Absinthe: The Topic

[MissAmy]

I only had absinthe once, and it wasn't the halucinatory experience I had hoped it would be. I just got really, really drunk. It didn't taste terrible, but it was strong, and the sugar helped. Eh. I wouldn't go out of my way to drink it again, but if it were offered to me, and I didn't have to drive, I'd partake.

[BrooksNYC]

Czech "so-called" absinthe bears no resemblance to good absinthe. None. Zero. Zip. It gives absinthe a terrible name, and for the same high price, you could be drinking a fine artisinal product instead of paint-thinner. It really pays to do your homework before buying!

Read the entirety of this thread carefully. Consult the absinthe forums, and find out what people (some of whom have spent years studying this drink) have to say. Two forums:

La Fee Verte

The Wormwood Society

If you're thinking of making a purchase, an informal June 28, '06 poll of Wormwood Society members ranked these absinthes in terms of popularity:

#1 Edouard (Jade)

#2 Eichelberger Verte 68 (Eichelberger)

#3 Clandestine la Bleue (Artemisia-Bugnon)

#4 Verte Suisse (Jade)

#5 Nouvelle-Orléans (Jade)

#6 Kübler 53 (Kübler)

#7 La Ptite (Gaudentia Persoz) by rank and Montmartre (Fischer) by overall hits

#8 Montmartre (Fischer)

#9 Segarra 45 (Segarra) by rank, tied with Un Emile 68 (Emile Pernot) by overall hits

#10 François Guy (François Guy)

H. du Bois, we're both New Yorkers. If you'll host some evening, I'll be delighted to traipse over with three or four of the above. Just PM me. (And if you have a spouse or friend you'd like to educate, they're welcome to join us.)

FINALLY:

Absinthe is a high-proof drink. Period. It does not make you hallucinate.

Absinthe is no more - and no less - toxic than gin, scotch, vodka, or bourbon.

Good absinthe isn't bitter. I, myself, rarely use sugar.

[H. du Bois]

BrooksNYC, thank you for that wonderful offer - I shall PM you. And thank you for all that information - it's invaluable.

I didn't know that Czech absinthe was expensive (my two bottles were a gift from someone). I'd presumed that it was on par with Becharovka, moneywise. Good to know it isn't any good - I won't inflict it on my friends. (The Listerine green shade of one of them was a pretty good indicator, though).

The absinthe that I'd tasted which was made from the Scientific American recipe was distilled, but whether the maker used infusion at any point in the process, I don't know. I'll have to ask him. From what I recall (and I tasted this a very long time ago, and didn't pay these things much mind), it was the Pernod brothers original recipe.

I do agree that I shouldn't judge this drink by only having had the home brew that once. It is telling that I've had those Czech bottles sitting untouched in my cupboard all this time - what I'd sampled that once had given me no inclination to try them.

[BrooksNYC]

You're so welcome. I haven't priced Czech absinthe lately, but whatever they're charging is too much!

I apologize for the tone of frustration running through my last post. It is frustrating to see people duped by merchants who charge exhorbitant prices for swill that bears no resemblance to a wonderful nineteenth-century beverage.

To summarize one last time, con gusto:

• Stay well clear of Czech absinthe. Hold out for the good stuff, or stick to martinis.
  
• Don't get burned by do-it-yourself absinthe "kits" (widely available on the web).
  
• The hallucination myth is just that.
  
• Too many manufacturers and online merchants are still trying to cash in on thujone content. Don't buy the hype! The whole thujone business has been thoroughly debunked.
  

[eje]

My own experience with Absinthe is pretty limited; but, I don't think it should be overly bitter. There are a couple exceptions. There are some Absinthes and Absinthe-like liqueurs (Versinthe) which include gentian among the herbs used to flavor them. These are somewhat bitter.

I don't know the SA recipe. However, green Absinthes do include a post distillation coloring stage where they are are infused with herbs. The classic Perrenoud (Pernod) recipe, as reproduced in Mixologist Volume 2, includes Hyssop and Petit Wormwood for coloring. If the herbs were macerated too long or if the maker used Grand Wormwood instead of Petit Wormwood for coloring, it might be bitter.

[slkinsey]

And if the homemade absinthe was infused rather than distilled, please note the following tasting note from Sam Kinsey:

I think we all agreed that the Jade products were head and shoulders above the others in terms of interest and complexity, and we all agreed that the infused "absinthe" was barely drinkable.

I would argue -- or rather, I would echo the arguments of those in a much better position to assert them than I -- that, if it's not redistilled after infusion, it's not absinthe.

[MaxH]

...we all agreed that the infused "absinthe" was barely drinkable.

Hi slkinsey, and thanks for adding further info to this anecdotal tasting comment, likely generally true.

Now to play devil's advocate for a moment: There's a technical trick to doing the infusion of this herb that renders the extract much nearer the distilled version. I'm paraphrasing from a mainstream 1940s source. That's a fairly trivial instance of various pieces of public information missing from recent, well-intended online tutorials assembled by the newer enthusiasts of this beverage, including on the sites cited above (though those tutorials are sound and concise as far as they do go). However, the eagerness to distance distillates from infusions, even if it generalizes slightly, is surely well placed with the practical infused products the tasters describe.

Edited July 12, 2006 by MaxH (log)

[Hiram]

Hi Folks, I'm short on time, so please forgive any terseness. Brooks was kind enough to direct me over here. I'm the founder of the Wormwood Society, and I wrote the article mentioned above in Mixologist 2.

MaxH, I'd be very interested in the details of the infusion trick you mention. Most of the serious "newer enthusiasts" take their instructions from the 19th century protocols established by the actual makers at the time, most notably Traité de la Fabrication des Liqueurs et de la Distillation des Alcools, by Pierre Duplais.

"The man who brewed the SA recipe followed it to the milligram"

"... if the maker used Grand Wormwood instead of Petit Wormwood for coloring, it might be bitter."

Bingo! This is the most common mistake amateurs make, aside from omitting distillation. The two wormwoods are as different from one another as spinach and poison ivy. Grand is the second most bitter herb known, behind rue. Petite is basically fragrant and herbally-tasting and hardly bitter at all.

From the WS web site:

How Is Authentic Absinthe Made?

First, the required herbs are soaked or "macerated" in high-proof (85%) alcohol for a specified time, this mixture is then placed in a steam-heated still.  Distillation relies on the fact that alcohol and certain volatile oils have a lower evaporation temperature than water does and therefore evaporate first.  In the distillation process the essential oils of the herbs are vaporized along with the alcohol and re-condensed in a cooling coil, becoming the liquor and leaving behind the majority of the water along with many of the bitter and undesirable constituents of the herbs.

The result is a perfectly clear, colorless, but very fragrant liquor.  This liquor is very high in alcohol and is diluted to the desired proof, usually between 55 and 68 percent.  Many fine absinthes are then left in this state and sold as is.  These clear absinthes are referred to as a La Bleues or Blanches, that is, blues or whites.  The term La Bleue is generally reserved for those absinthes distilled clandestinely in the rural areas of Switzerland, the Swiss equivalent of moonshine.  However with the recent removal of the ban in Switzerland, several former La Bleues have become available on the commercial market.

More commonly, particularly in France, a coloration step is added which provides the emerald hue for which absinthe is famous.  Here, additional herbs are added to the distilled liquor for a brief time to impart additional flavor and aroma as well as color from the chlorophyll in the herbs.  Among the most common herbs used in this step are hyssop, melissa and petite wormwood (Artemisia pontica).  Artemisia pontica is not bitter like Artemisia absinthium.  This coloration will not work in lower-proof alcohols such as vodka, as the chlorophyll quickly degrades and becomes yellow or brown within a matter of days. These green absinthes are referred to as vertes,  verte being the French for "green".

Premium absinthes should be aged anywhere from several months to a year before being released to the market.

As for recipes, it's true that each maker had/has his own particular herb bill, but like other liquors, a certain flavor profile is required in order to properly call a liquor "absinthe." Absinthe should have anise as the principle flavor.

Czech products fall sadly short of this profile and in most cases make no attempt to resemble the real deal. They have rather adopted the stance that this is Czech "style" absinthe. This, to my thinking and that of most serious absintheurs, would be like claiming that a liquor that tasted like oranges, but used no corn, was actually Florida "style" Bourbon.

While new flavors are always interesting, you can't throw just any herbs in there and call it absinthe, just because it contains wormwood.

I hope this helps some.

Cheers to all!

[H. du Bois]

Thank you, Hiram. Great info.

For what little it's worth, I called Mr. Scientific American, who corrected and clarified some of the things I'd said:

- I was incorrect - it wasn't the Pernod Fils' recipe, but rather a mid-19th century French one.

- He did distill it after maceration (he was a chemist - there are no doubts as to his skills or understanding of this process). The colorants he used were Roman wormwood (petite), hyssop & lemon balm.

- He noted that as well as being bitter, it didn't cloud up when water was added to it, and said that he'd had doubts about the provenance/quality of the herbs he'd bought. He did not consider the experiment a success. I concur - it was nasty.

Speaking of which, I just opened the two Czech bottles - all for the sake of science, of course. The Listerine green stuff tastes like cough syrup without the syrup. The Vincent van Gogh stuff is vile and bitter, and I can't get the taste of it out of my mouth. (No wonder he looks like he's going to lop off the other ear).

Off to gargle with milk. Or something. Ugh.

[MaxH]

MaxH, I'd be very interested in the details of the infusion trick you mention.  Most of the serious "newer enthusiasts" take their instructions from the 19th century protocols established by the actual makers at the time...

Don't get distracted too far by assumptions even beyond mine! I did mean only bitter A. absinthium (basis of absinthe liquors and their name). "Newer enthusiasts" referred to tutorial authors, not absinthe makers. I paraphrased authoritative 1940s comments, not on liquor manufacture but on extracting chemically related species, presumably applicable. (Beyond that I'm loath to discuss that detail even "privately," with so much home-brew "recipe" experimenting already. It trivially illustrated my larger point about info that's in older mainstream publications, but not in recent online introductions.)

Again: I'm no absinthe connoisseur or maker and am creating no new information. I comment from watching the subject some (30-some) years. Much online information on the hobby sites is excellent: tasting notes, cautions to newcomers, commercial absinthe info, information on current absinthe manufacture, refutation of weird new practices (burning sugar cubes, careless home recipes).

Absinthe is an intriguing subject that moved from the back burner to the front in the last few years. During the long back-burner period, though, absinthe remained intriguing, getting some popular and scientific attention. It appeared in far-flung mentions, it has connections to other drinks and herbs. For the last 18 years, the standard US introduction has been Conrad's book (after Delahaye's L'Absinthe: Histoire de la Fée Verte, 1983).

Broad recent changes to this picture were the emergence of new manufacturers, and a growing, enthusiastic hobbyist world. A side effect of these newly active communities, which is a fairly standard side effect in special-interest communities, is conventional wisdoms they foster.

People long following absinthe literature, when they see a new tutorial, FAQ list, etc., will notice what parts of it rehash standard sources, what's new (a lot is new), and what's missing. Recent manufacturers and hobbyists have labored (in the footsteps of their predecessors) to dispel popular misconceptions about absinthe. In the process, I notice, they've retained a few, just a few, myths themselves. (I don't say things like that without documentation in depth, as some people know already. But a mythos or body of assumptions can be tough to spot if you happen to've already bought into it. As I've been reminded, when I raised these issues with some more zealous of the current absinthe hobbyists I've encountered.) That's my only real criticism of the recent online writing, and it's specific, not general. (Perhaps also a tendency to more citations of themselves, and less of their antecedents, than is usual in objective tutorial writing.)

[Hiram]

MaxH, I'd be very interested in the details of the infusion trick you mention.  Most of the serious "newer enthusiasts" take their instructions from the 19th century protocols established by the actual makers at the time...

It trivially illustrated my larger point about info that's in older mainstream publications, but not in recent online introductions.

A great deal of that information is now omitted because it's been found to be erroneous or irrelevant. As you say, the info did not apply to liquor manufacture. I was simply trying to get at what the process was, where you read, it and how it applied to absinthe, as no such process has ever been used on a large scale to my knowledge.

Don't get distracted too far by assumptions even beyond mine!  I did mean only bitter A. absinthium (basis of absinthe liquors and their name).  "Newer enthusiasts" referred to tutorial authors, not absinthe makers.

The newer enthusiasts I was referring to are the distillers, both commercial and hobbyist, who are reviving the knowledge laid down by their predecessors, the 19th absinthe makers.

The online absinthe world is made up of quite a few different communities. I'm just trying to figure out which one(s) you're talking about. Could you give specific examples of the tutorials, retained myths, the conventional wisdoms, etc. to which you're referring?

[MaxH]

... my larger point about info that's in older mainstream publications, but not in recent online introductions.

A great deal of that information is now omitted because it's been found to be erroneous or irrelevant ...

I referred to specific background science related to absinthe, which hasn't changed, and was available (and also in popular absinthe introductions) before, for instance, Ted Breaux tried pre-ban absinthe, or you or most people now posting on feeverte.net were commenting online about absinthe. (I.e., "Newer enthusiasts.")

... As you say, the info did not apply to liquor manufacture.

No, but my source referred to extraction of herbal principles by infusion, exactly the point of discussion. It happened to arise in non-liquor-making context. (Evidence yet again, by the way, that wide reading pays unexpected rewards. :-)

Don't get distracted too far by assumptions even beyond mine!  ... "Newer enthusiasts" referred to tutorial authors, not absinthe makers.

The newer enthusiasts I was referring to are the distillers ...who are reviving the knowledge laid down by their predecessors...

Yes, you mentioned that already to my use of the phrase, in which context I explained that it was off point, although certainly creditable. I was describing absinthe introductions written by people who embraced the subject in recent years.

Some particular questions:

I know about thujone's significance in absinthe, and the separate point has been made that specific measured absinthes (both pre-ban and carefully reproduced) contain little thujone, a point we can take as established, I hope, without further repetition (though you also know, I assume, that thujone can be distilled).

Question 1. [Hiram May 10 2005, this thread]: "Amount of thujone is an issue ... That's why we try to keep people from drinking homemade steeped concoctions: they're poisonous." Why do you call homemade steeped absinthe attempts "poisonous?"

2. Besides legal considerations (i.e., it's salable legally in more countries), does low thujone content per se impart benefits to a quality absinthe, compared to a hypothetical absinthe of equal quality but higher thujone?

3. Ted Breaux is on record as crediting Barnaby Conrad's book for interesting him in absinthe. What got you interested?

[drunkenmonkey]

Anything for sale IN France is NOT absinthe... only anise-flavored drinks trying to cash in on another name and legend... I live in France, and go to the supermarkets every day and see this stuff on the counters. Absinthe is ILLEGAL in France, in any form, and has been for decades. Believe me. Some websites will try to sell you absinthe, but inform you very clearly that, although you may order the stuff, that as it is against the law in certain countries, it may be ceased by customs.

←

Absinthe IS LEGAL IN FRANCE AND EU including artemesia absinthum (the variety of wormwood that gives the drink its name. One variety, Nouvelle Orleans, is produced by an organic chemist who reverse engineered several french bottles of over 100 years ago. How someone could live in france and not kow this....

[Carolyn Tillie]

I had half-a-case delivered by The Alandia Company last week. I love their site because you can order by country of origin or by style. I had had a number of Czech, German, and French absinthes in the past, but am now completely won over with Alandia's Swiss La Bleue Clandestine l´Alcool de Vin.

It is a lovely high...

[Nathan]

I have a bottle of the Jade Edouard on the way...looking forward to washing away the taste of the Czech rotgut I had.

problem is at over $140 a bottle after shipping, I think it's probably not worth wasting on a monkey gland or sazerac, right? just use absente or pernod?

[BrooksNYC]

Those two cocktails call for just enough absinthe to coat the glass, so a round of drinks won't deplete your Edouard by much. You'll be thrilled to have graduated from Czechsinth. Please let us know what you think!

If you're "budgeting" (ha!) Kübler is a lovely, straightforward absinthe. It lacks the complexity of the Jades, but works nicely in cocktails. 100 cl of Kübler is £40 at Liqueurs de France (vs. £55 for 75 cl of the Jades).

By the way, fans of Artemisia-Bugnon's Clandestines (see Carolyn Tillie's post, above) might be interested in a tasting box of the three La Bleues. They're small bottles — 25 cl each — but at €59.90, it's a nice way to sample the La Bleues without committing to full bottles.

(Shipping absinthe IS expensive. Since it costs the same to ship three bottles as it does to ship one, get some friends to order a bottle for themselves, and split the shipping costs.)

Edited January 10, 2007 by BrooksNYC (log)

[Sneakeater]

Me at a bar:

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/index.j...playVideo=17453

[Friend of the Farmer]

CUSTOMS INSPECTION - watch out

Clearing US Customs this past Wednesday I was sent to the Ag inspection line. I always declare in full on my blue form (lose my passport, lose my job) the wine and/or spirit type, and this time had "5 bottles of french aperitifs(spirits)". The first thing asked - "Are they Absinthe?" While I joked that I wouldn't risk both my mind and job, he said they specifically look for it.

And though what I had was perfectly legal, I was greatful I didn't have to explain the Gentian aperitif.

[kvltrede]

CUSTOMS INSPECTION - watch out

Clearing US Customs this past Wednesday I was sent to the Ag inspection line.  I always declare in full on my blue form (lose my passport, lose my job) the wine and/or spirit type, and this time had "5 bottles of french aperitifs(spirits)".  The first thing asked - "Are they Absinthe?"  While I joked that I wouldn't risk both my mind and job, he said they specifically look for it. 

And though what I had was perfectly legal, I was greatful I didn't have to explain the Gentian aperitif.

←

I'm confused. I know it's illegal to sell and to make absinthe in the US but I thought possision was legal. Is this incorrect?

Kurt

[slkinsey]

I have been led to believe that it's not a controlled substance like, say, marijuana, where you would get into real legal trouble if you were caught by Customs bringing some into the country. Rather, you're just not allowed to have it. You won't be arrested, but they will take it away from you. Read upthread.

[alacarte]

I'm confused.  I know it's illegal to sell and to make absinthe in the US but I thought possision was legal.  Is this incorrect?

Just last week I attended a Culinary Historians of NY event focused on Absinthe. According to the speaker, Dr. David Weir, it is illegal to sell absinthe, but not illegal to be in possession of it.

We did a side-by-side tasting of absinthe (yes, the real stuff) and Pernod. Did not sell it, just shared it with us. Even diluted with water, even with sugar cubes added, IMHO absinthe is nasty stuff. Perhaps it's an acquired taste, but I don't foresee ever acquiring it. But Pernod is delightful.

[slkinsey]

Kara, what was the absinthe you tried? Was it home-made?

I ask because, I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't like real absinthe if you like Pernod. There are differences between, say, Pernod pastis and Pernod absinthe (Pernod is once again making absinthe). But I wouldn't call these huge differences. On the other hand, homemade infused absinthe tastes horrible.

[The Hersch]

[Just last week I attended a Culinary Historians of NY event focused on Absinthe. According to the speaker, Dr. David Weir, it is illegal to sell absinthe, but not illegal to be in possession of it.

But it's illegal to import it, isn't it?

[eje]

[Just last week I attended a Culinary Historians of NY event focused on Absinthe. According to the speaker, Dr. David Weir, it is illegal to sell absinthe, but not illegal to be in possession of it.

But it's illegal to import it, isn't it?

←

This is answered on the wormwood society website starting here:

Isn't Absinthe Illegal in the US?

Short answer:

No, absinthe is prohibited from being imported into, or produced for sale and consumption in, the United States.

[BrooksNYC]

We did a side-by-side tasting of absinthe (yes, the real stuff) and Pernod. Did not sell it, just shared it with us. Even diluted with water, even with sugar cubes added, IMHO absinthe is nasty stuff. Perhaps it's an acquired taste, but I don't foresee ever acquiring it.  But Pernod is delightful.

I, for one, would love to know what brand absinthe was served at this seminar. Commercial absinthes vary in quality from sublime to undrinkable.

The loopy US laws concerning absinthe can be summarized as follows:

Absinthe is not a controlled substance, like marijuana. It's legal to possess, drink, or serve it.

It's ILLEGAL to import, make, or sell it. If you're caught bringing it through Customs, they'll snatch it away from you, but that's the end of it. It's not like being busted for drugs.

The most hassle-free way to order it is online, from a reputable (repeat: reputable) merchant. The best retailers ship your order via courier which, while more expensive than regular shipping, greatly minimizes the odds that the order will be confiscated by Customs. (I can recall only two instances in the last five years when this has happened.) Additionally, the best merchants will fully insure your shipment, so that if anything goes wrong in transit, you will be issued a refund or replacement.

With merchants, as with absinthes, it pays to do your homework.