Aging bottles of wine

[jwagnerdsm]

These bottles are lingering amongst the $12 to $14 bottles of wine we buy at the liquor. Can anybody tell me anything about them. They were either gifts or were things we picked up on overseas trips.

Thanks

Chateau La Croix Pomerol (1990)

Rioja Bordon Reserva 1987 (Bodegas Franco)

Niebaum-Coppola Rubicon Red 1985.

[Carema]

The Pomerol is probably your best bet. The Rioja is most likely pretty icky and I think your Rubicon is over the hill at this point. I wouldn't keep them around for very much longer. Pop the corks and see what happens.

[KatieLoeb]

Wine is meant to produce pleasure - not anxiety. I can't ever get over people trying to determine the EXACT FREAKIN' NANOSECOND in the space-time contiuum that a bottle of wine is "at it's peak". If you never try wine that's "too young" or "past it's prime" you'll never know what that means, right? Open bottles and drink them. You will undoubtedly ALWAYS learn something from the experience.

*climbs off soap box and skulks away*

[jwagnerdsm]

Katie,

I am taking your reply as it was intended. As I stated before, I know very little about wine. They were acquired the way many wine novices acquire it: a gift or a souvenir or something. I only asked because I didn't want someone to say something like "holy shit, you drank an 85 Neibaum-Coppolla with hamburgers" when we should have saved it for a special occasion. I plead ignorance.

Carema, thanks for your help. I really do appreciate it.

[Carema]

The first Rubicon was fermented in 1980 and bottled in 1983. I suspect because the winery was so young there were bugs they had to work out and they might have been using fruit from young vines. It seems as if they started planting in 1975 but I do not know when they stopped sourcing fruit and started using their own for their estate stuff. Plus it is Rutherford, dusty fruit with short tannins and mediumish acid. I do not think the Rubiocn had attained such staus in 1985. It would be allright to drink it with a hamburger- the jackass who tells you otherwise should be banished to the Durkee onion casserole for the rest of his/her natural life. And only off vintage beerenauslese to drink with it!

Edited November 7, 2003 by Carema (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Katie,

I am taking your reply as it was  intended. As I stated before, I know very little about wine. They were acquired the way many wine novices acquire it: a gift or a souvenir or something. I only asked because I didn't want someone to say something like "holy shit, you drank an 85 Neibaum-Coppolla with hamburgers" when we should have saved it for a special occasion. I plead ignorance.

No No No! I'm so sorry. The rant wasn't directed at YOU, but at the uptight, ratings driven snobs that seek the aforementioned nanosecond. My only point was to say that one should, and inevitably will, learn something from every single bottle of wine they drink. As long as they relax long enough to do it and stop TORMENTING themselves with needless anxiety. Make sense?

Drink (or at least open and taste) each and every one of those bottles. If they've turned foul on you, you will be the first to know it. And Carema's advice is far more specific to the individual wines in question. I was just making a more sweeping generalization that you misunderstood as being directed at you personally. My apologies for any unintended offense.

Drink whatever you want with whatever you want. A bottle of Niebaum-Coppola Rubicon with burgers sounds pretty tasty to me! Actually my personal favorite "hamburger wine" is a nice inexpensive bottle of Barbera from Italy. Try that sometime and let me know if you agree.

Learning about wine is a never ending process, and even the best trained sommelier in the world has to plead ignorance on some wines. NO one can possibly have tried everything. But it's fun to try...

[Msk]

Drinking those wines will certainly be a great experience for you. Just don't rely on them for a dinner party.

I have run into many bottles of wine that were supposed to be over the hill yet somehow, through some form of magic, were not only good, but unique wine experiences.

Good luck!

Msk

[Coop]

I think that the early Rubicons' grapes came from the Inglenook vineyard holdings and even some of the vineyards planted by John Daniel and the Niebaum family. Is this just a fairy tale? I know in the 80's Coppola's goal was to reunite the Daniel family holdings. Robin Lail Smith (John Daniel's daughter) entered into an agreement to supply Christian Mouiex with grapes for Dominus. The other holdings I believe were used in some way to make Rubicon. BTW I remember the 82 Inglenook special selection to be a very ageworthy wine. I only wish I still had a bottle or two.

I have always believed that the Rutrherford area makes the finest of the Napa cabernets. The Inglenook holdings, Beaulieu Vineyard #2 and the famous To Kalon vineyard are all in this bench area, I believe. I must admit though Napa is an area I was more interested in during the 80's and 90's so a lot has probably changed since then.

[Varmint]

Katie can be such an SOB* sometimes.

*Smug Oenophilic Bastard

[KatieLoeb]

Katie can be such an SOB* sometimes.

*Smug Oenophilic Bastard   

That's Sillly Oenophilic Bitch, to you!

[futronic]

Katie,

I don't see a problem in waiting for appropriate age on a bottle before drinking it. For example, I buy and drink a lot of Italian wine, but you won't see me drinking any of my '96 or '97 Barbaresco for at least 5-8 years (or longer) because the wines just aren't ready yet. Why would I "waste" a bottle by opening at a point way, way before it would provide optimum pleasure? I've got plenty of other wine that is ready to drink right now and that will be much tastier as a result.

Signed,

The uptight, ratings driven snob that seek the aforementioned nanosecond.

Edited November 8, 2003 by futronic (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Katie,

I don't see a problem in waiting for appropriate age on a bottle before drinking it.  For example, I buy and drink a lot of Italian wine, but you won't see me drinking any of my '96 or '97 Barbaresco for at least 5-8 years (or longer) because the wines just aren't ready yet.  Why would I "waste" a bottle by opening at a point way, way before it would provide optimum pleasure?  I've got plenty of other wine that is ready to drink right now and that will be much tastier as a result.

Signed,

The uptight, ratings driven snob that seek the aforementioned nanosecond. 

Futronic:

Again, I think you've misunderstood my intent. Of course certain wines improve with age. I'm a wine professional and clearly have been exposed to this concept. And if you're knowlegable enough to know which ones they are, both to purchase them and then lay them down for the appropriate amount of time, under the appropriate conditions, that's great. Obviously you're one of those people. But 95% of the wine on the planet was meant to be drunk WITHIN THREE YEARS OF ITS BOTTLING. My statements applied mostly to that 95% and to the persons that aren't that knowlegeable. Having a $10 bottle of wine sitting in the wine rack in your kitchen, suffering the extremes of temperature that go along with that, and then agonizing over whether or not to open it because you don't know if you've hit that nanosecond is just silly. Relying on ratings systems is silly unless you are familiar enough with the "rater's" palate to know that it is similar to your own. Quantifying a subjective experience is an excercise in futility and again, silly.

I stand by my original statement that you won't ever truly understand what an underdeveloped wine or an "over the hill' wine is unless you TRY one. Sometime that requires the ultimate act of courage and leap of faith and you simply OPEN THE DAMN BOTTLE AND DRINK IT. No anxiety, no scrambling through back issues of Wine Spectator, no hours of on-line research, and no panicked phone calls to your favorite wine shop or restaurant sommelier. As Nike says - just DO IT!

[winebill]

"holy shit, you drank an 85 Neibaum-Coppolla with hamburgers" when we should have saved it for a special occasion. I plead ignorance.

jwagnerdsm Posted on Nov 6 2003, 08:30 PM

I'll just never get this "Special Occasion" stuff. I call it "DPS" (Dom Perignon Syndrome)

Open Any bottle,anytime and drink it! Then you will have your special occasion .

Edited November 9, 2003 by winebill (log)

[futronic]

Katie,

I don't see a problem in waiting for appropriate age on a bottle before drinking it.  For example, I buy and drink a lot of Italian wine, but you won't see me drinking any of my '96 or '97 Barbaresco for at least 5-8 years (or longer) because the wines just aren't ready yet.  Why would I "waste" a bottle by opening at a point way, way before it would provide optimum pleasure?  I've got plenty of other wine that is ready to drink right now and that will be much tastier as a result.

Signed,

The uptight, ratings driven snob that seek the aforementioned nanosecond. 

Futronic:

Again, I think you've misunderstood my intent. Of course certain wines improve with age. I'm a wine professional and clearly have been exposed to this concept. And if you're knowlegable enough to know which ones they are, both to purchase them and then lay them down for the appropriate amount of time, under the appropriate conditions, that's great. Obviously you're one of those people. But 95% of the wine on the planet was meant to be drunk WITHIN THREE YEARS OF ITS BOTTLING. My statements applied mostly to that 95% and to the persons that aren't that knowlegeable. Having a $10 bottle of wine sitting in the wine rack in your kitchen, suffering the extremes of temperature that go along with that, and then agonizing over whether or not to open it because you don't know if you've hit that nanosecond is just silly. Relying on ratings systems is silly unless you are familiar enough with the "rater's" palate to know that it is similar to your own. Quantifying a subjective experience is an excercise in futility and again, silly.

I stand by my original statement that you won't ever truly understand what an underdeveloped wine or an "over the hill' wine is unless you TRY one. Sometime that requires the ultimate act of courage and leap of faith and you simply OPEN THE DAMN BOTTLE AND DRINK IT. No anxiety, no scrambling through back issues of Wine Spectator, no hours of on-line research, and no panicked phone calls to your favorite wine shop or restaurant sommelier. As Nike says - just DO IT!

Katie,

I concur with your statement.

As an aside, much to the chagrin of my pocketbook, it seems like I keep purchasing wine coming from that 5%.

... and eventually I'll figure out that regular smilie symbols like :) and ;) don't work on this forum, and I'll have to stop editing my messages ...

Edited November 9, 2003 by futronic (log)