Wine Prices

[mogsob]

I've been to a few restaurants recently that employ a sliding -scale mark-up.  That is, the more expensive the wine, the less the mark-up.  So, for example a typical Cote de Rhone ($7 retail) may go for $25-30 while a good Chambolle ($30 retail) may go for $60.

This makes for a difficult decision.  If I'm trying to keep costs down, my preference is for a good table wine, such as a CDR -- but I cannot justify paying $25-30 for that wine.  But if I opt for the Burgundy, I blow my budget.

Is it too much to ask that a bistro keep a good cheap house wine?

[Beachfan]

Ecomonomics should dictate sliding scale.  The upper end of the scale could be less than double retail (triple cost), and the restaurants would sell a lot more wine.  Nonetheless, even with markup of triple plus, reasonable house wines should be available. Just not american wines.

Go to Babbo or Lupa and see some miracles performed at the low end with Italian wines.  At Lupa, Falesco Vitiano for $21.  Sure, it's triple retail (if you are a sharp shopper), but it's delicious.  I was waiting for a single seat at the bar, and while Î was waiting, bought a bottle, made two new friends and had a blast with it.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Beachfan-The answer is to mainly frequent places that allow BYO. If that doesn't work for you (I mean the corkage can be $30 by itself), try and view wine as a fixed cost part of the meal that has no relation to the cost of a bottle at retail. If wine is going to be $40 of each bill, get the best $40 can buy and suck it up. There really isn't any other good solution.

[Beachfan]

I agree.  Gramercy Tavern and other Danny Meyer restaurants are very friendly to BYO folks.   On the other hand, one of the coldest NYC breezes I ever felt was when I inquired about it at Le Bernedin.  In California, 99% of the restaurants allow it, most at a very reasonable cost ($20 or less).

[mogsob]

[Go to Babbo or Lupa and see some miracles performed at the low end with Italian wines.  At Lupa, Falesco Vitiano for $21.  ]

I would hardly describe paying $21 for a bottle of Falesco Vitiano a miracle, except of course if you are Mario Batali.

I seem to recall an age when you could order a bottle of house wine (in an moderately priced restaurant) and get a decent table wine for $10.  That day -- thanks to all those $10 Merlot drinkers out there -- has likely come and gone.

It's getting to the point that if I want to order wine, I must be prepared to spend over $60 a head in NYC.

[Ruby]

I seem to recall an age when you could order a bottle of house wine (in an moderately priced restaurant) and get a decent table wine for $10.  That day -- thanks to all those $10 Merlot drinkers out there -- has likely come and gone.

It's getting to the point that if I want to order wine, I must be prepared to spend over $60 a head in NYC.

Wow, I totally agree. if two of us are dining out, one bottle of wine adds more than a third to the total bill. I try not to let it bug me but I do resent paying 3-4 times more for a so-so bottle and won't pay top dollar for a wine that's perhaps $15-25 in the wine store and is priced between $50-75 in the resto.

A wine dealer told me that when wine is sold by the glass in a restaurant, it's priced so that the first glass sold pays for the  total cost of the wine and the rest is profit so that if a glass is, say, $9, that's what they paid for the bottle.  Not bad.

[tommy]

That day -- thanks to all those $10 Merlot drinkers out there -- has likely come and gone.

bad merlot drinkers!  bad *bad* merlot drinkers!

[Beachfan]

[Go to Babbo or Lupa and see some miracles performed at the low end with Italian wines.  At Lupa, Falesco Vitiano for $21.  ]

I would hardly describe paying $21 for a bottle of Falesco Vitiano a miracle, except of course if you are Mario Batali.

I seem to recall an age when you could order a bottle of house wine (in an moderately priced restaurant) and get a decent table wine for $10.  That day -- thanks to all those $10 Merlot drinkers out there -- has likely come and gone.

It's getting to the point that if I want to order wine, I must be prepared to spend over $60 a head in NYC.

Personally, I think any successful NYC restaurant giving a delicious wine option for $21 is a miracle.  So what if it's triple retail.  It's $21.  Most restaurants are $12 for a glass of red I can't tolerate.

If you can name me two other instances of delicious wine for $21 or so at restaurants that are both great and packed, I will agree it's not a big deal.  Until then, praise Bacchus.

[netrover]

Wine experts, please don't flame over this, but I need help in finding an inexpensive red wine that gives at least the semblance of satisfaction. I don't have a lot of discretionary funds to blow on wine. Almost every evening I wind down the day with red wine, currently a $6 Chianti (Livingston brand, 1.5 liters). It actually tastes ok to me, but it goes down like lemonade. Consequently, I drink too much too fast. Now, if I could find a wine for twice the price, but I would drink half as much due to its being richer and more satisfying, I would definitely go for it.

[Ron Johnson]

You drink 1.5 liters of cheap Chianti every night after work?  Wow, I guess that does go down like lemonade.

Upgrade to $12 Cote du Rhone.  It will be much better and you will cut your consumption in half because most come in 750's.  

Look for any imported by Kermit Lynch, Eric Solomon, Peter Weygandt, or Robert Kacher.

[netrover]

Thanks, Ron. But no, I didn't say I drink 1.5 liters every night. I said that's the size of the bottle!

[Wilfrid]

In my wayward days, I once bought a wine box, with the idea that, since it allegedly kept the wine fresh for several days, I would have a glass now and then and thereby cut my consumption.

Later that evening, the box was empty and I was unwell.  Nice theory, netrover!

[Bux]

If you can name me two other instances of delicious wine for $21 or so at restaurants that are both great and packed, I will agree it's not a big deal.  Until then, praise Bacchus.

Let's keep it a big deal. I've been drinking a Jurancon sec at Eleven Madison Park that goes for $21 at the restaurant. I've been looking all over town for it in liquor stores assuming it can't go from more than ten bucks. I finally found it, but it was retail priced in the mid high teens. Find me one more and it's still a big deal.

[Beachfan]

Wine experts, please don't flame over this, but I need help in finding an inexpensive red wine that gives at least the semblance of satisfaction.

I agree with the Cote du Rhone recommendations.  Also try Falesco Vitiano.  Should be $8 or so.  Even Rosemount Shiraz if you are at a place with almost zero selection (about $11) would be a big step up from jug wine.

[tommy]

a zin such as ravenswood would be a step in the right direction.

[Wilfrid]

Or you could probably find a Crianza Rioja (one step down from a Riserva) at around that price.

[Rail Paul]

I've been drinking a Jurancon sec at Eleven Madison Park that goes for $21 at the restaurant. I've been looking all over town for it in liquor stores assuming it can't go from more than ten bucks. I finally found it, but it was retail priced in the mid high teens. Find me one more and it's still a big deal.

Bux -

you may also be a victim of  limited distribution. If the wine is offered thru few retailers, the retailers may be jacking up their margins. Few choices, higher prices.  Perhaps the distributor could advise where else the wine could be found.

Paul

[Billy D]

FYI the the Falesco Vitiano sold for $21/btl at Lupa wholesales for $7/btl.  At a 200% mark up is lupa still so generous?

[ProfDave]

I agree that a nice zin should do the trick.  My current favorite (especially for the price, $10) is Rancho Zabaco, Dancing Bull.  Very lively.

[Beachfan]

FYI the the Falesco Vitiano sold for $21/btl at Lupa wholesales for $7/btl.  At a 200% mark up is lupa still so generous?

Yes.  I'm still waiting for those who think a $21 bottle is expensive to show me a fine restaurant with a better wine for less.

Most places mark up their inexpensive wine much more  than 200%.