious Indonesian, Malay, Indian, and Chinese dishes of crab, shrimp, crawfish, squid, octopus, and other types of seafood at halal Muslim restaurants in Indonesia, Malaysia, India, and China.

In parts of Malaysia (such as Kuala Terengganu and Kota Bharu as of 2003), only restaurants that have signs saying "Makanan untuk orang bukan Islam" ("Food for non-Muslims") serve food that is not halal, and religious Muslims in Malaysia wouldn't go to such restaurants to have vegetable dishes even if there were no pork in them. And when students from a Chinese school were temporarily invited to study at a Malay school while their school building was fixed, they were forced to eat on paper plates, lest any haram food they may have brought from home should contaminate the dishes (and there were even some suggestions that if they had simply eaten haram food for breakfast, the contamination could still be in their saliva at lunchtime). But I also know Muslims who eat pork and others who don't eat pork but eat most anything else at restaurants that serve pork. So I guess standards vary from person to person and place to place.

[Dejah]

This morning, I was pleasantly surprised with 5 offers of SUMAC from within our university community!

Thank you to all of you for your generous offers of sumac and advice. I will have to thank my student for getting me interested in another culture and forum!

eGullet is a wonderful community. I am so happy to be here!