catering horror story

[mongo_jones]

don't want to bust in on the caterers' horror stories thread but i have one of my own as a customer to relate:

my wife is korean-american and i am indian. we had a close friends and family (about 100 people total) wedding in my wife's uncle's backyard. we organized everything ourselves. for the food we decided to go with a combo indian and korean buffet. the korean food was sourced from an operation in koreatown in l.a and the indian food from one of the better north-indian restaurants in artesia (the l.a area's not-so-little-india). for the indian we'd gone over and done a tasting and interacted with the highly professional manager of the restaurant (who i should add, in an act of foreshadowing, was very fluent in english).

the food was all supposed to start arriving between 1.00 and 1.30 for setup by 2 and a late lunch buffet starting at 2.15.

now, as i said we'd organized the whole wedding ourselves but our plan had been that starting from the actual morning of we would no longer take an active role and i had accordingly handed everything off to a friend of mine to manage. at about 1.45 we were being photographed in extremely artificial poses while our guests were walking around our host's wonderful backyard, drinking wine and taking in a beautiful southern california summer afternoon. out of the corner of my eye i noticed my friend the coordinator gesticulating wildly while talking into my cell-phone. since we were no longer supposed to be involved i resisted the urge to ask what was going on. the photographs got done at about 2.10 and i looked around to locate my friend--i noticed she was again on the phone, looking increasingly harried. eventually her husband came over and informed us that while the korean caterers, who also supplied the servers, had arrived early and had finished setting all their stuff up by 1.30 there had been no sign of the indians till 1.45, at which point my phone had rung and a man speaking extremely broken english had managed to convey that he was the indian caterer and was lost.

--at this point i should clarify that all the vendors (who'd been arriving throughout the day) had been given detailed printed directions and that all of the others had had no problem getting there (despite being mostly korean and not speaking ANY english), and that the manager of the indian restaurant had assured me that his drivers knew the area well and would have no trouble finding it--

anyway--so at 1.45 my friend had given the caterer fresh directions from where he'd called from (which hadn't seemed to be that far away), only to have him call back at 2.05 even more lost in some place even further away. none of this was helped by the fact that the guy calling didn't seem to speak much english and my friend doesn't speak any hindi. resisting the urge to jump right back into the fray i asked my friend's husband to locate one of my indian friends if the guy should call again and have him mediate. of course, my indian friends were themselves from out of town and couldn't guide the guy directly.

anyway, since the indian food was only scheduled to be 30% of the buffet and since the koreans had, true to their word, brought way more food than they needed to we figured it wasn't a big deal if it arrived a little late. so everything gets going, people start eating, all is happy-happy. quite apart from the exellence of the korean food alcohol is flowing and much bad karaoke is happening. except it is now 3.15 and there is still no sign of the indian food. and the korean relatives, most of whom have never eaten indian food and have been looking forward to it are getting increasingly disappointed as they get increasingly full. on cue my phone rings. my friend picks it up, gets that look in her eye and waves one of my indian friends over. i see him getting more excitable as they attempt to have a three-way conversation with the driver. finally i can't take it anymore and walk over--my friend, who has all week warned me about trying to do any work on the big day happily shoves the phone at me. i get on the phone and tell the driver to stop where he is (once again he is not very far away) and listen carefully to me; the man, who has also been driving around for a couple of hours in a van, starts giving me some crap about being given bad directions by each person he's spoken to etc. etc. and refusing to take any more--not loosing my cool i ask him to call the manager of the restaurant and get his shit together. at this point he informs me that HE is the OWNER of the restaurant. we have some words (not altogether pleasant) and he hangs up. 10 minutes later (and about 15 minutes after everyone has been stuffed full of excellent korean food) the indian food arrives. not only is it more than 2 hours late but the silver serving dishes they were supposed to bring haven't arrived (they've brought everything in tin-foil containers!) and far from being apologetic the owner is copping an attitude with everyone he speaks to. i take him aside and tell him to put the food down and leave; he asks for his money (which was due on delivery) and complains loudly again about bad directions--i tell him we'll discuss it later and point out that if we'd done all the catering through him our wedding would have been a disaster and that as such he should alter his mindset. after some hemming and hawing he takes off.

at this point we have indian food for about 40 people but very few takers. however, some people muster up room in their stomachs and dig in. the food itself is excellent but predictably only a minor dent is made in it.

however, thanks to the aforementioned alcohol and bad karaoke the party's spirits have not been dampened in the least and once the mindblowingly excellent cake has been broken out we've all put this behind us. by 5 everyone but close friends (staying for the clean-up) have gone. after everything has been tidied up we have the leftover indian food (about 25 people's worth) divvied up among the cleaning crew and it is sent to good homes.

despite all of this the wedding has been a huge success and we're feeling happy and good. the one thing that remains is the question of the indian caterer's remaining payment, but we decide to put it out of our minds for some time--i say to my wife words to the effect of, "if he has any shame he'll call to apologize and offer us a free dinner".

well, they don't call for a couple of weeks but when they do it is the urbane manager and he sheepishly asks for payment. i tell him that given that the food arrived 2 1/2 hours late and after the eating was done, and that it had been brought to be served in extremely tacky dishes, he should be happy that he got paid the advance. he disagrees and brings up bad directions again--i point out wearily that a korean florist who didn't speak any english had found the place with no trouble; we have words; i hang up. this goes on for about a week, at the end of which we leave los angeles for colorado and the calls stop. we still haven't figured out if we really owed them any money--it sure seemed like breach of contract to us, even though the food was all finally eaten (just not when and where it was supposed to have been).

so, should we have paid? should we have gotten the advance back?

(edited to fix spelling etc.)

Edited January 20, 2004 by mongo_jones (log)

[Pan]

Thanks for telling us your story.

The owner of the Indian place operated incompetently. If I had waited 2 1/2 hours to be served any food after ordering dinner in a restaurant, I'd expect them to comp the meal.

But I'm just curious what percent of the expected payment the deposit you paid was.

[herbacidal]

Mongo,

Don't especially want to make a big hubbub of it at this point,

but I have to side with you; however, we do only have your side of the story.

If I was trying to mediate the argument, I would ask:

Is there a tape/written copy of your directions to the Indian caterer?

Did you inform the Indian caterer of your timeline? Again, is there a tape/written copy?

Was specific details like choice of chafing dish in writing?

You got food finally, at the end. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably have given them 50% of the agreed upon price.

[mongo_jones]

Thanks for telling us your story.

The owner of the Indian place operated incompetently. If I had waited 2 1/2 hours to be served any food after ordering dinner in a restaurant, I'd expect them to comp the meal.

But I'm just curious what percent of the expected payment the deposit you paid was.

spacing on the exact figures now but i think we'd paid about a sixth up-front. the rest was supposed to have been paid on delivery.

[mongo_jones]

Mongo,

Don't especially want to make a big hubbub of it at this point,

but I have to side with you; however, we do only have your side of the story.

If I was trying to mediate the argument, I would ask:

Is there a tape/written copy of your directions to the Indian caterer?

Did you inform the Indian caterer of your timeline? Again, is there a tape/written copy?

Was specific details like choice of chafing dish in writing?

You got food finally, at the end. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably have given them 50% of the agreed upon price.

yes, timelines and details were agreed to in writing. the directions were printed, faxed and receipt of them acknowledged.

i think i might have been more inclined to give them more money if a) the food had not arrived after everyone had finished eating and b) their attitude had been better both on the day of and in the weeks following. i should say we didn't at any point make a decision not to pay them--our goal was to make them wait just as they'd made us wait and see how it went. but then they stopped calling. and given that they did stop calling after a point i don't think they really expected to get paid either.

[jsolomon]

As I see it, which is more from an ethical/moral standpoint, not legal, you DO owe them something. Whether it was taken care of with the 1/6th deposit, I'm not sure.

However, here is what I see:

1: There were VERY late

2: They blamed your directions which apparently worked with Koreans

3: They didn't bring the agreed-upon serving dishes <-- not sure if I understood that correctly from your post.

But, they did deliver the agreed-upon food.

So, there was some amount of service delivered. I'm not sure what the legal requirements of reducing your bill for a situation like this, but I would tend to say something approaching wholesale cost for the ingredients would be fair in a situation like this.

[mongo_jones]

But, they did deliver the agreed-upon food.

So, there was some amount of service delivered.

of course as the aggrieved party here my position on this is somewhat contaminated. that being said i don't know if the food being delivered per se constitutes delivery of service. in the context of our event the food being delivered AFTER lunch had finished in a sense meant the food was of no use to us. in retrospect we should have at some point in the phone tag told him to forget about it or possibly we should not have accepted the food when it arrived--but a) no one in the early conversations expected that they would continue to be lost b) at the end of the last phone conversation it wasn't clear that they were still coming and c) when they did arrive with the food and plonk it down in the tin-foil containers (this still steams me) it seemed to me to be too much of a scene to ask them to pick it all up and bugger off --this was a small outdoor reception and everything was visible to all the guests.

once we had the food it was better to give it to people than to throw it away. but the fact that it was received and (eventually) consumed doesn't mean that the service we had agreed to pay for was delivered. remember: it had been of svmbolic importance to us to have both indian and korean food at our wedding reception; with the exception of a few greedy guts who managed to eat again this was denied to us. once again, given that the restaurant didn't pursue the matter very long--though we left l.a the cell-phone number that they had for me remained active for another 2 months--i suspect they too felt that the advance was probably adequate compensation.

(grammar edit)

Edited January 20, 2004 by mongo_jones (log)

[cwyc]

I would tend to agree with herbacidal and jsolomon. Services were rendered, albeit poorly, so they do deserve some form of payment for delivery and providing the food. At the very least it would seem to make sense to cover at least their operating costs.

After reading your last post, it would seem to me you have already made up your mind that the advance you paid was sufficient and they deserved no more. If that is the case, then there really isn't much point in arguing your situation. I get the sense you are looking more for affirmation of having paid him only 1/6th of the originally agreed upon price.

[mongo_jones]

After reading your last post, it would seem to me you have already made up your mind that the advance you paid was sufficient and they deserved no more. If that is the case, then there really isn't much point in arguing your situation. I get the sense you are looking more for affirmation of having paid him only 1/6th of the originally agreed upon price.

oh, i'm open to having my mind changed--i'm just not convinced yet.

[WolfChef]

In my opinion he deserves more than 1/6 but less than full. You did say the food was excellent and he (someone, probably an employee) called at 1:45 trying to find the location. Not trying to convince you, just my opinion. Sitting here thinking about Korean and Indian food(what delicious sounding combo) i've gotten real hungry.

[cjs]

over 2 hours late? If I was the driver I would have called it a wash and went home.

If I was the bride or groom I would have given them NADA!

[Pan]

given that the restaurant didn't pursue the matter very long--though we left l.a the cell-phone number that they had for me remained active for another 2 months--i suspect they too felt that the advance was probably adequate compensation.

I figure they simply gave up because they figured you weren't paying and it wasn't worth the trouble to try to get payment.

[herbacidal]

Hmm, so I've set the high number for the repayment, and you have unintentionally set the low number with the deposit.

As I see it, you accepted the food albeit. That you accepted it all means they should get something, but we're not in argument about that.

The fact that you didn't want to make a scene doesn't have anything to do with how much money you should/should not pay.

My reasoning is, by giving him 50%, you're basically paying him for materials and a few expenses, but not allowing him to make a profit, which is about right, since you did get food out of the exchange, even though you subsequently gave it to everybody to take home rather than enjoy there.

Anyway, I think you can argue from now until your 50th anniversary about exactly how much is appropriate.

[Comfort Me]

This is an interesting topic for me.

Dear friends were married recently. I did the wedding cake, which is another post in and of itself. But their reception is on point.

Their reception was scheduled to start at 4:00 with an hour of cocktails and passed hors deuvres. (My spelling sucks. Sorry.) When the wedding started, at 3 p.m., the caterer still had not shown up! I missed the ceremony because I was setting up tables and chairs in the church hall. Cocktails started at 4:30 -- but the hors didn't get out until around 6:00! That's a LOT of time with an open bar! And dinner, which was supposed to be at 5:00, didn't start until 7:00. People were pickled by the time dinner started, and the food wasn't particularly good -- or even particularly warm.

Then the bastard caterer stole the $60, 3/4" thick round piece of tempered glass I had made for the cake base.

I don't know what they worked out with the caterer, but if my guests had to set up the reception hall, put up the tables, set out the chairs, dress and set the tables, I wouldn't have paid full price.

[wnissen]

Comfort Me, I think I saw your story on Etiquette Hell. Isn't it amazing how it's always the responsible semi-outsiders (i.e., not the so-called "attendants") who end up doing the work?

But back to the original topic. This is not at all the same thing, but my wife's parents arranged for beverages to be delivered for a small reception after her senior year recital. This was the Sunday of the spring time change, and they were scheduled to arrive in time to serve at an 1 p.m. reception. They didn't even arrive until two (fifteen minutes late on top of the hour) so they were sent home. In this case, I feel justified in giving a caterer nothing, because no goods or services were accepted. In such a case, I would try to get a deposit back, if any.

In the case of the indian food, I don't necessarily think it's right, but it is completely understandable to take the food (what would the caterer do with it anyway) and not give them a penny more. Weddings are important to people, and anyone who provides food for a wedding should be prepared to stick to a schedule or else be prepared to not get paid. Probably this was a good lesson for them to learn.

Walt

[PopsicleToze]

I would send them a check for 50% of the amount due, and write in the memo portion of the check PAID IN FULL. As a precaution, type on the back of the check: By negotiating this check I hereby agree that this payment shall be considered PAYMENT IN FULL and no futher sums shall be due for services rendered on __Date__.

He wants to argue the point, so my cover letter would be simple and short that the agreement you had for the catering was not deemed satisfactory. However, in the spirit of cooperation you are willing to pay half of the negotiated price.

-----------------

P.S. I did this with an interior decorator once. (She altered my blueprints and took out an aquarium I wanted built in the wall, then had the nerve to tell me she did it because she didn't think I needed it. A standalone aquarium would be sufficient. I don't think so!) Anyway, after her services were terminated, she sent me a very escalated bill and charged for about twice the number of billable hours she had. I sent the check as described above. She held onto it for several months before finally depositing it.

[clifford]

As someone who once ran several successful off-premise catering ventures, I know that they are often fraught with potential disaster.

My only question is this: did the Indian Restaurant REGULARLY execute off-premise catering? If not, you should have never contracted them to do so in the first place. Many restauranteurs fail miserably in what seems like a simple logistical challenge.

It doesn't seem like this particular restaurant was well versed in something seemingly easy as food delivery. It is obvious that they were trying to get you the food, unfortunately they were failing. Their failure to live up to their end of the bargain was magnified because it was your wedding, a once in a lifetime event. Weddings, to me, were always the most pressure filled simply because I knew the clients expectations were so high, and a letdown was simply not an option.

Change the event from your wedding, to say, a family picnic. Your anger/disappointment with these exact same events would be considerably different, and you most certainly would have settled the issue of payment by now.

The restaurant apparently was trying their damndest to get the food to you, but were inept. Shame on them for not being able to accomplish their contracted obligation. And even worse, shame on them for making excuses.

However, you did accept the food when it arrived. And although you may not have wished to make a scene, you had joined in the fray several times before the food got there. When it arrived, everyone, by your own admission, had already eaten. So you cannot argue that you HAD to accept the food at that point. You chose to.

The caterer/restaurant deserves to be paid more than 1/6th of the total. I would imagine something along the lines of 1/3 would be appropriate.

[Pan]

My only question is this: did the Indian Restaurant REGULARLY execute off-premise catering? If not, you should have never contracted them to do so in the first place.

They shouldn't have contracted to cater a wedding if they weren't competent enough to do so. Agreed? I don't think it's the customer's fault.

[clifford]

Perhaps it came across harshly and I was not trying to assign blame to the customer, just a bit of advice. There are a lot of very good restaurants that can't seem to get their food to "travel" well, but when presented with the opportunity, are willing to try. Better to trust the ones that do it frequently, especially for such an important day.

[Pan]

Sensible advice.

[mongo_jones]

sensible advice indeed, but not applicable in this case-- this restaurant does do a lot of catering. in any event, find me a caterer in los angeles who does indian food. forgive the essentialism but for my wedding it better be an indian caterer.

(edit for grammar fix)

Edited January 22, 2004 by mongo_jones (log)