daSto

[DonRocks]

This has to be one of the most thought provoking threads I have seen in a long time.  I have started to post a half-dozen times but have held back.

That's why I haven't locked it.

It's important to remember that there are people - yes, actual people - posting on this thread, and that everything you say here, you should be ready, willing, able to say face-to-face over a cup of MooLatte.

Gillian is not yet here to weigh in (I just now remembered that when I was young, I was friends with a Korean child named Way Yin), and it might be in keeping with the noble spirit of combat if we wait for her to arrive at the duel before drawing and firing.

But be prepared to be disarmed.

Rocks.

[Gillian Clark]

Todd hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately there was really nothing behind the name, or perhaps subconsciously. Here is the funny part for all the over-thinking on this thread.....it was the first thing that came to us, and it seemed to fit.

As far as the Tom Sietsema letter and Candi Saigon article, which seems to keep coming up, I'm impressed at the general lack of understanding of the press. Candi Saigon made me a cartoon to set the record straight. And Tom didn't print my whole letter. My customers know who I am, and those of you that want to believe that I'm a raging bitch lunatic that won't change my food you'll probably never come here and see what I'm really like. But the customers that live in this neighborhood, who live in Centerville, Gaithersburg, Rockville, and Alexandria and eat at Colorado Kitchen 4 and 5 times a week know who I am. And the funny thing...they call me "Chef".

See you all Monday,

Chef

[Turtleboy]

So will there be takeout at dasto? Because you know the community needs it!

(just kidding). ;)

[Busboy]

Earlier this year, someone called us "hipster foodies". 

Now we're "politically correct foodies".

What's next?

Uneducated, uninsured foodies

Thin-skinned, high strung foodies.

[morela]

I don't find it condescending, personally.

And I'm not sure hostility is the right word to describe the response to this. Shrill, maybe. A certain kind of shrillness -- evocative of a certain class and age and demographic.

Nor do I see what's "offensive." What is offensive, to me, is people who might talk a good, strong game where matters of class and race are concerned but who don't back it up. Who don't venture beyond the limitations of their own neighborhoods. Who presume that it is possible to speak for a greater good, to speak for everyone.

I think the name is sly and funny and rich in association. And sure -- there's a lot of daring behind it. It's tailor-made to stir debate.

What, I wonder, is the worry, though?

Is it that she's "degrading" herself, as whites are forever suggesting that blacks who utter the word "nigger" are degrading themselves? That she's being too "irreverent" -- because, of course, matters of race can be discussed only in the most reverent and sober of terms?

I suspect that some of us are troubled by this because the name is a bold assertion of a kind of blackness that, aside from some videos and some TV shows --  easily dismissed by the elite class, which, of course, doesn't watch TV anyway -- is rarely seen in public life in this post-Integration age. It's not sanitized for white sensibilities. Because, well -- it's not FOR whites. And, well -- everything but everything else IS.

I think it's awfully dangerous to point the finger and shout, pathology!, at something that -- as I see it -- is in no way symptomatic of depravity or hopelessness or shamefulness but is, on the contrary, a product of cultural richness and hearty good humor.

Tood, I found your post hard to get though (sort of like your columns [alert: JOKE]). But you make ALOT of assumptions. Are you projecting?

DC Murk, it's Todd. Okay? Okay! Nice Car!

Back to da Sto...and nice avatar, Minister.

Edited August 1, 2004 by morela (log)

[DCMark]

Ms. Clark:

With the wisdom of a weekend between me and this post I would like to say good luck with your new store. Yes, the name rubbed me the wrong way but I sincerely hope it suceeds.

[jmc8y]

Todd hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately there was really nothing behind the name, or perhaps subconsciously. Here is the funny part for all the over-thinking on this thread.....it was the first thing that came to us, and it seemed to fit.

As far as the Tom Sietsema letter and Candi Saigon article, which seems to keep coming up, I'm impressed at the general lack of understanding of the press. Candi Saigon made me a cartoon to set the record straight. And Tom didn't print my whole letter. My customers know who I am, and those of you that want to believe that I'm a raging bitch lunatic that won't change my food you'll probably never come here and see what I'm really like. But the customers that live in this neighborhood, who live in Centerville, Gaithersburg, Rockville, and Alexandria and eat at Colorado Kitchen 4 and 5 times a week know who I am. And the funny thing...they call me "Chef".

See you all Monday,

Chef

Chef,

I like dasto as a name, i think it's funny. and if i were a chef, i'd probably be very sensitive to people making requests that changed the way i had designed the dish, not to mention people ordering well-done meat. heck, it pisses me seeing people do that as a customer.

i only meant to remark that your note came off as a bit agressive, and that probably doesn't help things.

[Jason Perlow]

Looks like the Post picked up on this thread...

[DCMark]

Gillian:

Please send my commission checks monthly from the gross receipts of the store. This little post has bought you some incredible publicity. Congrats!

PS: We ALL (Chef included) look bad in that article.

[DonRocks]

For first-time readers of this thread, here are two followup threads, which should be read in order:

A Chat with Gillian Clark

EGullet Outing at Colorado Kitchen

And then here is the general discussion thread on Colorado Kitchen.

If this is your first time on eGullet, welcome to the D.C. & DelMarVa Forum. Please come back as often as you'd like - the conversation is lively, and there is much useful information to be found here about the local restaurant and food scene. We're currently hosting A Chat with John Wabeck of Firefly restaurant.

You don't need to register to view the postings, but why don't you go ahead so you can join in and share your opinions? Simply click on "Register" up on the top-left of this screen, and follow the instructions. It's free, it's easy, and who knows? Maybe one day you'll be famous. At the minimum, your viewpoints will certainly be welcome here, and we look forward to having you.

Cheers!

Rocks.

[Al_Dente]

PS: We ALL (Chef included) look bad in that article.

How does Chef look bad?

[WoodleyGrrl]

PS: We ALL (Chef included) look bad in that article.

How does Chef look bad?

Yeah, I think the Chef comes off really well.

Certain posters look pretty silly, though

[hjshorter]

I think Marc Fisher reduced the discussion to "foodie snobs" vs. "courageous chef." I'm curious whether he attempted to contact the eGullet posters that he quoted?

[Busboy]

PS: We ALL (Chef included) look bad in that article.

How does Chef look bad?

Yeah, I think the Chef comes off really well.

Certain posters look pretty silly, though

I n the original thread she came off as thin-skinned, shrill and quite as eager to stereotype as anyone else on the thread.

" a bunch of over-educated white people... a small group of snooty white people attempting to be politically correct foodies... Where DOES all this hostility come from anyway? What offends me are people that have never darkened my door, yet see fit to judge me and my store..."

Until DonRocks convened the peace parlay I thought she had hurt her case, even though I agreed with her aboujt the name. Playing the race card sucks whoever's doing it.

On the other hand, this is all old news.

Edited August 10, 2004 by Busboy (log)

[DCMark]

PS: We ALL (Chef included) look bad in that article.

How does Chef look bad?

Yeah, I think the Chef comes off really well.

Certain posters look pretty silly, though

I n the original thread she came off as thin-skinned, shrill and quite as eager to stereotype as anyone else on the thread.

" a bunch of over-educated white people... a small group of snooty white people attempting to be politically correct foodies... Where DOES all this hostility come from anyway? What offends me are people that have never darkened my door, yet see fit to judge me and my store..."

Until DonRocks convened the peace parlay I thought she had hurt her case, even though I agreed with her aboujt the name. Playing the race card sucks whoever's doing it.

On the other hand, this is all old news.

Al Dente this is what I meant. I have not read the other posts yet work has been overwhelming recently.

Personally, I was someone regretful of what I said and I tried to make an apology to her. However, to see this in the paper is....well I guess its not exactly what I expected. Of course this site is public but perhaps we get fooled into thinking we are a private group of friends whose exchanges won't be put in the Post! I am expected hate mail any minute (really).

[morela]

Everyone looks like themselves if you ask me...

Not so bad, not so good. But Chef doesn't look bad, DCMurk.

[JPW]

I think Marc Fisher reduced the discussion to "foodie snobs" vs. "courageous chef." I'm curious whether he attempted to contact the eGullet posters that he quoted?

I would assume that if he had, they would have mentioned it.

Well Marc? You obviously have lurked here at least once.

[Nadya]

This indeed raises all kinds of questions about public vs. private discourse, bias and journalistic integrity. If he were writing about a discussion that occurred in real life and not online, would he be expected to contact the people in question to clarify, comment or otherwise explain what they said? This leads me to believe we need to open a new sticky-note type thread "To Members of the Media Wishing to Quote This Forum".

[mnebergall]

Is there anything in the user agreement that touches on the media issue?

[DCMark]

Is there anything in the user agreement that touches on the media issue?

Good point. This site has very stringent policies. However, Fisher could have read the posts without registering.

Don, if he did register, is this something you are comfortable with.

Having finally read the 'Chat with the Chef' I strongly do believe the Post article makes her look angry. Her chat shows her as a smart, gracious and committed woman which is clearly what she is. I think the latter is a better one for the public to read.

[mnebergall]

Is there anything in the user agreement that touches on the media issue?

Good point. This site has very stringent policies. However, Fisher could have read the posts without registering.

Don, if he did register, is this something you are comfortable with.

Having finally read the 'Chat with the Chef' I strongly do believe the Post article makes her look angry. Her chat shows her as a smart, gracious and committed woman which is clearly what she is. I think the latter is a better one for the public to read.

Perhaps the system needs to be changed so that anyone who reads eGullet but chooses not to register, still has to agree to be bound by the terms of the user agreement. For some reason, I thought that was the way it worked already.

[MCJB2]

Chef came across fine in the article, and she hit the nail on the head with this one:

"White people think they're supposed to have this reaction in defense of the black community," the chef says. "But the people who say 'da sto' don't see anything wrong with that. And the white people who criticize this are saying that there is something bad about saying it that way."

And it's ridiculous to criticize her for "playing the race card" when race obviously plays a large part in people's perceptions, whether they realize it or not.

[mnebergall]

Given the press interest in this thread, I would be foolish to comment on the substance.

[Al_Dente]

Chef came across fine in the article, and she hit the nail on the head with this one:

"White people think they're supposed to have this reaction in defense of the black community," the chef says. "But the people who say 'da sto' don't see anything wrong with that. And the white people who criticize this are saying that there is something bad about saying it that way."

And it's ridiculous to criticize her for "playing the race card" when race obviously plays a large part in people's perceptions, whether they realize it or not.

Well put-- I agree.

Wow, it's getting crowded in here.

[Busboy]

Chef came across fine in the article, and she hit the nail on the head with this one:

"White people think they're supposed to have this reaction in defense of the black community," the chef says. "But the people who say 'da sto' don't see anything wrong with that. And the white people who criticize this are saying that there is something bad about saying it that way."

And it's ridiculous to criticize her for "playing the race card" when race obviously plays a large part in people's perceptions, whether they realize it or not.

I was referring to her original post on the thread, not the quote here. Admitting that race affects perception is constructive, dismissing people's opinions because of race, is not.

At any rate, it will be more helpful to parse Chef's various notes and messages over a fine meal at her restaurant, when good food can lead us all to common ground.

Edited August 10, 2004 by Busboy (log)