2000 Vintage Wines For Cellaring

[newt]

Hi all, I stumbled onto this forum during my internet travels, and after reading up for a while, I am sure you all can help me out.

I would like to purchase and cellar a number of 2000 vintage wines (my daughter's birth year), but do not know how to tell if a particular wine is suitable for aging. Obviously, I know if I like a particular wine, but don't know what to look for in terms of aging properties.

I am thinking Bordeaux, CnDP, and Hermitage wines for long term (10-30 years), as I understand these types of wines will hold up well (please correct me if I am wrong).

So, my question is two-fold:

1. How can I determine the suitability of a wine for cellaring by tasting?

2. Any recomendations (in various price ranges)?

[LOS]

Those types of wines do indeed generally age well. Others do too -- Barolo, Barbaresco, classically styled Rioja and Burgundy, and many others.

Most Bordeaux 2000 are priced over the top, thanks to the hype. There are indeed many ageable wines here, and you may be able to find one at a decent price. Then again, you may not. Others will have to provide recs; I stopped paying attention to Bordeaux when the 96s (and their prices) hit the shelves. The Domaine de Chevalier has shown aging potential in the past and is IMO underpriced in todays Bordeaux market, but I have not tasted the 2000.

Hermitage 2000 is an iffy year.

Chateauneuf 2000 is a very good year, but I don't follow the wines much anymore personally. I've had the Beaucastel and it was very good, but spendy.

Barolo 2000 has not yet been released. Much Barbaresco 2000 is out, but has not hit the shelves here yet. The Pelissero Barbaresco is rumored to be a great wine. Also from Piedmont, I have had a superb 2000 Barbera d'Alba -- the 2000 Bricco della Viole from G.D. Vajra. With proper storage, this may well last 20 years. I paid just under $25.

Most of the better 2000 Riojas will not be released for several years yet; I can't comment on vintage quality. But the classically styled Riojas are often bargains and may well be the "value" option here: the cheapest way you can get wine that will still be going strong in 2 years, not just hanging on for dear life. I would not expect "modern-style" Riojas to have this kind of aging potential.

Burgundy 2000 is not a vintage for long-lived wines, and I would not look here.

[ctgm]

I suppose the classic wine for long term keeping is Port but again the 2000 vintage is quite pricy! As mentioned Bordeaux is starting at a hefty premium but some of the Sauternes might be affordable. If you want some alternatives that shouldn't be "too" expensive (and last for a long time) why not try:

Madeira

Coteaux de Layon/Chaume

Vouvray

Tokay

Champagne (??)

Of course the better wines will have more chance to stand the test of time. Many wines these days are made to be approachable at a young age as this is what the market demands. Gone are the days when your Bordeaux would have been "undrinkable" until it was 10-15 years old!

The other way of looking at things is to cellar some wines from 2000 for say 10-15 years (until they are at their peak) and then sell them and replace them with something else (although this misses the point about the birth year)

Edited December 10, 2003 by ctgm (log)

[LOS]

If you want some alternatives that shouldn't be "too" expensive (and last for a long time) why not try:

Madeira

Coteaux de Layon/Chaume

Vouvray

Tokay

Champagne (??)

A few comments on these:

Madeira -- I know very little about Madiera, but don't they release vintage Madiera long after the vintage date? Vintage 2000 Madiera may be difficult to find soon.

Vouvray -- 2000 was not a good year for the Moulleux wines, which are the ageable ones. Some of the better producers did not even make Moulleux wines in 2000.

Coteaux du Layon -- I follow this less closely than Vouvray, but I expect this vintage is not made to age.

Tokay -- A great idea, though I have no idea about the 2000 vintage.

Champagne -- There are very few bottlings of Champagne that are made for laying down that don't cost an arm and a leg. They are out there, but tough to find.

[DaleW]

I agree with most of what LOS said.

Lots of 2000 Bordeaux, especially on the high-end, is incredibly expensive. Some less expensive ones (under$25)that I expect to last 10-20 include 2000 Ch. Brown (Pessac-Leognan), 2000 Tronquoy-Lalande (St. Estephe), 2000 La Fleur de Boüard (Lalande de Pomerol), 2000 Chateau la Louvière rouge (Pessac-Leognan), and 2000 Ch. de Pez (St. Estephe). For a little more, du Tertre, Dauzac, or Giscours. If you're willing to go over $50, Leoville-Poyferre.

2000 CdP looks like a good vintage. The Beaucastel should last a long time, but at $50+ it's expensive. Le Vieux Donjon is another that should last, at closer to $30.

I'd steer away from the 2000 Barolo vintage. Supposedly a good vintage, but in a riper style a la 1997. With WS hype prices will be up, yet with ripe vintage good chance agability will be down.

2000 Ports will be the absolutely safest bet. Any decent house Port will last 25-30 years w/o missing a beat. Plus, as you don't know if your child will appreciate wine, I find Port a safe bet- everyone likes a tiny glass.

While I tend to recommend sweet or demi-sec Chenin Blanc as best bang for aging buck, 2000 wasn't great year. Same is true for most of Germany, but the higher Pradikat offerings from Dönhoff in the Nahe did well.

2000 was a pretty good year in Austria, a higher level bottling from Nigl,

Brundlmayer, FX Pichler , Nikolaihof, or Hiedler would be a good ager.

As to what to look for in tasting, there's always an element of chance. I look at track record of the property, then when tasting look at the balance of tannin, acidity, and fruit in a red, and acidity and fruit in a white.

Best of luck,

[Coop]

Who are you doing this for, yourself or your daughter? It will be in the range of 20 years before she could even consider sharing your love for wine. What will you be introducing her to? Tired wine likely past it's prime. I had the good fortune to marry Mrs. Coop in 1982 the vintage of the century in Bordeaux. Each year we have sampled another tired old wine past it's prime to celebrate. BTW all the wines were deemed age worthy by no less authority then R Parker. Luckily all that's left is Cos, Palmer and La Lagune as well as a Marchesi de Barolo, Barolo. Maybe for our 25th we can have something with some life left.

[ctgm]

Thanks for the info on the sweet Loires.

Madeira - yes it is a long time! By law a vintage madeira has to spend 20 years in cask and even the Colieto (sp??) I think have to spend 10 years in wood.

I will confess to not knowing too much about the 2000 vintage in Tokay. If you are interested I could ask a friend of mine whose father has a property there. Even if it only a half decent vintage, the wines should be able to stand the test of time.

Coop, I have recently had the Palmer 82 and can tell you that this is not yet past it and has improved quite a lot in the past few years. Then againa I suppose it all depends how it has been stored as I know that the cellar where this came from can keep wines in pristine condition for decades.

[bleachboy]

I'd like to see this question answered more thoroughly. I know what I like in a new wine. How do I know what it's going to be like in 5-10 years, say?

Do I look for red wines that are a little too tannic, whites that are a little too fruity?

[Jon Tseng]

Tokay - 2000 is an excellent vintage, on a par with 93 and 99.

The 2000 aszus should be released early next year

cheers

J

[ctgm]

I'd like to see this question answered more thoroughly. I know what I like in a new wine. How do I know what it's going to be like in 5-10 years, say?

Do I look for red wines that are a little too tannic, whites that are a little too fruity?

This one comes down to experience (ie having in the past seen wines of a similar fruit/tannin/acidity develop over the years). If you don't have the confidence, the best person to ask this is the producer, who should be able to know how long it will last. This information is not a secret and the wine merchant should be able to get this for you.

Here in the Uk we all tend to keep our red wines too long, but the sweet wines and fortified are much better lasters. Sweet wines tend to last longer because of the residual sugar.

The problem with tannic red wines is that by the time the tannins have become nice and soft the fruit might have died out. There was some concern over some of the 1988 vintage from Bordeaux.

[LOS]

I'd like to see this question answered more thoroughly.  I know what I like in a new wine.  How do I know what it's going to be like in 5-10 years, say?

Do I look for red wines that are a little too tannic, whites that are a little too fruity?

This one comes down to experience (ie having in the past seen wines of a similar fruit/tannin/acidity develop over the years). If you don't have the confidence, the best person to ask this is the producer, who should be able to know how long it will last. This information is not a secret and the wine merchant should be able to get this for you.

The problem with tannic red wines is that by the time the tannins have become nice and soft the fruit might have died out. There was some concern over some of the 1988 vintage from Bordeaux.

What ctgm says here is right.

To expand a bit, there are 3 things that will preserve a wine: high tannin content, high acidity, and sugar. A wine must have at least one of these, as well as a good concentration level, to age well. Dessert wines generally preserve very well because of their sugar and sometimes their acidity. Dry white wines generally preserve well if they have high acidity (and high concentration). Dry red wines can be preserved by tannin, acidity, or both.

A high alcohol level (which can often be mistaken for high concentration) will not do a great deal to help preserve a wine until it hits 17-18% or so, I think.

Learning to discern these elements in a wine can take a good deal of practice, but they are what you must look for.

Lee

[DaleW]

There was some concern over some of the 1988 vintage from Bordeaux.

I never really thought of 1988 as that tannic a vintage, nothing like say 1986. I actually like both, but it's the '86s where I still have my fingers crossed re there being fruit left when those tannins subside.

[oenomania]

Hmm. This is an interesting thread. It seems to suggest another excellent reason for adoption. Either that or wait for a good vintage in the southern hemisphere and then hurry.

[Alberto]

You can't go wrong with vintage port; if you don't want to give an arm and a leg to buy a case, wait a little and take 2000 Late Bottled Vintage; if it's unfiltered (with driven cork, sometimes it's written on the label) will last 20 years too, I think.

Also amarone is an option. By a rule of thumb, higher the alcohol, slower the changes. Plesase someone tell me if I'm wrong...

Cheers,

Alberto

Edited December 11, 2003 by Alberto (log)

[LOS]

Also amarone is an option. By a rule of thumb, higher the alcohol, slower the changes. Plesase someone tell me if I'm wrong... 

Amarone is indeed a good option. Don't know anything about the 2000 vintage, though.

There are better rules of thumb. High alcohol will do a little bit to preserve a wine, but not a lot. Acid and tannin make much more difference. Dry wines with high alcohol, low acid, and low tannin age very very poorly.

[Alberto]

Amarone is indeed a good option.  Don't know anything about the 2000 vintage, though.

Starting to hit the shelves now for some producers, but I think one have to wait next year(s) for others, including the big names.

Seems a high praised vintage. 2000 recioti released this and past year have been rated very high, earning the title of sweet wine of the year in Slowfood guide with Recioto Classico by Allegrini. Amarone might follow.

Valtellina Superiore DOCG Sfursat (made very like amarone but with nebbiolo grapes) might last long and comes relatively cheap, don't know about the vintage since there are very few great years in that mountain DOCG.

Cheers,

Alberto

[mikeycook]

There was some concern over some of the 1988 vintage from Bordeaux.

I never really thought of 1988 as that tannic a vintage, nothing like say 1986. I actually like both, but it's the '86s where I still have my fingers crossed re there being fruit left when those tannins subside.

I have had similar concerns. I still have a number of 86s I haven't tried yet (Gruaud Larose, Latour). I will say, however, that I have had the Chateau Talbot twice and it definitely does not disappoint on the fruit count. One bottle was still a little closed, but the other had the most amazing fruit, almost like a rich strawberry. I had it a couple of years ago and it is still one of the best single bottles I have tasted. It leaves me optimistic for other 86s, especially the St.-Juliens.

[newt]

Thanks all for the replies. What got me interested in buying wine from the year my daughter was born is the 1969 (my birth year) Talbot that a friend gave me. His father had bought a case after my friend was born.

I have actually had this 69 Talbot twice. Once about 10 years ago and one just recently. I was actually not all that impressed with the last bottle, but from what I could gather, 1969 was not the best of years for Bordeaux, so the wine was probably on the way downhill.

It is highly likely that I will drink most of the wine that I lay down from 2000, but I will try to save a couple bottles for my daughter.

I may even break down and buy a first growth Bordeaux to pass along when she turns 21, but they don't come cheap these days!

[Carolyn Tillie]

From today's Napa Register, the synopsis is that the tasters involved didn't think 2000 Napa Cabs will age especially well, but are currently pairing nicely with food: Plays Well With Food.

I agree with previous posters on looking for a Port - best bet for great lay-down wine!

[sammy]

I'd go with the port as well. I bought a good bottle of 1994 port when my daughter was born. She has no idea that I have it and I hope to to break it out as a surprise on her wedding night. I'm tearing up as I think about it and she's only 8