ADNY (Alain Ducasse @ Essex House)

[Schneier]

I didn't find a thread for ADNY reviews, so I'm starting one.

Bruce

*********

Karen has wanted to go to Alain Ducasse since it opened a few years ago. I was more ambivalent: the most expensive restaurant in New York, a Paris chef with a whole lot of celebrity taking New York by storm, all sorts of silly showmanship, and initial reviews that weren’t as fantastic as they should have been.

But it’s been a few years, and both the restaurant and I softened. I had a free Saturday night in New York, and Karen was coming with. So I made a reservation.

In summary, it was the most fun I’ve had in a top tier restaurant in a long time. The waitstaff was charming, friendly, and personable without being overbearing. The service, even through some slow spots at the end of the meal, absolutely sparkled. They suggested that one of us order a la carte when we both ordered the tasting menu--so we could try more dishes--even though the suggestion resulted in fewer courses overall and a cheaper bill. I’m so used to restaurants that require everyone at the table to order the tasting menu that I didn’t even ask. When we asked to split a wine paring, they offered to pour it in two different glasses.

We had entertaining little conversations with the staff throughout the dinner, including our query about whether “civet sauce” was really made from executed Chinese cats, and how Alain Ducasse New York compared with the Paris version. They gave us as many cheeses as we wanted, but not before informing us sadly, but with a twinkle, that we could only choose one. We got an extra dessert. We got lollypops. (Well, everyone got lollypops.)

The menu wasn’t large. There was a winter tasting menu. There was a black truffle tasting menu. If you ordered a la carte, there were three appetizers, three fish dishes, and four meat/poultry dishes to choose from. And six different desserts.

A bunch of years ago we ate at Alain Ducasse in Paris, and we had the black truffle menu. We also had the black and white truffle menu at the French Laundry last month. And frankly, at this point, we think truffle menus are silly, pretentious, and over-rated. So we chose the winter menu. And then three dishes from the a la carte side. And we ordered a single wine pairing to go with the winter menu.

(I can’t find my notes on the amuse bouches. We had a gougere, and then something else. But I can’t remember what it was, but I remember liking it.)

Winter Menu:

Course 1: “Winter vegetable ‘pot-au-feu’ style.” Delicious. A pile of carrots, squash, potatoes, and (I think) turnips in a rich and flavorful sauce, with some black truffle shavings on top. A perfect dish.

2001 Domaine Ferrer-Ribiere, “L’Empreinte du Temps,” Vielles Vignes, Vin du Pays Catalan, France. Pretty wine. Good match.

Course 2: “Hand made broccoli ravioli, served in a ‘gourmet clam’ jus, crushed lemon confit.” I really liked the medley of flavors, here. The ravioli was filled with what looked like egg yolk. The clam sauce had lots of little shrimp in it, and was surrounded by a lemon broccoli foam. And black pepper on top. The lemon flavor kind of got lost in the black pepper, but on reflection I think that’s a good thing. The lemon worked better as a back note.

2002 Abbazia Di Novacella, Kerner, Alto Adige, Italy. Okay wine. Light and interesting. I didn’t think it went with the food at all, though.

Course 3: “Wild sturgeon cooked ‘au plat,’ grapefruit/avocado/espelette pepper balsamic reduction.” One of the best courses of the night: fish topped with alternating slices of grapefruit and avocado. It was simple, and surprising and ideal. Delicious sauce, and lots of perfectly diced carrots, onion, and avocado. There’s someone in the kitchen who can dice things into absolutely square sixteenth-of-an-inch cubes. I wonder what he gets paid?

2001 Cru, “Clone 667,” Pinot Noir, North Fork of Long Island, New York. I thought this wine was too oaky, and too strong with the fish.

Course 4: “”Veal ‘Tournedos,’ melting potatoes, braised Boston lettuce, roasting jus.” What the description doesn’t say is that the Boston lettuce is stuffed with perfectly diced carrots, onions, and sweetbreads,” and then formed into perfectly round balls. Beautiful and delicious.

1998 Alion, “Ribera del Duero,” Spain. Best wine of the night. Complex but not overbearing, good match with the food.

That was the tasting menu. From the a la carte side, we had three courses.

Course 1: “’Vol au vent’ traditional, chicken quenelle/lobster/country ham, veloue sauce.” Think of a chicken and mushroom--several different mushrooms--stew served in a puff pastry. Very tasty, but this one had needless tableside prep. The puff pastry came on a plate, and the insides in a pot and on a portable stove. Silly, especially since the resultant dish wasn’t piping hot. In fact, if I had one complaint about the meal overall, it’s that the food didn’t come out of the kitchen as hot as I would have liked it.

Course 2: “Medallions of Maine lobster, served in a civet sauce.” The sauce is an onion and wine sauce, BTW. The sauce was delicious, and a perfect accompaniment to the lobster. And it came with perfectly round balls of Swiss chard stuffed with lobster. These looked like Brussels sprouts. There’s someone in the kitchen that can make perfectly round balls out of cooked leaves. I wonder what he gets paid?

Course 3: “Roasted suckling pig, tomato/Paris mushroom, spinach, truffle herb condiment.” Another beautiful and delicious dish. It was a layer cake: chopped mushrooms on the bottom, spinach in the middle, and slices of pork on top. And it came with an absolutely amazing baked apple stuffed with pig shoulder. We liked to think of it as the inversion of the classic apple-in-mouth pig. And we like a chef with a sense of humor about his food.

The winter menu came with a cheese course, which we split. The waitstaff was happy to give us an extra plate, and as many cheeses as we wanted to sample. We chose several strong soft cheeses like Forme d’Ambert, Pont l’Eveque and Epoisse. Everything was delicious, though the Epoisse was just a few days short of perfectly ripe.

And we both got our choice of dessert.

Dessert 1: “Sliced apple cooked “tartin,” vanilla ice cream.” The tart was a standard French preparation, and very good. The ice cream was a sandwich-like square below the tart, also very good.

Dessert 2: “Warm souflee of Ruby red grapefruit, sorbet and granite citrus zest.” Last year I ate dinner at Le Cirque. The person I was with ordered the grapefruit souffle, and it was delicious. This time I ordered it, and again it was delicious--a perfect souffle in citrus. It came with a scoop of grapefruit sorbet, which was just about as perfect as a sorbet could be.

2000 Bura, Plavac Mali, “Peljesac Peninsula, Croatia. Good dessert wine; nothing special.

After all that (and after what felt like a too-long wait: we get antsy at the end of a long meal) we got some chocolates, and then a slice of almond tart each, and then our choice of treats from the sweets trolly. And finally, at the door, in a gift bag, a wrapped brioche to eat the next morning.

It was a really good meal. Everything was perfectly prepared and perfectly presented. Nothing knocked my socks off, but nothing was a clunker, either. The wine paring wasn’t that impressive, though, and certainly not worth the price.

I would definitely go back.

Bruce

Edited January 21, 2004 by Schneier (log)

[Pan]

Thanks for the very detailed review, Bruce, and I'm glad you had such a great meal!

Here are some previous threads that I found by doing a search of threads in the New York forum with "Ducasse" in their titles. Not all of these threads started with reviews, but all contain reviews. I've posted the links in reverse-chronological order (based on the date of the last post, not the first post):

Dinner at Ducasse, Not perfect but pretty good

Dinner at Alain Ducasse, A fight against high expectations

Still Angry at Ducasse?

Ducasse Lunch, Member Input? Contrast with Dinner?

Edited January 21, 2004 by Pan (log)

[Fat Guy]

It's amazing how effective the media have been at inverting the public's expectations about ADNY. Hmm, let's see: the guy is one of the greatest chefs in history -- the heir apparent to Escoffier; his restaurant is the most expensive French restaurant in the US; therefore it must be . . . bad? It's always nice to hear a report from someone who has been able to see through the propaganda to realize that ADNY is as good a restaurant as America has ever seen. I'm only sorry you missed the first few years, Bruce!

[Schneier]

Here are some previous threads that I found by doing a search of threads in the New York forum with "Ducasse" in their titles.

I can't search for a string in the thread title. How do you do it?

Bruce

[Louisa Chu]

There’s someone in the kitchen who can dice things into absolutely square sixteenth-of-an-inch cubes.  I wonder what he gets paid?

There’s someone in the kitchen that can make perfectly round balls out of cooked leaves.  I wonder what he gets paid?

Speaking from ADPA - for my ADNY brethern -

Yes.

Not enough.

[jogoode]

I was hoping someone would start a thread on ADNY again. I'm thinking of a visit, and I'm happy to hear not only that you had great food, but that the staff didn't try to push you to spend, spend, spend. The times I've gone top restaurants, the respective staffs have made me uncomfortable turning down anything (luckily, I can stick to my guns).

How were the portions sized, Bruce? I remember watching the video on the Times Web site with Grimes' commentary and being surprised at the size of the lentil and foie gras dish. I'm hoping the portions are smaller than this made them seem.

[Schneier]

How were the portions sized, Bruce?

The portions were not too large, either on the tasting menus or on the a la carte side. We were not stuffed at the end.

Bruce

[jbraynolds]

I would argue that it was the media that CREATED Ducasse as "heir to Escoffier". You don't convince the world that you're the greatest chef of a generation when you're serving simply roasted fish, pasta and salads (which is what he was doing in Monaco when he started to get so much press) without the media there to cheerlead for you.

[jbraynolds]

Let me preface by saying that I really, really like the food at ADNY. I've had some superb meals there. It's the pricing that makes me wince.

Fwiw, the total RETAIL (not the wholesale price that the restaurant pays) for full bottles of all five wines that were served is $125.00, which means that ADNY paid about $80.00. That's for the bottles, which would, realistically, serve seven to eight diners. So call their wine cost per head about, what, $12.00? Whoah. What was the price for the pairing? And, maybe another subject entirely, I wouldn't expect to be served a French VdP, an Italian white, a Long Island red, a Spanish red and a Croatian wine at one of the flagship restaurants of this most vaunted of FRENCH chefs. Maybe at Mix, but at ADNY????

[Fat Guy]

So let any other chef open a restaurant with a single sitting, staffed like ADNY, and serving what he serves. And let that chef try to charge less money. I'm looking forward to watching that experiment unravel.

[jbraynolds]

Lest anyone forget, ADNY is supported by Westin. One of the more shrewd moves by Ducasse is partnering up with deep pockets (Westin, Jeffrey Chodorow, Plaza Athenee, Intercontinental Hotels, etc.). His personal, financial risk isn't anything close to that of an independent restauranteur. But his margins are greater.

[jbraynolds]

I'm sure that I'm throwing gasoline on a fire here but Ducasse, in my view, is more like Wolfgang Puck than anybody else. He has figured out a way to make a fortune by setting up various levels of restaurants, semi-casual to over-the-top formal, all over the place with wealthy partners. Unlike Puck, he has been able to preserve his repuation, in some quarters at least, as a genuinely serious, high-luxe chef. But he for sure isn't a Michel Bras or Olivier Roellinger, running one place where he can be a complete hard-ass.

[jbraynolds]

Sorry. Overstated, as usual. Puck has nothing close to ADNY, Paris or Monaco. Highly-regarded, expensive places, yes. AD-level, no way.

[Fat Guy]

I'm sure that I'm throwing gasoline on a fire here but Ducasse, in my view, is more like Wolfgang Puck than anybody else. He has figured out a way to make a fortune by setting up various levels of restaurants, semi-casual to over-the-top formal, all over the place with wealthy partners. Unlike Puck, he has been able to preserve his repuation, in some quarters at least, as a genuinely serious, high-luxe chef. But he for sure isn't a Michel Bras or Olivier Roellinger, running one place where he can be a complete hard-ass.

You say this like it's a bad thing!

Why don't you ask Michel Bras and Olivier Roellinger what they think of Ducasse? Or the overwhelming majority of the world's top chefs? I think you'll find that they think quite a bit more of Ducasse than you seem to.

[Schneier]

Fwiw, the total RETAIL (not the wholesale price that the restaurant pays) for full bottles of all five wines that were served is $125.00, which means that ADNY paid about $80.00. That's for the bottles, which would, realistically, serve seven to eight diners. So call their wine cost per head about, what, $12.00? Whoah. What was the price for the pairing? And, maybe another subject entirely, I wouldn't expect to be served a French VdP, an Italian white, a Long Island red, a Spanish red and a Croatian wine at one of the flagship restaurants of this most vaunted of FRENCH chefs. Maybe at Mix, but at ADNY????

I agree; the wine pairing was a huge disappointment. But I expected the high prices (if I remember, it cost something like $125), I just expected better wines for it.

I

Edited January 21, 2004 by Schneier (log)

[jbraynolds]

Actually, I have asked some of the world's top chefs (yes, in France) what they think of Ducasse. The usual, diplomatic response is "he's a great businessman", "he's very successful", "he has made a great name for himself"...things like that. The food part of the discussions is virtually a non-issue. Hey, chapeau, as they say.

Edited January 21, 2004 by jbraynolds (log)

[Schneier]

So let any other chef open a restaurant with a single sitting, staffed like ADNY, and serving what he serves. And let that chef try to charge less money. I'm looking forward to watching that experiment unravel.

I agree. I didn't find the price unreasonable, considering what we got.

B

[Jon Tseng]

Hmm, let's see: the guy is one of the greatest chefs in history -- the heir apparent to Escoffier;

Hmmm. I can see a fight brewing here

As Mao famously replied, when asked his view of the French Revolution

"Too early to tell"

J

[Fat Guy]

Hey, the whole point of being the heir apparent is that it's apparent now! Ducasse may get written out of the will by history, but there's no serious challenger at this time.

I'll let the matter drop now so as not to let the thread degenerate into a referendum on someone who needs no validation; most of the anti-Ducasse comments we're seeing here are fairly typical and are refuted every day by experiences like Bruce's.

[jbraynolds]

I'm still waiting for someone to refute the assertion that 15x (!!!!) is excessive mark-up for wine or that a restaurant of ADNY's stature is serving non-French, borderline peasant wines by the glass. Please, refute at will.

[jbraynolds]

Okay, only about 12x. What a deal!

[Pan]

Here are some previous threads that I found by doing a search of threads in the New York forum with "Ducasse" in their titles.

I can't search for a string in the thread title. How do you do it?

Bruce

Here's how you do it:

Click “Search”; click “More Options”; Search by Keywords = Ducasse; Search Where = Search titles only; click “Perform the Search.” Make sure you're searching only the New York board and search for posts on any date, not just the last 30 days.

[Schneier]

Here are some previous threads that I found by doing a search of threads in the New York forum with "Ducasse" in their titles.

I can't search for a string in the thread title. How do you do it?

Bruce

Here's how you do it:

Click “Search”; click “More Options”; Search by Keywords = Ducasse; Search Where = Search titles only; click “Perform the Search.” Make sure you're searching only the New York board and search for posts on any date, not just the last 30 days.

Thank you.

I hoped that someone would answer that query.

Bruce

[Bux]

I'm still waiting for someone to refute the assertion that 15x (!!!!) is excessive mark-up for wine or that a restaurant of ADNY's stature is serving non-French, borderline peasant wines by the glass. Please, refute at will.

At Arpège, the least expensive half bottle of red wine was somewhere approaching 150 euros, so we ordered a couple of glasses of red wine to go with our pigeon. I recall paying about 22 euros a glass for a Languedoc wine that I also seem to recall ran about half that or less, a bottle in NYC, but I won't refute the assertion that 15X is excessive mark up, even though Ducasse is not alone.

[Bux]

There’s someone in the kitchen who can dice things into absolutely square sixteenth-of-an-inch cubes.  I wonder what he gets paid?

There’s someone in the kitchen that can make perfectly round balls out of cooked leaves.  I wonder what he gets paid?

Speaking from ADPA - for my ADNY brethern -

Yes.

Not enough.

Probably done by some unpaid stagiaire who's doing it for the letter of recommendation. Forget salary. He, or she, is probably figuring out how to hide the quarter round pieces of carrot and potato because he's been told they should all be perfect dice and there should be no waste. Okay, I exaggerate--a bit.

I remember the comment of one of my companions at our first meal at El Bulli. It went something along the lines of "that was some fucking labor intensive meal." Not so much at my meal at AD/NY, but at AD/PA there was a dish or two that may have had it beat on that level. If nothing else, Louisa will be well prepared.