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Pronouncing "Foie Gras"

Mark Sommelier

By Mark Sommelier
in Food Traditions & Culture

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LOS

LOS

Posted
Posted
I have been told on good authority that the "t" in Montrachet wine is silent.

I have been told on good authority that the 't' in Montrachet is pronounced; the word is derived from "mon trachet", after a medieval farming tool, the trachet.

I have also been told on good authority that the 't' in Montrachet is not pronounced, supporting the thesis that the word is derived from "Mont Rachet".

The two authorities in question were none other than M. Niellon of Domaine Niellon in Chassagne, and M. Colin of Domaine Marc Colin in Chassagne. I believe that when in Burgundy I have heard the latter pronounciation far more often than the former, but I have heard both.

That should definitely settle this question :unsure:

--- Lee

Seattle

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JPW

JPW

Posted
Posted

I have been told on good authority that the 't' in Montrachet is pronounced; the word is derived from "mon trachet", after a medieval farming tool, the trachet.

Le trachet?

Looked through several quality online dictionaries dating back to 1604 and could find such a tool nowhere. A "tranchet" is a knife like tool specifically designed for cutting leather. Trachet does, however, seem to be a not-too-infrequent family name in francophone Belgium and the Pays du Nord.

In any case, even in NE France, I find it hard to believe that they would pronounce a final consonant, especially a "t".

Not to cast any aspersions on the source, but I find that etymology extremely dubious.

If someone writes a book about restaurants and nobody reads it, will it produce a 10 page thread?

Joe W

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LOS

LOS

Posted
Posted

In any case, even in NE France, I find it hard to believe that they would pronounce a final consonant, especially a "t".

Not to cast any aspersions on the source, but I find that etymology extremely dubious.

Neither of them pronounced the final 't'. It's the middle 't' where they differed. I should have been clearer.

The etymology offered, to the extent it has any grounding in fact at all, must have been passed down by word of mouth for centuries. So it's unsurprising that the story might have changed a great deal from the original.

My major point was that there are at least some people, at the source, who pronounce the middle 't' in the name. I personally haven't let this change my pronounciation -- no 't's for me, either.

--- Lee

Seattle

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Comfort Me

Comfort Me

Posted
Posted
Do we poke equal fun at the English-speaking folks who can't pronounce English words?  (I do!)  Crayon.  Aunt.  Poem.  Drawer.  Ask.  Coupon.  Wash.  Often.  Nuclear.  I bet we all mispronounce at least one of these words.

February! There's an R in there! "Feb-u-ary" is like taking a bleeping rake across a blackboard.

I have spent time in France, but I am certain there are plenty -- nay, MANY -- French words I do not pronounce correctly. And I would be most appreciative of a well-intentioned lesson in pronounciation. What I don't need is someone who looks down on me, snorts, say's "of course" and walks away to talk about me behind my back, while all the while hoping to suck an extra buck out of my wallet. I rarely pay extra for condescension.

The best menus are those which give the guest a choice. Difficult to do with wines, but easy with food. Beche-de-mer can be described as sea cucumber, soubise as a creamy onion sauce.

Aidan

"Ess! Ess! It's a mitzvah!"

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Mayhaw Man

Mayhaw Man

Posted
Posted
Do we poke equal fun at the English-speaking folks who can't pronounce English words?  (I do!)  Crayon.  Aunt.  Poem.  Drawer.  Ask.  Coupon.  Wash.  Often.  Nuclear.  I bet we all mispronounce at least one of these words.

February! There's an R in there! "Feb-u-ary" is like taking a bleeping rake across a blackboard.

I have spent time in France, but I am certain there are plenty -- nay, MANY -- French words I do not pronounce correctly. And I would be most appreciative of a well-intentioned lesson in pronounciation. What I don't need is someone who looks down on me, snorts, say's "of course" and walks away to talk about me behind my back, while all the while hoping to suck an extra buck out of my wallet. I rarely pay extra for condescension.

The best menus are those which give the guest a choice. Difficult to do with wines, but easy with food. Beche-de-mer can be described as sea cucumber, soubise as a creamy onion sauce.

Well then, let's not discuss Winter Months if we ever chance to meet. I just spent five minutes trying to pronounce it to your liking and I have failed miserably. I am afraid that it comes out feb-uh-wary every time. :shock:

I do not however say Illuhnoise or Hiwayuh, so we can discuss states of the Union if you wish :raz::laugh:

Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

There's a train everyday, leaving either way...

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Comfort Me

Comfort Me

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Posted

Well then, let's not discuss Winter Months if we ever chance to meet. I just spent five minutes trying to pronounce it to your liking and I have failed miserably. I am afraid that it comes out feb-uh-wary every time. :shock:

I do not however say Illuhnoise or Hiwayuh, so we can discuss states of the Union if you wish :raz::laugh:

Aidan

"Ess! Ess! It's a mitzvah!"

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tryska

tryska

Posted
Posted (edited)

i actually remember reading somewhere about american dialects - it appears the point/pernt, burnt/boint, toilet/terlet thing is i believe an Irish immigrant thing - which i guess becomes apparent when you look at Brooklyn, NO, and parts of Boston.

And I agree with SLKinsey - i was just given this explanation a few days ago on another board when finding it difficult to order ricotta, or prosciutto down here, because in my head it's said one way, and anyplace outside of the Northeast it's said another and no one understands what i'm asking for.

Edited by tryska (log)
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JPW

JPW

Posted
Posted

Not pronunciation, but spelling

One of my favorite bartending moments.

Summer at Martha's Vineyard

Two rather attractive women decide to have appetizers at the bar for dinner. Take the wine list for a look. One says to me in a thick Boston accent "Excuse me do you have any 'Sha-blee'?"

"Sure' I respond. "It's right at the bottom of the page there"

"I can't find it. It's not there!", she says dropping the list on the bar.

I lean over the bar and point to the entry labeled "Chablis".

Puzzled looks all around.

If someone writes a book about restaurants and nobody reads it, will it produce a 10 page thread?

Joe W

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LOS

LOS

Posted
Posted
The #1 French chateau that is routinely slaughtered:

Chateau Trotanoy  ( hint: it is not "trot-annoy")

Here in Minneapolis, if you've got enough sophistication to order Trotanoy, you've got enough sophistication to pronounce it. IME, Petrus is rarely pronounced correctly, as is Cos d'Estournel. But without any doubt at all, the most-mangled wine name of all time must be:

Viognier

--- Lee

Seattle

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JPW

JPW

Posted
Posted

How about a vote for (as seen on Queer Eye) ---

Gewurztraminer (heck, I don't even know if I spelled it correctly)

If someone writes a book about restaurants and nobody reads it, will it produce a 10 page thread?

Joe W

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Janedujour

Janedujour

Posted
Posted
i was just given this explanation a few days ago on another board when finding it difficult to order ricotta, or prosciutto down here, because in my head it's said one way, and anyplace outside of the Northeast it's said another and no one understands what i'm asking for.

You mean mootz, ri-gott, and projoot?

Here in CT I mistakenly asked for "mahtsahrella" ( like in Wisconsin ) and got a lot of stares! :laugh:

JANE

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tommy

tommy

Posted
Posted

these are italian-american pronunciations. right or wrong, that's they way they're pronounced in a community that is very large. obviously there are pockets of italian-americans living in the northeast, and i'd guess some other places around the US. this is probably becoming the exception, though, as people tend to move away from their families as generations pass.

tommy:eats.com
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AzRaeL

AzRaeL

Posted
Posted

now that we're talking about pronounciation, what is the correct way to pronounce Michellin:

Mish a lin or Mi shay lawn

Do not expect INTJs to actually care about how you view them. They already know that they are arrogant bastards with a morbid sense of humor. Telling them the obvious accomplishes nothing.

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oraklet

oraklet

Posted
Posted (edited)
[

I took Spanish and German.  I couldn't pronounce a French word properly if my life depended upon it.

But how many other people can order trocken-beeren-auslese or kartofflepuffen mit schlagsam properly? Play to your strengths...

trocken-beeren auslese is fine with me, but i would not like to order the other stuff. something like "potatoes with whipped cream"? :blink:

wait a minute. "schlagsam"? not schlagsahne"? i'm officially lost.

Edited by oraklet (log)

christianh@geol.ku.dk. just in case.

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oraklet

oraklet

Posted
Posted
now that we're talking about pronounciation, what is the correct way to pronounce Michellin:

Mish a lin or Mi shay lawn

hmmm..i think that's pronounced mi-SHAY-een.

mish-LANg (the "Ng" stands for the nasal sound that to non-french is facilitated by having a cold)

christianh@geol.ku.dk. just in case.

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Busboy

Busboy

Posted
Posted
[

I took Spanish and German.  I couldn't pronounce a French word properly if my life depended upon it.

But how many other people can order trocken-beeren-auslese or kartofflepuffen mit schlagsam properly? Play to your strengths...

trocken-beeren auslese is fine with me, but i would not like to order the other stuff. something like "potatoes with whipped cream"? :blink:

wait a minute. "schlagsam"? not schlagsahne"? i'm officially lost.

I'm sure your spelling of the schlag-thing is correct, it's been some years since I've seen it written down.

Actually, they're quite good. (Spelling apologies in advance) Kartofflepuffen are potato pancakes, similar to -- or perhaps exactly the same as -- latkes. The schlagsahne was similar to sour cream, rather than whipped cream. I may have ordered wrong, but we were close enough that our servers knew what we were after. German precision and all.

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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Pan

Pan

Posted
Posted
Other commonly mispronounced words:

Forte -- it ain't fort-ay unless you want someone to play more loudly. It's "fort." Check. I'll wait.

Behemoth -- Bee-em-oth, not bu-heee-muth.

Not according to Merriam-Webster:

One entry found for behemoth.

Main Entry: be·he·moth

Pronunciation: bi-'hE-m&th, 'bE-&-m&th, -"mäth, -"moth

Main Entry: 1forte

Pronunciation: 'fOrt, 'fort; 2 is often 'for-"tA or for-'tA or 'for-tE

usage In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \'for-"tA\ and \'for-tE\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived 2forte. Their recommended pronunciation \'fort\, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would rhyme it with English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English \'fo-"tA\ and \'fot\ predominate; \'for-"tA\ and \for-'tA\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English.

And on another topic, everyone speaks with some kind of accent or other. For those Americans who doubt that, see what happens if you visit South Africa or New Zealand.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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