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blended scotch for rob roys

mongo_jones

By mongo_jones
in Spirits & Cocktails

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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as mike points out after 2 stiff examples of each none of us is likely to care or be able to tell.

but

i've only ever had manhattans with bourbon (never realized there was a point of view that defines it via rye) and i can certainly tell the difference between bourbon + vermouth and scotch + vermouth.

cdh, this may be a topic for a different thread (and our host should feel free to split it if she agrees) but i've always thought manhattan and rob roy classification broke down like so:

with sweet vermouth only--classic

with dry vermouth only--dry

with dry and sweet in equal portions--perfect

are the latter two considered corruptions by purists? or are they co-terminous?

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mike k

mike k

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I don't know anything about the coterminal velocity of a rob roy, but I'd like to find it. Actually, I think I did reach it once, but I didn't remember anything about it the next day and my head hurt a lot.

Anyway, I agree with mongo's dry/sweet/perfect definition, and I certainly agree that I can tell the difference between scotch and bourbon in them. I like scotch better. Of the scotches I drink, I generally like Dewers in it (though I haven't tried all those mentioned here). To me, Canadian whiskey falls between Scotch and American whiskeys in its flavor profile. I think it's pretty optimal for the sweet vermouth/bitters combo, whatever you call it.

Where's Dale DeGroff when you need him?

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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Anyway, I agree with mongo's dry/sweet/perfect definition

mike, you're clearly a perceptive man with refined tastes. perhaps we might even think about a beer at the southern sun at some point. not actually go there together to drink beer--let's not rush things--but just think about it.

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KatieLoeb

KatieLoeb

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Mongo:

I too, agree with your definitions for vermouth proportions. At least that's how I learned them.

For what it's worth, the Famous Grouse was the well scotch back when I was purchasing for the Striped Bass, and we certainly had a pretty discerning clientele. From what I can tell, the Grouse and Cutty Sark are about the same price ($19.99 in PA), so I'd certainly give the Grouse a looksee before heading for anything as old school as Cutty. Cutty sort of reminds me of pathetic old alcoholic men in divey bars. Don't know why, but I can't shake that mental image.

Other brands besides the aforementioned Ballantine's that are less damaging to the wallet, but that I'm not personally familiar with are John Barr or Glen Salen, both of which are in the mid teens price-wise.

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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Cutty sort of reminds me of pathetic old alcoholic men in divey bars.

and just what is it that you have against us?

well, you people have sold me on famous grouse. now, if the boulder establishments don't carry it i'll have to take it out on mike k.

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KatieLoeb

KatieLoeb

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Cutty sort of reminds me of pathetic old alcoholic men in divey bars.

and just what is it that you have against us?

:laugh:

My pitching arm seems to be in fine form today.

Another underhand lob? :biggrin:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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Rien

Rien

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I'll cast the umpteenth vote for Famous Grouse ... not just for Rob Roy's, but any drink that calls for blended Scotch.

Someone mentioned John Barr. They're very good for the price but, in my opinion, have too strong of a smoke flavor to work well in most mixed drinks. Famous Grouse's smoke flavors are very restrained. Others may disagree, but that's something I look for in a scotch for mixing.

rien

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halland

halland

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With regard to the vermouths: isnt the red vermouth the sweet and white vermouth dry, or do I need to spend more time in this section of my liquor store. Is there a dry red vermouth?

H

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beans

beans

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With regard to the vermouths: isnt the red vermouth the sweet and white vermouth dry, or do I need to spend more time in this section of my liquor store. Is there a dry red vermouth?

H

Sweet vermouth can be either white or red, however dry vermouth is white.

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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With regard to the vermouths: isnt the red vermouth the sweet and white vermouth dry, or do I need to spend more time in this section of my liquor store.  Is there a dry red vermouth?

H

Sweet vermouth can be either white or red, however dry vermouth is white.

yes, i've had sweet "white" vermouth as an aperitif in various european countries--the red version seems more popular in the u.s. i have to say that from an aesthetic standpoint i prefer red vermouth in a manhattan or rob roy--can't imagine red vermouth in a perfect martini, however.

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mike k

mike k

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can't imagine red vermouth in a perfect martini, however.

Are you saying "perfect martini" as in gin + dry vermouth + sweet vermouth like a perfect rob roy? That sounds 'orrible. Hold on, I'll go try one...

...well, it's not so bad, but it's no improvement on the standard either. Do you actually drink such a thing?

btw, I thought about going to the Southern Sun as you suggested. It was ok. We ended up back at my place and got ripped and made curry. That's all I remember. I don't know how you got home but you were gone in the morning.

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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can't imagine red vermouth in a perfect martini, however.

Are you saying "perfect martini" as in gin + dry vermouth + sweet vermouth like a perfect rob roy? That sounds 'orrible. Hold on, I'll go try one...

...well, it's not so bad, but it's no improvement on the standard either. Do you actually drink such a thing?

i'm surprised more purists didn't jump on me for the mere suggestion of such a thing--must be because i'm so beloved around here. i can't say i ask for sweet vermouth in my martinis on a regular basis, but i have been known to.

btw, I thought about going to the Southern Sun as you suggested. It was ok. We ended up back at my place and got ripped and made curry. That's all I remember. I don't know how you got home but you were gone in the morning.

now, that's my kind of a night out. do you remember which of their beers you thought about drinking? i often think about their annapurna amber when i'm lonely--will be having several pints of it with lunch on saturday.

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mike k

mike k

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now, that's my kind of a night out. do you remember which of their beers you thought about drinking? i often think about their annapurna amber when i'm lonely--will be having several pints of it with lunch on saturday.

I'm sad to say that I do not know their brews well. Though I live but a mile away, we do not frequent this establishment. It's often crowded and waiting with the kids can be... painful. Second, their uber-democtratic policy of everyone-is-a-waiter-and-a-bartender-and-a-cook rears its ugly head in the obvious place. Not everyone should be a cook.

But we often speak of it. Perhaps we will rendezvous there some day. Perchance to dream...

(This Saturday we are going to the sculpture exhibit at the Denver Botanic Gardens and then lunch with the man who introduced me to Lagavulin, so all is not lost. Otherwise I would certainly be scouting the Sun for you!)

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slkinsey

slkinsey

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can't imagine red vermouth in a perfect martini, however.

Are you saying "perfect martini" as in gin + dry vermouth + sweet vermouth like a perfect rob roy? That sounds 'orrible. Hold on, I'll go try one...

...well, it's not so bad, but it's no improvement on the standard either. Do you actually drink such a thing?

i'm surprised more purists didn't jump on me for the mere suggestion of such a thing--must be because i'm so beloved around here. i can't say i ask for sweet vermouth in my martinis on a regular basis, but i have been known to.

There was an interesting article in the NY Times not too long ago about a drink that was, essentially, a "classic ratio" (i.e., real) martini made with sweet red vermouth in place of dry white. Sounded good, although I must admit I haven't tried it yet.

--

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  • 1 month later...
KatieLoeb

KatieLoeb

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There are cocktail glasses for all tastes and <ahem> appetites...

Looky Here

Mongo ought to be stumbling out of bed sometime tomorrow if he had one of those. :laugh:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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sadly, said rob roy has not yet been constructed. we have been entertaining guests who do not drink such things and so have curtailed cocktailing activities to margaritas (an excellent version with cointreau, peach liqueur and fresh lime juice,) and non-cocktailing activities to beer.

my head is currently ringing from consuming a number of java porters at the southern sun in boulder tonight. i was supposed to meet a colleague there (or so i'd thought)--turned out i'd set the rendezvous for the parent mountain sun (at the other end of town) and then gone to the wrong place. waited for a while, drank some java porters, read a book and called it a wash (no, i do not carry a cell-phone). i hope he did the same or else i will be in trouble on monday.

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mongo_jones

mongo_jones

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as i type, a perfect rob roy made with famous grouse sits next to my keyboard. 2 oz famous grouse, 3/4 oz dry vermouth, 3/4 oz sweet vermouth (being out of bianco i went with the rosso--so sue me). this is the shit. a very good whiskey for rob roys, and i thank all those who recommended it.

but this haig recommendation also intrigues me--mostly, because it has the word inexpensive associated with it.

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