Lespinasse (Closed)

[tommy]

But when the food is delivered in error and a guest is not present it is rude and obnoxious to start without them. And I am sorry that y ou feel otherwise.

and this is the point we're making. i hope bux sees this now. stupid or not, illogical or not, that's just the way it is. given this particular set of circumstances, as i understand them, (service effed up, food probably not warm enough to begin with, etc) there was really no other choice.

and yes, a thread devoted to discussing situations like this might be interesting.

[Wilfrid]

I'd also point out that - in my view at least - this service slip up was not the most interesting, important or noteworthy aspect of the evening. As I said some posts back, the meat entrees were coming up at a lower-than-desirable temperature in any case.

Bux, I'm not in the least offended by your postion - I think it even has some merit. Taking the world as it is, however, rather than as we'd like it to be, I find the idea of tucking into my nosh while someone to whom I've just been introduced has briefly left the table, unthinkable.

[cabrales]

It was incumbent upon the diners to collectively determine whether they wanted to adhere to formal etiquette and wait, or to adopt the practical solution of starting before the absent diner's return.

It was a French restaurant. French protocol, I believe, would have had you eating the food while it was hot.

It's a real burden to the kitchen if someone leaves the table at an inopportune moment, but it's the restaurant's responsibility, in a restaurant of this class, to see that the food is served when everyone is there ready to eat. I don't know when the diner left the table or why the servers were caught off guard and the service failure is apart from my comments on when diners should begin eating. There's no question in my mind that you eat when the food is served to you. If there's a delay in one dish, you eat as it arrives ...

I disagree that it would have been rude to start eating once you ageed to let the waiters place the food on the table ...

(Breach #6) I couldn't agree with Bux more. Yes, the kitchen and dining room teams at Lespinasse should have coordinated the placement of the dish with the female guest's departure. Note that in the US the practice, even at a restaurant at that level, is more mixed than at three or two-stars in France, say.

Moving on, once the dishes were set in front of the diners, it is not considered rude at an haute cuisine French restaurant of modern times to begin eating. While I have not encountered this problem frequently (given that I dine alone much of the time and separately that restuarants usually delay the placement of the dishes), I have experienced it at three-star levels and below on a very few occasions. The way I handled it at a three-star was to smile gently, looking at the waiter when the dish was presented (to signal I am reacting to the dining room team's error). Then I said in French something akin to: "Pardon me. I hope you don't mind that I begin without my dining companion. I'd like to sample the dish at the temperature the chef [note the reference to the chef] intended. I'm sure my dining companion wouldn't mind." This makes clear you recognized the restaurant's mistake, and you understand there is an argument you should have waited -- and yet you don't have to wait! The best of all possible worlds. In fact, the restaurant will then pay attention even more to your meal and you (leaving aside your dining companion, for now) will either be at least as well off, or even better off, than if the dish had not been presented in the dining companion's absence.

[tommy]

Moving on, once the dishes were set in front of the diners, it is not considered rude at an haute cuisine French restaurant of modern times to begin eating.

but you see, in our circle of friends, it *is* considered rude and inappropriate. and no matter how many times you, or bux, or a frenchman tells us otherwise, that isn't going to change.

got it?

ediot: chance? huh?

[Wilfrid]

Just to be clear, it is proper etiquette in Indian cafes in Kulala Lumpur to eat with your right hand and wipe your bum with your left.

Bux and Cabby's descriptions of etiquette in France are well-intentioned, but are only going to become relevant if someone contends that the etiquette is the same in New York. Relevant and wrong.

Doesn't anyone want to talk about the food?

[Liza]

I agree with Tommy as always. I think one should give more consideration regarding the missing dining companion than to the staff or the chef.

[lizziee]

I posted the following on the France board under Ducasse - an update. It describes a situation where 2 diners have their food and one has to wait. Note that I considered it a huge service error.

"3rd course--tian d' agneau a la Parisienne -

With this dish there occurred one of the worst service errors we have ever experienced in a Michelin 3 Star restaurant.

We ordered the dish--rose. For 2 people the lamb was perfectly done, but my husband's was overdone. We called over the waiter, showed him his meat, he apologized and took his dish away.

We decided to wait and not eat our lamb, until my husband had his, otherwise we would have been finished, drunk most of the red wine and he would have to eat alone.

About 10 minutes later, the waiter noticed we had not eaten our meat. He said, "You better eat or it will get cold." We said we will wait. Finally a captain came over and said, "I'll hold your dishes in the kitchen." I had visions of a heat lamp. When the 3 lamb plates were re-presented we were told by the Captain--the chef made you 3 new dishes. Considering the price, I would hope so.

After finally getting the lamb properly presented in front of all 3 of us--it was delicious - 5 perfect strips of rare lamb with an aubergine tian underneath, served with truffle de noir, parsley, basil and garlic."

We could have eaten our lamb dish, but as I stated my husband would be eating his alone. Also, we would have been drinking the red wine and my husband would have had to "nurse" his glass so as he could enjoy it fully with the lamb. I think, it is incumbent upon a restaurant of this caliber with a main dish price tag of $70 to serve 3 dishes, done correctly, at the same time.

I know this is not at all like the experience at Lespinasse where the foul-up was that the dishes NEVER should have been brought to the table at all. But, even in this case, why should my husband have to sit and watch us eat and then eat alone while we watch him eat?

Unlike Lespinasse, where the duck dish was poor to start, our lamb was indeed perfect.

[Wilfrid]

Voice of reason.

[Nockerl]

Moving on, once the dishes were set in front of the diners, it is not considered rude at an haute cuisine French restaurant of modern times to begin eating.

but you see, in our circle of friends, it *is* considered rude and inappropriate. and no matter how many times you, or bux, or a frenchman tells us otherwise, that isn't going to change.

got it?

ediot: chance? huh?

Here here. I very much agree. This is NOT, I repeat, NOT France.

(and being in a French restaurant is not excuse for poor manners)

[ngatti]

Lizziee, Thanks for your AD Paris reference. I knew you were reading here and was thinking of this and am glad you referenced it.

Nick

[g.johnson]

Implicit in Lizziee's post is that the rationale for waiting until everyone is served is that then everyone will finish eating at approximately the same time (unless I’m there as I can inhale a plateful in about 30 seconds). If one person begins eating late they will finish late and may feel obliged to rush.

[tommy]

Implicit in Lizziee's post is that the rationale for waiting until everyone is served is that then everyone will finish eating at approximately the same time (unless I’m there as I can inhale a plateful in about 30 seconds). If one person begins eating late they will finish late and may feel obliged to rush.

but if you don't start ahead of the other person, or people, then you won't get to sample the dish at the exact temperature that the chef recommends. so then what's in it for you?

[g.johnson]

Implicit in Lizziee's post is that the rationale for waiting until everyone is served is that then everyone will finish eating at approximately the same time (unless I’m there as I can inhale a plateful in about 30 seconds). If one person begins eating late they will finish late and may feel obliged to rush.

but if you don't start ahead of the other person, or people, then you won't get to sample the dish at the exact temperature that the chef recommends. so then what's in it for you?

The warm fuzzy glow of the righteous.

[Wilfrid]

The relative risk of receiving a dish in an upscale New York restaurant at a temperature recommended, or even envisaged, bythe chef, is sufficiently low that such considerations are - as m'learned friend Tommy would say - just typing.

[ngatti]

We've covered everything but the desserts.

Thoughts?

Then I'll sum up re room, uniforms and service confusion.

Nick

[Nockerl]

We've covered everything but the desserts.

Thoughts?

Then I'll sum up re room, uniforms and service confusion.

Nick

A pint of ben and Jerry's would have been better

[ngatti]

Patrice Caillot's pre-dessert. The Fruit soup (pineapple). with sorbet.

I though it not overly chilled with diced pineapple and an extraordinarily delicate tuile. The taste was clean and fresh. Not oloying. It worked for me.

It as well as the chocolate sampler were workmanlike. Nothing I hadn't seen before in some guise or other and nothing on the plate to cause a "wow!" factor.

I skipped the petit fours. Anything notable?

Nick

[lizziee]

Russ Parsons just posted this on the California board about the French Laundry. He was talking about palate fatigue and mentioning that a break, sometime during the meal, is a welcome respite.

"be sure to let the servers know the course before you plan to do this. i've been in the kitchen when a guest went to the bathroom just before a course went out and the entire parade of waiters for the table returned to the kitchen, the dishes were disassembled and then put back together with fresh sauces and garnishes when the diners were ready."

Quite a difference from Lespinasse!

[Wilfrid]

I can't remember the petits fours, although I certainly ate some. I would say there was nothing wrong with them.

[ngatti]

I can't remember the petits fours, although I certainly ate some.  I would say there was nothing wrong with them.

I believe the ladies got them (although my wife didn't recall them).

Well I guess most agree that the food, with the exception of two dishes and some of the garnishes, was lacking. Enough service lapses occurred: no cheese offer, polite refusel then later, reconsideration; "The duck under the cloche" incident etc...

The reservation was made for me by someone connected to the place. I had originally asked for a monday reservation for eight. I was told Lespinasse was closed on Monday, but that the liberty was taken to make it for eight people on a Tuesday evening and that Christian would be preparing a tasting menu for us.

I reconfirmed twice. Once a week out and once more on the day of. Once I got through (this a problem with the, IMO, ugly voice mail system) and spoke to someone, I was treated with enthusiasm and interest (the person who had made the res was pretty well known to the staff). The

second confirmation resulted in being told that people were looking forward to seeing me and the impression given that the dog was going to be put on for us. Nothing specific. Just an implication.

We lost two of our party due to illness about 1 and 1/2 hours before the res. The restaurant was called and informed immediatly. We arrived about 10 minutes late for our res (1st to arrive), as traffic in that evenings rainstorm was an absolute bear. Thirtyfive minutes to crawl across 54th street. The restaurant was called and informed again. Valet parking under the Lespinasse awning was Godsent and welcomed. My wife and I were welcomed with enthusiasm and our coats taken. I was chatted up about my friend and we were seated in a pretty empty dining room (about 1/4 full at 7:45).

My order for an Oban was taken and a few minutes later the bar waiter/captain returned with a drink menu, informing me that there was no Oban. He looked puzzled at my next request (Balvenie), So I took the drink menu and ordered a listed Glenmorangie neat, with water back. Pelligrino was ordered and brought. My drink arrived (sans water. I suppose he thought the sparkling water would suffice. It did but *he* didn't know that!). The rest of our party arrived a short while later with one more member dropping out due to an emergency. Not life threatening, but understandably serious enough to cancel. We are now a party of 5.

Menus were placed with us which I thought puzzling (prearranged Tasting menu???). A captain approaches and asks us if we are ready to order. We say yes and he asks us what we want? I mention the tasting menu that I thought had been set up for us. He obviously doesn't know about it and proceeds to confirm that the entire table will get the tasting menu. A wine list is brought and in a remindful tone I suggest that perhaps we'd like the wine pairing that might come with such a menu as there was no offer (I'm starting to get a bad feeling). No amuse and the meal commences.

The rest you know.

Someone said that we recieved a free cocktail. I couldn't discern from the check and if so, I don't think it's bad form for the staff to politely inform us of any "gifts". "Oh Mr. Gatti, you're a friend of so and so. Do let me buy a drink for the table." What would be wrong with that??

I don't think I would call the service warm and friendly by any stretch. In fact, as I said before, I think it was merely perfuntory. The color of the evening was a study in earth tones. Shades of brown , beige, and ochre dominated the room, the food, and the dining room service. I thought the room boring. Maybe because it was so empty.

Wines? Well, Nockerl is still waiting for that fax. I heard the assent and I saw his business card with the fax number pocketed.

My summation? Just another expensive hotel dining room. You need more than restroom attendants and valet parking. And what is it with those mickey mouse hotel name tags. I know that HR people in major chains (starwood/sheraton in this case) love this stuff, but in Lespinasse...really!

Thoughts/disagreements welcome.

I'm over it.

Nick

[tommy]

restroom attendants? oy. didn't this go out about 25 years ago? cross one more place off of my list. i just can't deal with that.

[Bux]

Just another expensive hotel dining room.

A nagging thought has been running in my mind all along. Is this a hotel staff answerable to the union steward and not the chef.

[Steve Klc]

Now you are beginning to understand some of the inherent problems of dining in a union hotel. Cooking with a mostly union staff can be even more problematic than service issues.

[Michael Laiskonis]

Patrice Caillot's pre-dessert...

Just to clarify and offer some news, Patrice has left and moved on to other things. Is his name still on the menu? When informed, the name of his replacement was not familiar to me, but is also a Frenchman.

Enjoyed reading this discussion. Lespinasse was on my "maybe" dining list last week as well... no longer disappointed that I couldn't squeeze it in!

[ngatti]

Yes, in large font on the bottom of the menu.

Nick