Places that allow corkage

[Mark Sommelier]

My thoughts on this subject are well known and well documented. I get paid a salary to create and MAINTAIN the list and wine cellar - this means taking in 2-300 cases of wine a month, stocking the cellar and keeping the winelist current daily, plus training the staff. I get paid a commission for selling the wine. BYO negates half my income and the restaurant's profit. 'Nuff said.

Edited June 18, 2004 by Mark Sommelier (log)

[liamdc]

Sometimes, however, I will decide go to an establishment simply on the strength of its wine list, and then, of course I wouldn't be taking my own wine with me. Nectar anyone? (I'm not implying that the only reason to go to Nectar is the wine list, but another major attraction!)

The other nice thing about Nectar is the availability of each of their wines by the glass. Granted, it is a small, but a unique and well-balanced list.

I will admit that I am one who considers an establishment's wine list when making a dining decision. Not all of the time and not in all classes of places, but some of the time.

[liamdc]

My thoughts on this subject are well known and well documented. I get paid a salary to create and MAINTAIN the list and wine cellar - this means taking in 2-300 cases of wine a month, stocking the cellar and keeping the winelist current daily, plus training the staff. I get paid a commission for selling the wine. BYO negates half my income and the restaurant's profit. 'Nuff said.

I appreciate your point, Mark. I'm not willing to concede that BYOs shouldn't be an option for diners, but I understand the appropriateness of restaurants marking up their wines--to a point--to cover the cost of professional services such as you offer as a sommelier and to turn a reasonable profit from wine sales. And I understand the decision of some restaurants--particularly those with high-quality wine lists--to not allow corkage. It only really makes me frustrated at those times when I encounter an establishment with a mediocre wine list (and one with a limited or uninspiring by-the-glass selection) that marks its wine up 3 times or more.

But it is nice to have the option of bringing your own bottle of wine to a restaurant. For instance, during a recent trip to California, I picked up some craft wines and wines that are hard, if not impossible, to get in the DC area. Certainly, I could choose to drink all at home. But inevitably, there will be an occasion when I would want to enjoy them with a meal in a restaurant.

In corkage-friendly restaurants, it certainly behooves a customer to not abuse the privilege. Do *not* bring in a bottle of Reunite or a box of Turning Leaf. Do *not* bring in a wine that is on the restaurant's wine list or that closely resembles something that it offers. Do offer the sommelier or owner a taste. Do consider the service provided in opening your wine and bringing the appropriate glasses when tipping, especially if there is no corkage fee charged or the fee is minimal.

By the way, this all reminds me that Sara and I need to take up your invitation to visit Citronelle in the near future!

[otello]

Either a restaurant lets you bring wine, or it doesn't. If it does, IMO you can bring whatever wine you want, even if it's cheap or on the list.

[DonRocks]

Last night at The Caucus Room, our table had some of the best wine service I've seen in Washington. Everything about the way we were treated was just about perfect: for starters, there was our wonderful server Rachael, who was as cordial and friendly as she was professional and organized. We had multiple bottles, sometimes several going at once, and she showed a remarkable talent in pouring everything at the right time and keeping all the glasses in order. The stemware they use is first rate, the wines were decanted correctly (the head sommelier even came over and gently decanted an older Hermitage through a candle), and our entire party left thinking that the $15 corkage fee per bottle ($90 for a total of six bottles) was well-deserved, so much so that extra cash was left for our server on top of a 20% tip. Kudos to Rachael and The Caucus Room for a wonderful dining experience.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[otello]

Last night at The Caucus Room, our table had some of the best wine service I've seen in Washington. Everything about the way we were treated was just about perfect: for starters, there was our wonderful server Rachael, who was as cordial and friendly as she was professional and organized. We had multiple bottles, sometimes several going at once, and she showed a remarkable talent in pouring everything at the right time and keeping all the glasses in order. The stemware they use is first rate, the wines were decanted correctly (the head sommelier even came over and gently decanted an older Hermitage through a candle), and our entire party left thinking that the $15 corkage fee per bottle ($90 for a total of six bottles) was well-deserved, so much so that extra cash was left for our server on top of a 20% tip. Kudos to Rachael and The Caucus Room for a wonderful dining experience.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Great restaurant.

[HOOLIGAN]

Either a restaurant lets you bring wine, or it doesn't. If it does, IMO you can bring whatever wine you want, even if it's cheap or on the list.

1) If you actually had something from from my list I'd be mighty surprised. However it is uncalled for, rude, arrogant and just plain cheap to BYO if it is represented on a restaurant's list.

2) Bringing cheap wine makes me look cheap by association as soon as it's placed on that table for everone to see. But hey I'm not a bad guy, I once had a young couple who brought a bottle a bottle of Woodbridge in and when he handed it to me you could tell he was kinda embarassed. Now the ball's in my court and I can make him feel like an asshole and a peon, but that helps nobody. Instead I offered to decant the wine and brought out the big fat Reidel glasses that you can shove your fist into. They felt important and although it was a $5 bottle of swill the $15 corkage was well spent. If the guy had been jerk or had given me the slightest air of attitude he and the wine get tossed. The moral of the story is DON"T BE A DICK. But it flows both ways.

Food for Thought

Jarad

[sara]

I generally do agree. Not bringing something on a restaurant's wine list is a bit hard to do if the list isn't online, but yeah, I think it's ok to put the responsibility on the patron to call ahead and be sure. That said, I think it's ok to bring a varietal that the restaurant has plenty of on its wine list--e.g. bringing a Red Burgundy to Sushi Ko.

ps. Just got schooled by Don on the fact that Red Burgundy isn't a varietal, it's pinot noir. I stand corrected!

Edited June 20, 2004 by sara (log)

[otello]

Either a restaurant lets you bring wine, or it doesn't.  If it does, IMO you can bring whatever wine you want, even if it's cheap or on the list.

1) If you actually had something from from my list I'd be mighty surprised. However it is uncalled for, rude, arrogant and just plain cheap to BYO if it is represented on a restaurant's list.

2) Bringing cheap wine makes me look cheap by association as soon as it's placed on that table for everone to see. But hey I'm not a bad guy, I once had a young couple who brought a bottle a bottle of Woodbridge in and when he handed it to me you could tell he was kinda embarassed. Now the ball's in my court and I can make him feel like an asshole and a peon, but that helps nobody. Instead I offered to decant the wine and brought out the big fat Reidel glasses that you can shove your fist into. They felt important and although it was a $5 bottle of swill the $15 corkage was well spent. If the guy had been jerk or had given me the slightest air of attitude he and the wine get tossed. The moral of the story is DON"T BE A DICK. But it flows both ways.

Food for Thought

Jarad

If a customer calls a restaurant and they say you can bring your own wine and they do not tell me "unless the wine is cheap or on our list" or other diplomatic words to that effect, how is that the customer's fault? It would unacceptable and inappropriate to me if I called a restaurant and was not told that information until I got to the restaurant that my wine would not be permitted because it's on the restaurant's list or cheap (compared to what?)

I checked your website and didn't see a winelist, so I can't compare it to mine. But this issue obviously isn't about my winelist or yours, it's about communication and letting the customer know what a restaurant does or does not permit.

That said, I applaud the way you handled the situation with the young couple.

[DonRocks]

That said, I think it's ok to bring a varietal that the restaurant has plenty of on its wine list--e.g. bringing a Red Burgundy to Sushi Ko.

Tying this all together, about five years ago Daisuke Utagawa (owner of Sushi-Ko) came into the restaurant to have dinner with about six of us. We all brought wines to drink, and while Daisuke was looking them over before the meal, he looked at mine (a 1994 Hubert Lignier Clos de la Roche if anyone cares), and said, "ah yes, I have this on my list."

I began frantically looking for the trap-door-activation button so I could drop through the floor, but Daisuke honestly didn't care as I had no way of knowing. I began apologizing, he said it was no big deal, and that was the end of that.

An almost paradoxical rule of etiquette: it's a bad thing to bring a wine on the list, but unless you've seen the list, you don't know what not to bring.

I figure lugging a brown sack-o'-wine into a ritzy restaurant is gauche to begin with, so if you accidentally insult the proprietor by breaking this unwritten rule, you've only carried the act of utter disgrace and self-debasement one small step further.

In bad taste as always,

Rocks.

P.S. Question for Mr. Slipp: the 1982 La Mission Haut-Brion at The Caucus Room last night was over $800 a bottle, and seemingly every single wine on the list was triple retail. Not triple wholesale, but triple retail. Had one of us brought that 82 La Mission in, not knowing that it was on the list, would it still qualify as being rude, arrogant and cheap? What if someone knew it was on the list but brought it anyway (and feigned ignorance)? Mr. Slater? Mr. Wabeck? Do you have any opinions on this?

And after all these hundreds of meals, after knowing dozens of people in the industry, I still don't know what I'm "supposed" to tip for wine. I'm certain there is a conspiracy amongst restauranteurs to keep this as vague and nebulous as possible in order to maximize cash flow and "walking-around money." I hope that when you guys get reincarnated, it's in a roach-infested loft sitting atop a McDonald's.

[tjaehnigen]

A bunch of wine-o friends of my an I are looking for the next place to hit for an evening of good dining and that allows BYOW with reasonable (no more than $20) corkage.

Any suggestions on what should be on my short list?

[Mark Sommelier]

A bunch of wine-o friends of my an I are looking for the next place to hit for an evening of good dining and that allows BYOW with reasonable (no more than $20) corkage.

Any suggestions on what should be on my short list?

New Big Wong. Corkage is free.

[maureen]

"In corkage-friendly restaurants, it certainly behooves a customer to not abuse the privilege. Do *not* bring in a bottle of Reunite or a box of Turning Leaf. Do *not* bring in a wine that is on the restaurant's wine list or that closely resembles something that it offers. Do offer the sommelier or owner a taste. Do consider the service provided in opening your wine and bringing the appropriate glasses when tipping, especially if there is no corkage fee charged or the fee is minimal."

Yes.

I carry in to several restaurants in DC - I always take older wine (10-15 year old stuff at least), I always offer tastes to the pourer and the chef, and I always tip as if I'd bought some wine - i.e., I assume a reasonable bar bill in calculating the tip. The restaurants where I regularly carry in seem to be pleased with this behavior.

By the way, add the Tabard Inn to your BYOB list - although they have an excellent list there that is very fairly priced, they are friendly about corkage. Not sure about the fee (somehow I never have to pay it!) - I think $15 but don't hold me to it.

[HOOLIGAN]

P.S. Question for Mr. Slipp: the 1982 La Mission Haut-Brion at The Caucus Room last night was over $800 a bottle, and seemingly every single wine on the list was triple retail. Not triple wholesale, but triple retail. Had one of us brought that 82 La Mission in, not knowing that it was on the list, would it still qualify as being rude, arrogant and cheap? What if someone knew it was on the list but brought it anyway (and feigned ignorance)? Mr. Slater? Mr. Wabeck? Do you have any opinions on this?

The short answer is yes, it would still qualify as being rude, arrogant and cheap.

I'm not justifing their price gouging but but the etiquette should remain the same. So you can do one of three things:

1) Be a dink, play dumb and see if you can pull the wool over their eyes.

2) Be honest, tell them you think it's a rip off and you want to bring your own. (This probably won't get you far but you'll feel better for it.)

3) Vote with your wallet, realize it's just one of many a steak house and go to Ray's where you can drink 21 bottles of Muga Rioja and still have change left.

[JennyUptown]

I don't remember a ton from my Cornell days (they are kind of a blur actually), but one thing I'll never forget was the corkage lecture we received in Wines (Hotel Administration 430), a legitimate course run by the esteemed Hotel school.

The two rules were indeed:

Corkage is for special wines, not your garden variety California merlots that run $9 at the neighborhood liquor store.

Never bring a wine from the restaurant's list. When in doubt, call and ask.

[DonRocks]

The short answer is yes, it would still qualify as being rude, arrogant and cheap.

I'm not justifing their price gouging but but the etiquette should remain the same.

Why should the etiquette remain the same when someone price gouges?

If a car dealer is markin' it up by $5000 over sticker, do you honor their protocol, and "just go to another dealer?"

How many people remember Le Lion d'Or? It wasn't that long ago, and they were one of very few places I've ever seen that correctly priced their food vis-a-vis their wines: they charged an arm-and-a-leg for their food, but had an amazing, fairly priced wine list. People who asked to buy their wines to take home were politely told no, because the wines at these prices were meant to be enjoyed with the food, and not supposed to be some sort of commodity that you could "steal" and take home with you.

Why should I pay triple retail for a wine that I can open up and enjoy simply by walking down a flight of stairs in my own home? For "the privilege" of having it in this particular restaurant with this particular cuisine? I call bullshit. Charge double for the food, charge half for the wine, and stop making criminal profit on something that can be purchased at the liquor store down the road.

If I do one thing in this world, it's going to be for fine dining establishments to change their profit structure away from liquor, and towards the only two things thing that distinguish them from happy hour at Calvert-Woodley and MacArthur Liquors: their service and their food.

Yeah, I know: selection, inventory, pairing, pouring, glassware, blah blah blah. In precious few establishments, that's true, but in 95% of all restaurants, it isn't.

I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and that's the way it should be.

Rocks.

[sara]

The short answer is yes, it would still qualify as being rude, arrogant and cheap.

I'm not justifing their price gouging but but the etiquette should remain the same.

Why should the etiquette remain the same when someone price gouges?

If a car dealer is markin' it up by $5000 over sticker, do you honor their protocol, and "just go to another dealer?"

Why should I pay triple retail for a wine that I can open up and enjoy simply by walking down a flight of stairs in my own home? For "the privilege" of having it in this particular restaurant with this particular cuisine? I call bullshit. Charge double for the food, charge half for the wine, and stop making criminal profit on something that can be purchased at the liquor store down the road.

If I do one thing in this world, it's going to be for fine dining establishments to change their profit structure away from liquor, and towards the only two things thing that distinguish them from happy hour at Calvert-Woodley and MacArthur Liquors: their presentation and their food.

Yeah, I know: selection, inventory, pairing, pouring, glassware, blah blah blah. In precious few establishments, that's true, but in 95% of all restaurants, it isn't.

I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and that's the way it should be.

Rocks.

I completely agree with this. I thought what Mark was saying in an earlier post was interesting, that bringing wine to a restaurant reduces his income, reduces the restaurant's profit, etc. I hadn't thought through that. But another way to think about it is that essentially restaurants are running small wine stores, with sommeliers as the salespeople. Certainly it's their job to maintain a nice stock, serve the wine properly etc. But ultimately they are selling wine-- and why should I pay 3 times more to buy wine in a restaurant than at any other wine store? Sommeliers and restaurants do not make wine, they simply sell it. They do however make food, and can charge what they want--even though sometimes it's clear to anyone knowledgeable about ingredients that they are overcharging, we're still usually willing to buy it (i.e. a softshell entree at a restaurant with one crab often costs $20, but that same softshell costs $3-5 at the store), add some linguine and suddenly the dish is $20?

I think it's normal to be upset when one feels ripped off. Still, when you're in the restaurant it's up to you to behave well. Be pissed later and don't patronize the restaurant again.

How do restaurants such as Friday Saturday Sunday in Philly maintain a nice wine list with nothing marked up more than $10 over cost?

See list here: Fri Sat Sun

Sure, it's not as fabulous as the lists at Nectar or Citronelle--but how do they do it? They've been in business a long, long time, and in a city full of BYOs no less.

[Mark Sommelier]

Why should I pay triple retail for a wine that I can open up and enjoy simply by walking down a flight of stairs in my own home?  For "the privilege" of having it in this particular restaurant with this particular cuisine?  I call bullshit.  Charge double for the food, charge half for the wine, and stop making criminal profit on something that can be purchased at the liquor store down the road.

If I do one thing in this world, it's going to be for fine dining establishments to change their profit structure away from liquor, and towards the only two things thing that distinguish them from happy hour at Calvert-Woodley and MacArthur Liquors:  their service and their food. 

Yeah, I know:  selection, inventory, pairing, pouring, glassware, blah blah blah.  In precious few establishments, that's true, but in 95% of all restaurants, it isn't.

Rocks:

1) Triple retail is a stupid markup. Triple wholesale is more common. Liquor store wholesale prices are usually lower than most restaurant prices in DC. Interestingly enough, the Maryland State Supreme Court just struck down the law saying that everyone who purchases wine and liquor have to pay the same price. Distributors are free to make deals in Maryland (EXCLUDING MONTGOMERY COUNTY) like they can in DC.

2) You can say "blah blah blah" about the cost of carrying a large inventory and the cost of glasses and other items, but it is a real cost to the restaurateur.

3) Why does the restaurant get ragged about the markups? Why don't you bitch about the margins made by the distributor, supplier and importer as well? They all double the price along the way. This is why I prefer to deal directly with importers. Cut out as many middle-men as possible.

Edited June 23, 2004 by Mark Sommelier (log)

[DCMark]

How many people remember Le Lion d'Or?

Rocks.

I do! My parents loved that place and took me there when I was five or so.

[JennyUptown]

The Post on corkage at The Caucus Room.

[FunJohnny]

How many people remember Le Lion d'Or?

Rocks.

I do! My parents loved that place and took me there when I was five or so.

Lion d'Or -- now that was one of the original places when DC started acquiring some decent establishments for lobbyists to wine and dine the powerful c. 1970s. When things really started getting interesting I guess the owner(s) lost interest or couldn't keep up. I believe it closed in the mid-90s. I had a meal there once curteousy of a crusty old reporter who covered the Agency where I was then employed. Wasn't the Lion d'Or the orignal sponsor of the Bastille Day race?

Edited June 24, 2004 by FunJohnny (log)