Wine for Thought

[Orik]

http://www.google.com/search?....+&hl=en

[A Balic]

See I was right, its all just a cultural construct! The article doesn't give very many details, so it is a bit hard to make a judgement.

[Orik]

I've actually witnessed a similar event. The tasters were not professionals, but they had the pretense that comes along with a 贄,000 cellar. Blindfolded, they could distinguish semi sweet white from dry red, but that's about as far as it went.

[A Balic]

I have seen a similar even as well. It was common to confuse Cab. Sav. with Sav. Blanc. Strange really, I would think that the tannins in a red wine would distinguish between red and white wine.

[tommy]

i'm having a hard time getting this link, although it seems that it might be interesting.  can someone re-post in a more user-friendly fashion?  the cut-and-paste method isn't working for me.

thanks.

[helenas]

i thing it's just a reprint of the following:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2002021121,00.html

[tommy]

i'll buy the label aspect, but i don't buy into the color switch.  just too unbelievable.

on the other hand i can sympathize with the experts as i'm generally talking out of my rump as well.

[Ron Johnson]

I don't know what this proves.

I prefer Hickey Freeman suits, but if you blindfolded me could I tell if it was that or a Hart Shafner?  Probably not.  What does that mean? Nothing.

Could an expert like Fat Guy be fooled into believing a "choice" steak was "prime".  Perhaps, but does it mean that he doesn't know anything about food.  Clearly not.

Anyone remember those Folger's commercials? "We secretly replaced the gourmet coffee used by this fine restaurant with Folger's Crystals."  Ok, I could tell a difference with that one.

However, my point is that attempts to "trick" an expert are often used to discredit an expert when they succeed.  But what does that prove?  That the expert can be fooled?  So what.  On a bet I once correctly identified 10 different vodkas in a similar price bracket that I tasted blind.  I knew the ten brands and had to match each shot with the brand.  Probably half of my choices were luck.  Just as that does not make me a vodka expert, this type of experiment does not prove that the "wine experts" are wrong either.

[tommy]

Quote: from ron johnson on 11:46 am on Jan. 25, 2002

 Just as that does not make me a vodka expert, ...

maybe not, but i'll bet it made you drunk!

tell me you didn't drink all ten shots.  after the fifth i wouldn't be able to tell the difference btwn the floor and the ceiling.

[Ron Johnson]

no, didn't do the whole shot, just a taste out of each.  

[Orik]

from ron johnson on 11:46 am on Jan. 25, 2002

I don't know what this proves.

That some wine experts are prejudiced, others may be plain old frauds.

I prefer Hickey Freeman suits, but if you blindfolded me could I tell if it was that or a Hart Shafner?  Probably not.  What does that mean? Nothing.

Suits have a very visual side to them, wine less so. You'll hardly hear anyone claiming (proudly) they paid 񙇈 for a bottle because of its nice ruby color or the pattern on the label. Hence the blindfold parallel is broken.

Could an expert like Fat Guy be fooled into believing a "choice" steak was "prime".  Perhaps, but does it mean that he doesn't know anything about food.  Clearly not.

But with wine prices the way they are, the fair comparison would be confusing white italian truffles with button mushrooms.

However, my point is that attempts to "trick" an expert are often used to discredit an expert when they succeed.  But what does that prove?

 

When you "trick" many "experts" in a statistically significant manner, it proves their expertise is, on average, suspect.

On a bet I once correctly identified 10 different vodkas in a similar price bracket that I tasted blind.

Your odds of doing it by chance are one in 3.6 million. If you identified 5 of them, your odds are still one in 120. That you did it goes a long way towards demonstrating your vodka identification skills (I hope you didn't have to drink absolut, even a bet is not worth the agony)

[Ron Johnson]

Wine doesn't have a visual side?  Interesting.  Actually ther color and appearance of wine is one of the most important indicators of its quality.

Italian truffles to button mushrooms?  That would be like comparing Cote Rotie to Budweiser.  I will galdly accept the challenge to correctly identify those two with a blindfold.

You would be right if these experts were tricked in a "statistically significant manner" but they weren't.  If one of them was blindfolded and then uttered, "All great Bordeaux is made from Zinfandel" then I might agree that the blindfold proved the person was not an expert on wine.

Cheers.

[Bux]

Anyone remember those Folger's commercials? "We secretly replaced the gourmet coffee used by this fine restaurant with Folger's Crystals."

Those were gems. How did they ever get the restaurants to participate? Than again, I'll bet those restaurants knew their audience--diners under the influence of the local restaurant reviewer who dined under the influence of martinis.

;)