Papaya King vs. Gray's Papaya

[menton1]

The Nedick's dog tasted different, it seemed to have pork in it as well as beef; I also remember the mustard mixed together with relish in a glass bowl, and I loved the old "hand pump" dispensers for the orange drink!! (Zum-Zum, anyone?)

[rlibkind]

Yeah, Nedicks definitely served a pork/beef dog, totally different from Marathon's/Sabretts. And thanks for reminding me about the mustard/relish combo.

As for hand pumped, that reminds me. It's been at least 10 years since I was last at Nathan's in Coney Island, but do they still have the hand pumped pineapple drink? I loved that one.

[kpurvis]

I'm sorry I'm in the Carolinas at the time you're planning to be in New York, otherwise I'd love to take you around to a hot dog place or ten.

Gee, Mr. Guy, that is a shame. Here in the Carolinas, I could have taken you for a Winky Dinky Dog. It's topped with pimento cheese and chili.

[ahr]

The Nedick's dog tasted different, it seemed to have pork in it as well as beef...

I recall the Nedick's dog also being spiced differently -- nutmeg or mace, perhaps? -- and softer in texture (filler?). It's been a while, though.

[John]

As juuceman says, and as our hot dog correspondent John (would somebody please PM and e-mail him and alert him to this thread's existence?) has painstakingly investigated, the frankfurters for both Papaya King and Gray's Papaya (Mr. Gray is a former Papaya King employee, I believe) are manufactured by Marathon Enterprises in East Rutherford, New Jersey. This is the same company that makes Sabrett frankfurters, and to the best of the collective knowledge of eGulleters there is no difference between a Sabrett natural casing frankfurter and the frankfurters served at Papaya King and Gray's Papaya. Though many of us would like to be proven wrong on this point (it goes against what so many want to believe), so far the evidence has not been forthcoming.

Both Papaya King and Gray's Papaya prepare their frankfurters the same way -- slowly griddled until the casing is crisp -- and they seem to use identical Sabrett buns, and similar if not identical sauerkraut and deli mustard. The main difference on the frankfurter front seems to be that Papaya King is more expensive.

Where you will notice a dramatic difference is in the drinks. The bizarrely enjoyable (it really is one of the best accompaniments imaginable for hot dogs) papaya drink at Papaya King is about a thousand times better than the chalky one they peddle at Gray's.

There are a number of other items on the menus at all these places, but the classic order is "two with; papaya" which means two frankfurters with sauerkraut (you add your own mustard) and a medium sized papaya drink. Onions are an acceptable addition as well. Beyond that, I make no guarantees.

I'm sorry I'm in the Carolinas at the time you're planning to be in New York, otherwise I'd love to take you around to a hot dog place or ten.

Juuceman and Fat Guy are right on this one. Somewhere on E-Gullet I explained in detail how I found out that Gray's Papaya and Papaya King use the exact same Sabrett dogs (code # is identical) while Katz's uses a bigger version of the same dog. This was confirmed to me by 2 independant Sabrett distributors, the son of a long time Sabrett employee who delivered to the above places for many years, and also the current person in charge of private label who I contacted about buying franks similar to Papaya King. He told me that I could have the exact same ones, and then went into detail.

Sabrett makes franks according to 2 recipes. All beef and beef and pork. They come in different sizes; and with a casing or skinless. The beef franks are served at the above mentioned places as well as the many pushcarts in the city and N.J. Boulevard Drinks in Jersey City serves a frank that is just like Papaya King. The owner there also told me that his distributor told him that they were using the same dogs. Places that I know of that use the 50% beef 50% pork frank are the Hot Grill, Callahan's, and the Windmill.

A few years ago, I went to N.Y. to sample dogs from Katz's, Papaya King, and Gray's. At the time, I didn't know the origin of these franks. I noticed that they all were very similar, but like many here, I preferred Papaya King even though all 3 use the same dog. Katz's I liked least, only because the dog that I had there was undercooked and not hot. Differrences in taste have to do with how they're cooked, and maybe how the dogs are stored (frozen or not?) as well as certain factors that have to do with the individual locations. I guess it's like the many Chicago Hot Dogs. Most use a Vienna frank, but people swear that they taste better at one place or another. Same with Guiness Stout. Same beer, but people like it at one particular location.

Last year I was in Manhatten and tried a few dogs at Gray's. I went down to Papaya King's location around 44th st and found out that they've been gone for a few years, so I didn't get to make the comparison again.

[Akiko]

Papaya King makes a spicy sausage... which is truly one of a kind. I don't think Gray's does anything like it. Have one along with your regular dog.

[kpurvis]

Sorry to pull a bait-and-switch. I promised to report back, but just before I left for NYC last week, I got an assignment to do a story on N.C.-style barbecue in Manhattan. Having to fit in seven versions of pulled pork sandwiches left no chance (OK, no room!) to hit a hot dog stand.

I did get to Hearth (soulful roasted foie gras, duck pappardelle and goat milk panna cotta, and tastes of companions' roasted octopus and gnocchi, but my hands-down favorite was the hot cider doughnuts). Also went to Amma. Suvir wasn't in, but the grilled tandoori lamb chops and mango cheesecake were worth the stop. And I ran by Whole Foods quickly yesterday for coconut milk and red lentil soup.

[Holly Moore]

Sorry to pull a bait-and-switch. I promised to report back, but just before I left for NYC last week, I got an assignment to do a story on N.C.-style barbecue in Manhattan. Having to fit in seven versions of pulled pork sandwiches left no chance (OK, no room!) to hit a hot dog stand.

I did get to Hearth (soulful roasted foie gras, duck pappardelle and goat milk panna cotta, and tastes of companions' roasted octopus and gnocchi, but my hands-down favorite was the hot cider doughnuts). Also went to Amma. Suvir wasn't in, but the grilled tandoori lamb chops and mango cheesecake were worth the stop. And I ran by Whole Foods quickly yesterday for coconut milk and red lentil soup.

Pretty shabby excuse. There's always room for a few hot dogs.

[afoodnut]

... (Zum-Zum, anyone?)

Zum-Zum...

Was that the place that had veal bratwurst with onion sauce?

[wesza]

... (Zum-Zum, anyone?)

Zum-Zum...

Was that the place that had veal bratwurst with onion sauce?

"Zum Zum" was opened by Joe Baum's "Restaurant Associates" the first store may have been located adjacent to Grand Central Station at i'm pretty sure was called the Pan American Building.

Irwin

Edited March 9, 2004 by wesza (log)

[rlibkind]

"Zum Zum" was opened by Joe Baum's "Restaurant Associates"  the first store may have been located adjacent to Grand Central Station at i'm pretty sure was called the Pan American Building.

I worked at Grand Central in the late 70s (I told the radio stations how delayed the afternoon rush hour trains were) and regularly indulged in my wurst fantasies at Zum Zum. As you noted, Zum Zum was in the former Pan Am building -- an architectural monstrosity that forever blighted vistas up and down Park Avenue -- just up the escalators from GCT's main concourse.

PS: In the interest of accuracy (and because I'm a Class A nit-picker), the big railroad terminus is not Grand Central Station. It's Grand Central Terminal. Just look on the main facade, it's engraved in stone: Grand Central Terminal. Grand Central Station is the subway station complex under Grand Central Terminal; at one time it also was a network radio program (before my time); and, last I looked (admittedly about 15 years ago) there was a post office facility by that name somewhere in the general vicinity on Lex.

[Pan]

Yes, there still is a Grand Central Station post office.

[kpurvis]

Sorry to pull a bait-and-switch. I promised to report back, but just before I left for NYC last week, I got an assignment to do a story on N.C.-style barbecue in Manhattan. Having to fit in seven versions of pulled pork sandwiches left no chance (OK, no room!) to hit a hot dog stand.

I did get to Hearth (soulful roasted foie gras, duck pappardelle and goat milk panna cotta, and tastes of companions' roasted octopus and gnocchi, but my hands-down favorite was the hot cider doughnuts). Also went to Amma. Suvir wasn't in, but the grilled tandoori lamb chops and mango cheesecake were worth the stop. And I ran by Whole Foods quickly yesterday for coconut milk and red lentil soup.

Pretty shabby excuse. There's always room for a few hot dogs.

Sorry, Holly. You're right, I'm just a slip of a girl. Daisy May's, Pig Heaven, Brother Jimmy's, Amma, City Bakery, a catered lunch, Hearth, Red Flame, Biscuit, Pearson's, Blue Smoke, Virgil's and Whole Foods was as much as I could handle in three days. I'll train harder and try to do better next time.

[MGLloyd]

Same with Guiness Stout. Same beer, but people like it at one particular location.

After I finished weeping over the lack of good hotdog options in the Seattle area, I felt compelled to take keyboard in hand to correct the statement as to Guinness being the same.

When my wife and I toured the main brewery in Dublin, we were told that different Guinness breweries throughout the world made up to six different versions and up to nineteen different variations within those versions to account for regional taste and style of packaging. The main difference is draft vs. bottled vs. canned and in some areas, different amounts of barley, different amounts of hop IBUs and different yeasts. To the trained palate, there are taste differences.

My wife and I have noticed perceptible differences in the Guinness available in the UK, Ireland, Canada and the USA. We preferred the all-malt draft available in continental Europe and many Irish pubs or the Special Extra Stout available on draft in Dublin. At home in the Seattle area, we prefer to bottled Extra Stout when we can get it or a room-temperature draft.

Back to weeping over the sorry state of hotdog affairs in Seattle.

Edited March 9, 2004 by MGLloyd (log)

[wagyuboy]

Mandler's is awful (and much more expensive than either Papaya--6 or 7 for a sausage)...bland, dry and they have something called a seafood sausage that is just so wrong. (it sounded so cool, but no) Seriously, if you're down in that Union Square area and need a juicy sausage, just go over to the Gray's on 8th Street, or even the street guy in front of Virgin.

Somebody said something about barbecue here, and I would just like to take this time to point out that the Pearson's out in Jackson Heights is way better than the one on the Upper East Side.

[ophelie]

I've never been to a Papaya King. However, when I am stressed and stuck in the Garment/Fashion District (where I work), sometimes I swing by the Gray's Papaya for a quick $0.75 lunch. I wish I was closer to a Papaya King. That spicy sausage sounds tempting.

-Ophelie

[lambretta76]

I'd recommend the Papaya King for earlier in the day, and Grey's after you're trashed and ready to go home for the night. There's just something about the recession special with a Coconut Champagne, with the dogs "with everything" - which is just onions in tomato sauce, sauerkraut, spicy mustard, and ketchup. It's my favorite drunk food. Get the dogs well done so you get a better "crunch" with the skin.

[dr_memory]

Sorry, Holly. You're right, I'm just a slip of a girl. Daisy May's, Pig Heaven, Brother Jimmy's, Amma, City Bakery, a catered lunch, Hearth, Red Flame, Biscuit, Pearson's, Blue Smoke, Virgil's and Whole Foods was as much as I could handle in three days. I'll train harder and try to do better next time.

Well, so, report? :)

[kpurvis]

Sorry, Holly. You're right, I'm just a slip of a girl. Daisy May's, Pig Heaven, Brother Jimmy's, Amma, City Bakery, a catered lunch, Hearth, Red Flame, Biscuit, Pearson's, Blue Smoke, Virgil's and Whole Foods was as much as I could handle in three days. I'll train harder and try to do better next time.

Well, so, report? :)

Sorry, Doc. My paper gets first dibs. I'll post a link after my piece runs next Wednesday.

[ophelie]

Well, I was short on cash today (and not in the mood to charge), so after seeing the thread, went to Gray's over here in the Garment District. I had one hot dog and a small papaya drink (They are chalky, but strangely addictive). And the hot dog was yummy, as always.

-O

[dr_memory]

Sorry, Doc. My paper gets first dibs.

Sheesh, you people with your "jobs" and your "ethics" and your "contractual obligations"... what good are you?

[clothier]

As juuceman says, and as our hot dog correspondent John (would somebody please PM and e-mail him and alert him to this thread's existence?) has painstakingly investigated, the frankfurters for both Papaya King and Gray's Papaya (Mr. Gray is a former Papaya King employee, I believe) are manufactured by Marathon Enterprises in East Rutherford, New Jersey. This is the same company that makes Sabrett frankfurters, and to the best of the collective knowledge of eGulleters there is no difference between a Sabrett natural casing frankfurter and the frankfurters served at Papaya King and Gray's Papaya. Though many of us would like to be proven wrong on this point (it goes against what so many want to believe), so far the evidence has not been forthcoming.

Both Papaya King and Gray's Papaya prepare their frankfurters the same way -- slowly griddled until the casing is crisp -- and they seem to use identical Sabrett buns, and similar if not identical sauerkraut and deli mustard. The main difference on the frankfurter front seems to be that Papaya King is more expensive.

Where you will notice a dramatic difference is in the drinks. The bizarrely enjoyable (it really is one of the best accompaniments imaginable for hot dogs) papaya drink at Papaya King is about a thousand times better than the chalky one they peddle at Gray's.

There are a number of other items on the menus at all these places, but the classic order is "two with; papaya" which means two frankfurters with sauerkraut (you add your own mustard) and a medium sized papaya drink. Onions are an acceptable addition as well. Beyond that, I make no guarantees.

I'm sorry I'm in the Carolinas at the time you're planning to be in New York, otherwise I'd love to take you around to a hot dog place or ten.

Juuceman and Fat Guy are right on this one. Somewhere on E-Gullet I explained in detail how I found out that Gray's Papaya and Papaya King use the exact same Sabrett dogs (code # is identical) while Katz's uses a bigger version of the same dog. This was confirmed to me by 2 independant Sabrett distributors, the son of a long time Sabrett employee who delivered to the above places for many years, and also the current person in charge of private label who I contacted about buying franks similar to Papaya King. He told me that I could have the exact same ones, and then went into detail.

Sabrett makes franks according to 2 recipes. All beef and beef and pork. They come in different sizes; and with a casing or skinless. The beef franks are served at the above mentioned places as well as the many pushcarts in the city and N.J. Boulevard Drinks in Jersey City serves a frank that is just like Papaya King. The owner there also told me that his distributor told him that they were using the same dogs. Places that I know of that use the 50% beef 50% pork frank are the Hot Grill, Callahan's, and the Windmill.

A few years ago, I went to N.Y. to sample dogs from Katz's, Papaya King, and Gray's. At the time, I didn't know the origin of these franks. I noticed that they all were very similar, but like many here, I preferred Papaya King even though all 3 use the same dog. Katz's I liked least, only because the dog that I had there was undercooked and not hot. Differrences in taste have to do with how they're cooked, and maybe how the dogs are stored (frozen or not?) as well as certain factors that have to do with the individual locations. I guess it's like the many Chicago Hot Dogs. Most use a Vienna frank, but people swear that they taste better at one place or another. Same with Guiness Stout. Same beer, but people like it at one particular location.

Last year I was in Manhatten and tried a few dogs at Gray's. I went down to Papaya King's location around 44th st and found out that they've been gone for a few years, so I didn't get to make the comparison again.

Hey John,

is there anything about hot dogs you don't know? Awesome.

Anyway, do you have any knowledge of the hot dog/coney islands here in Detroit?

[John]

The hot dogs, or Coney's in Detroit are basically a knockoff of the Jersey Texas Weiner. A beef/pork frank with mustard, onions, and chili (usually beanless). Whereas the North Jersey or Hot Texas Weiner is deep fried, and the Plainfield area Texas Weiner is grilled; the Detroit version is either grilled or steamed. And many of the places serve much smaller dogs that can be eaten in about 3 bites. In upstate N.Y., the dog that is called a coney is actually a white hot dog. Very similar to a bratwurst; the only difference being that it is smaller than a bratwurst. In other words, a bratwurst shaped like a small hot dog with Texas Weiner ingredients.

[kpurvis]

Sorry, Doc. My paper gets first dibs.

Sheesh, you people with your "jobs" and your "ethics" and your "contractual obligations"... what good are you?

What can I say? I dance with the one what brung me. That silly paycheck gets addictive.

[Varmint]

Hell, I'm just disappointed Kathi didn't invite me to accompany her on the barbecue adventure.