wine detective...sort of

[smx1313]

Howdy all.

I was recommended to this site by the folks over @ OTWA.

I am a resercher for a Brooklyn NY Antique/Junque shop.

Everyday my boss come in with a box of stuff/trash/treasure and says "see what you can find out about this".

I can be a very interesting job...if you are a research geek.

I'm hoping that you folks here can help do a little dectective work.

I have a few old bottles of wine from an estate sale, I believe these were stored in a closet.

I've done 'net searches for them and/or the company but no luck.

Whattya say?

Want to play dective?

Here's the 1st one.

1962 Chateau La Croix De Pez

Here's what I know.

It can from the estate of a music writer. There is a sticker on the neck saying "In celebration of the first 10 years of A&M records 1962-1972"

It's imported by Anglo American wines Int. Los Angeles, Ca.

It's still in the original gift box with packing material.

It's clean, no apparent leakage or evaporating.

Think it's still good?

Please and Thank you.

Scott

[Rebel Rose]

There was a Jerry La Croix that recorded blues and rock back in the fifties and sixties under several labels. The wine may be a local production from a friend's backyard vineyard. ::shrug?::

The import thing throws me, though. Is there a back label? Can you post a photo?

Edited to say that I am not that old that I would remember!

[winesonoma]

Howdy all.

I was recommended to this site by the folks over @ OTWA.

I am a resercher for a Brooklyn NY Antique/Junque shop.

Everyday my boss come in with a box of stuff/trash/treasure and says "see what you can find out about this".

I can be a very interesting job...if you are a research geek.

I'm hoping that you folks here can help do a little dectective work.

I have a few old bottles of wine from an estate sale, I believe these were stored in a closet.

I've done 'net searches for them and/or the company but no luck.

Whattya say?

Want to play dective?

Here's the 1st one.

1962 Chateau La Croix De Pez

Here's what I know.

It can from the estate of a music writer. There is a sticker on the neck saying "In celebration of the first 10 years of A&M records 1962-1972"

It's imported by Anglo American wines Int. Los Angeles, Ca.

It's still in the original gift box with packing material.

It's clean, no apparent leakage or evaporating.

Think it's still good?

Please and Thank you.

Scott

←

Sounds like a promotional bottle given out for the anniversary. Like here's yer Christmas present at the office party. Ask A&M Records when they gave it out.

[smx1313]

Hi,

No back label.

Here' some more info from the front.

"Monsieur GUYONNEAU Prorietaire a SAINT-ESTEPHE (GIRONDE)

I don't think it's that blues guy...this label is french.

[smx1313]

Sounds like a promotional bottle given out for the anniversary. Like here's yer Christmas present at the office party. Ask A&M Records when they gave it out.

It's that....I'm just trying to get info on the wine....good stuff? Table wine? Rot gut?

[MsMelkor]

Here's what I found - is this it?

[jackal10]

There is Ch. Ormes de Pez (Grand Bourgeois) and there is Ch. De Pez (Bourggeois Superior), both St Estephe. La Croix may be a second wine from one of these.

1961 was a wonderful year. 1962 wasn't quite as good, but still excellent.

If the level of the wine is the bottle is still high, as you say, it should drink well, if fading a little. Comparable wines are on offer for around $50, for example via the wine-searcher site.

[Rebel Rose]

Tipping hat to Ms Melkor and jackal10.

Did you notice this?

Average age of the vines : 30 years.

Let's see, that would be . . . wait . . . running out of fingers . . .

Old vines plus replants, probably.

[jrufusj]

None of the maps of St. Estephe that I have show La Croix de Pez, so I can't speak to its specific situation within the commune.

As of the late '80s, the wine was being bottled by a cooperative. The main cooperative label was Marquis de St. Estephe. La Croix de Pez was one of the properties that was vinified, bottled, and labeled separately from the general cooperative crush. Don't know if that was the case in 1962, but I would find it surprising if they were estate bottling in '62 and later went to the cooperative.

I don't know how much you know about wine in general (or care to know for your research), but if you would like background on where St. Estephe is or what that would mean to the wine, I'm sure there are hundreds on here who would love to enlighten you, so just ask.

As Jackal10 noted, '62 was somewhat overshadowed by '61, but was a strong vintage (and had the largest production of the '50s and '60s). The wines were more classically structured and smaller than the wines of '61, but have aged gracefully when well made and well kept. Good acids have greatly contributed to this longevity.

The question may be moot, however. You note that the bottle was stored in a closet. Nothing survives 33 years in a closet very well -- and particularly not a minor wine, no matter how well made.

Hope this helps and sorry for the pessimism.

Jim

[ctgm]

I would have thought that the 1962 from a property of this stature would be well past its best to drink but only pulling the cork would tell.

Edited November 12, 2004 by ctgm (log)

[ctgm]

Done a little looking into this and am fairl sure that it is the 2nd wine of Ch. de Pez. Taking that into consideration I would definitely say that it would be past it as 2nd wines by their nature are not supposed to age as well as the 1st wine (with a few ntoable exceptions).

[bleudauvergne]

What's the second bottle? This is very exciting.

[jrufusj]

Done a little looking into this and am fairl sure that it is the 2nd wine of Ch. de Pez. Taking that into consideration I would definitely say that it would be past it as 2nd wines by their nature are not supposed to age as well as the 1st wine (with a few ntoable exceptions).

←

I could be wrong (happens all too often), but I am pretty sure this is not the second wine of de Pez.

(1) The second wine movement (with some of the notable exceptions to which you refer above) is really a phenomenon of the Peynaud focus on yields, selection, and concentration. Hard to imagine a cru bourgeois superieur like de Pez bottling a second wine in 1962. (Even though de Pez really is of classed growth quality.)

(2) As a matter of fact, at least during the late '80s/early '90s, de Pez had no second wine. I can't imagine that they used to have a second, but loosened their selection or began selling off the fruit to the cooperative or negociants.

(3) The link MsMelkor found and pointed to indicates only 3% CF in the blend for La Croix de Pez. Ch. de Pez has traditionally used a much higher percentage.

It is possible that de Pez sold less select fruit to the Marquis de St. Estephe cooperative and that was bottled under the La Croix de Pez name.

In any case, whatever the source of the fruit, I think all can agree that this -- (a) cooperative bottled or (b) second wine of a cru bourgeois -- has next to zero chance of being alive today, particularly after being imprisoned in a closet for over 30 years.

Jim

[smx1313]

Thanks MsMelkor, but that ain't it.

Thanks to everybody for your help. I'm not realy into wines, but I love the hunting down of info...guess that's how I got this job.

BTW, I did try wine-search before I found this site. There was nothing on this bottle there.

Want to try another bottle?

Chatteau La Coste Red Table Wine 1972

Bordonado

Top of label says:

Cotequx d'Aix en Provence

Vin delimite De Qualite Superieure

release the hounds!

Thanks..this is kinda fun.

[Rebel Rose]

You've come to the right place. Now we need a name for our international intel.

[dlc]

Chateau La Coste was the home of the Marquis de Sade and it was from here he went to prison. His supposed last words as departing were "I will return, take care of the castle". It was also owned for a time by Pierre Cardin. You can find information on the present owners and winemaker here. I think the present owners bought the properties in the 60's.

[smx1313]

Chateau La Coste was the home of the Marquis de Sade and it was from here he went to prison.  His supposed last words as departing were "I will return, take care of the castle".  It was also owned for a time by Pierre Cardin.  You can find information on the present owners and winemaker here.  I think the present owners bought the properties in the 60's.

←

Holy cow! That's amazing.

See, that's the kind of info I love to dig up.