Farm Raised Salmon

[jwagnerdsm]

We don't have a Whole Foods here in Des Moines, but there has been talk of one coming. I always thought it was a sort of organic / health food / gourmet place. Am I wrong? I ask because I saw a half-page ad in the NYT today regarding the dangers of Farm Raised Salmon. It encouraged a boycott and said that Trader Joe's and Whole Foods were among the stores selling it. Anybody avoid Farm Raised Salmon? Anybody clue me in on Whole Foods?

Jay

[melkor]

Almost all salmon in stores is farm raised, there just isn't very much wild salmon and it's not the least bit affordable anywhere other than the west coast. I have seen wild salmon in the frozen section at Trader Joes, but I'm not sure if thats available everywhere or only in CA.

I've been avoiding farm raised salmon since I moved to California and have had access to wild pacific salmon for six months of the year at $3/lb for whole fish. I buy a few large fish around the end of fishing season, fillet them and toss them in the chest freezer to get me through the winter. Even frozen wild salmon tastes better than fresh farmed salmon.

[Pan]

I saw a half-page ad in the NYT today regarding the dangers of Farm Raised Salmon.

I didn't see today's Times, and I'm not sure how to access ads online. Could you please start a thread letting us in on the points the ad made? Thanks a lot.

[Rachel Perlow]

Why does Whole Foods sell it?

Because people will buy it.

To expand on that, people expect to see salmon in the fish department, if it's not there they will be asked why it's not, constantly, probably dozens of times a day.

[jwagnerdsm]

Rachel,

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-farm raised salmon (heck, I'm not anti-much of anything, although I can't think of much that I'm really in favor of either.) I was most curious about Whole Foods, since I have had this idea that it was some kind of hot bed of Birkenstock wearing commies. But in the last few weeks, while reading posts on this board, I've gotten the idea that it's more of typical food store, like your Cub Foods or Piggly Wiggly.

The main text of the ad said: "Salmon raised on farms are very different from wild salmon. For starters, they're raised in floating feedlots that pollute the ocean. They're fed chemical additives to make their flesh pink like wild salmon's. Anti-biotics and pesticides are used to control disease outbreak on the farms. If that's not bad enough, farmed salmon contain disturbing levels PCBs. Despite human health and environmental concerns, many restaurants and stores are still willing to sell farmed salmon to you -- including some health and natural food stores you've come to trust. And that's enough to make anyone lose their appetite."

"Tell These Stores to Stop Selling Farmed Salmon: Visit www.weeatseaweedandpinecones.com (alright, I made that part up. It's www.farmedanddangerous.org.)" Then is lists Whole Foods, Safeway, Kroger, Trader Joe's, Albertson's and Costco.

[beans]

[foodpsycho]

It sounds as if the anti-farm raised fish people have a personal agenda. They might be right but they're not unbiased.

[ExtraMSG]

Personally, i think there is a real problem with those environmentally minded who attack farm raised salmon. I live in the PNW and truly there isn't that much wild salmon except in Alaska. And most of the salmon that comes from the rivers isn't truly wild either, it's hatchery fish that is somewhere in quality between a farm-raised salmon and a truly wild salmon in quality. Either salmon will have to become even more of a luxury item than it already is because there will be less and less of it, or more efficient means of raising salmon have to be accepted, ie, farm raising salmon. Personally, I think most environmental movements are quite at odds with each other; there's certainly no standard approach. They've fought to get -- oh what is it -- chilean sea bass, I think, removed from restaurants because it is allegedly endangered (very little evidence of that). If it could be successfully farmed, would they also be against that? You can't have it both ways and also say people should eat. They want the moon: organic veganism with no starving people in Africa. Ain't possible.....maybe with sterilization.

[beans]

I'm biased. Much of what I have to thank that I've benefitted from have come from the successes of my grandfather's life long commercial salmon fishing efforts.

As far as the fish hatcheries playing their role in Alaska, ExtraMSG, those little fishies aren't fresh from the fishery to the seiner's or gillnetter's nets. There are a varying amount of years at sea, before they return to a river to spawn.

That's wild enough for me, and very succesful, careful state management of its resources.

Farm raised is just plain vile, all IMHO.

Hasn't this issue been kicked around eG before?

edited for clarity

Edited November 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[fifi]

OK... I am confused. What is so bad about farm raised salmon? That is a serious question. I really don't know if I would know the difference. And hasn't aquaculture been encouraged to supply much needed protein? After all, the Polynesians were practicing aquaculture hundreds of years ago.

Enlighten me, please.

[hillvalley]

The farm raised salmon do not have the same health benefits as wild salmon. Wild salmon is chock full of Omega 3, which helps everthing from your heart, to memory to fighting depression. Farm raised salmon does not have nearly as much Omega 3, if at all.

Here in DC wild salmon is available for a few weeks every spring. All the local Whole Foods (known here as Fresh Fields) sell it. The rest of the year they sell farm raised salmon.

I personally prefer the wild salmon to the farm raised. The meat is moister, with a more intense yet delicate flavor.

[fifi]

OOOOOKKKKK! Nuances of flavor or moistness may not make a big difference to me and I can go take a pill to get more Omega 3. I still don't get what makes farm raised salmon an evil thing.

[ronnie_suburban]

OOOOOKKKKK! Nuances of flavor or moistness may not make a big difference to me and I can go take a pill to get more Omega 3. I still don't get what makes farm raised salmon an evil thing.

The 2 arguments against farm-raised salmon that I hear most often are:

1) the by-products of the farming are bad for the environment.

2) the fish are fed colored food to impart color in their flesh.

These were both also alluded to upthread. I've read enough about this topic only to know that there is some validity to both points but whether or not they are the truly the "root of evil" is another matter.

=R=

[melkor]

1)  the by-products of the farming are bad for the environment.

2)  the fish are fed colored food to impart color in their flesh.

3) farm raised fish taste like shit

[fifi]

I can see the point of 1) if the farms are not well managed and the fish are overcrowded or whatever. That has been an issue with some shrimp farming operations where the outflow from the ponds have caused problems.

As to 2), (I am going out on a limb of ignorance here) as I understand it, salmon get their color from the crustaceans that they eat and that the feed contains the same compounds. (Maybe not?)

An interesting aside on the color issue. There used to be big shrimp drying operations down in the swamps of south Louisiana. The shrimp are boiled in salty water and layed out on big screens to dry. They are then tumbled to knock the shells off. The shells were sold to zoos etc. for flamingo feed. It is the same stuff that keeps the flamingos "in the pink" so to speak. The shrimp are exported to Asia or used locally as bar snacks. I wonder if they still do that?

[beans]

Farm raised salmon is vile. Repeated. Texture, flavour, colour, et al.

They are a fiesty fish that enjoys nipping at this or that. I enjoy those rewards. Farm raised can *never* replicate that on any level.

If I want a bottom feeder, I'll look to a dungie or a King Crab.

As far as shrimp -- no one has ever tasted shrimp goodness until they've tried sweet, sweet, *COLD* water spot shrimp. They enjoy deep waters with stone shelves. And they are extraordinary.

Please seek these out, if at all possible. There are many websites that are eager to ship. Splurge and do it!

[tammylc]

Whole Foods straddles the line between "hotbed of Birkenstocks" and regular grocery store. The biggest difference is that they don't carry foods with artificial flavors or colors, and tend to have many more organic options than your usual grocery store.

With respect to salmon, I just wanted to note that Whole Foods frequently carries both wild and farm-raised salmon, based on availability. I expect they offer farm-raised because of both the price point and availability concerns.

Here's a page from their website about sustainable seafood - doesn't address your question about why they carry farmed at all, though: http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/issues/lis...st_seafood.html

[Adam Balic]

OOOOOKKKKK! Nuances of flavor or moistness may not make a big difference to me and I can go take a pill to get more Omega 3. I still don't get what makes farm raised salmon an evil thing.

1. It takes about three kilos of wild fish to get a kilo of farmed salmon.

2. Issues with pollution and use of pesticides.

3. Issues with protecting wild stocks from contamination with farmed salmon.

etc.

There is no reason why these issues can't be sorted out, but as the direction of salmon farming is going to the 'cheap' production side of things, it is un-likely.

Some additional information.

Costs of Salmon

Edited November 3, 2003 by Adam Balic (log)

[hillbill]

Wegmans statement about Fish Farming:

Fish Farming

( 08-24-2003 )

Fish farming has been in the news, with charges by an activist group that farmed salmon is contaminated with high levels of probable cancer-causing PCBs. As typical with these issues, the industry denies the charges, calling them irresponsible and based on junk science. Caught in between is the consumer who believes that eating more seafood with omega-3 fatty acids is really good for your health.

It's thirty years since modern-day aquaculture began; I remember the first column I wrote about it. It has brought lower priced seafood to consumers than when fish is wild-caught. With all farming, there are responsible stewards of the land or the sea, and then those who are less so. The path we follow at Wegmans is to carefully select top quality supplier partners, inspect their facilities, have them visit us to understand our objectives, and develop strong relationships and communication over the years. Agreed-upon specifications are developed. We do independent testing too, when an issue arises.

We've had the same salmon supplier in Scotland for the last several years and have visited their facilities. An independent laboratory routinely tests not only their ready-to-harvest fish but also the fish used as an ingredient in the feed. No PCBs have been detected. Using identity sourcing and quality control techniques developed by the Norwegians, each farm-raised salmon is source-tagged with a number, allowing tracing from the egg to the hatchery to the open-water pens. All feed given to this particular salmon is tracked as well and tested not just for contamination but also for nutrient content. The amounts of Omega 3's are at the same levels as wild-caught sockeye salmon (1.9 grams per 3.5 ounce serving).

In early August when the New York Times ran its story on the claims of the Environmental Working Group, we immediately pulled six samples of our salmon on hand and had tests run at a nearby certified lab. No PCBs detected.

We want you to know you can buy salmon at Wegmans confident that we are being vigilant in our pursuit of safe, wholesome seafood for you.

[hillbill]

Oops! Double post, dunno why.

Edited November 3, 2003 by hillbill (log)

[VivreManger]

The wild-fresh salmon debate has appeared regularly on this forum. The NYTimes article that sparked one of the discussions is at

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/30/dining/3...print&position=

But I don't know if it is still available for free.

You might troll through the search engine if you want to review the history of this discussion.

One point that I think was established earlier is that almost all canned salmon is in fact wild.

Two other issues:

Availability of wild salmon

Whole Foods policies.

Since that NYtimes article appeared, the Whole Food stores and the local fishmonger in Massachusetts have much more frequently stocked wild salmon, though they continue to offer the cheaper farm-raised as well. On the other hand the biggest supermarket chain, Stop & Shop, has wild salmon infrequently.

I am curious if Adam can establish whether or not the Scottish farms avoid the problems of the industry.

Austin-based Whole Foods bought out the local equivalent, Bread & Circus, a few years ago. There was a noticable lowering of standards. In general while Whole Foods is heavy on the wallet, it is light on its health food standards, at least by comparison to its local predecessor. For instance, previously no products with sugar were sold. Now they are available.

[Adam Balic]

I am curious if Adam can establish whether or not the Scottish farms avoid the problems of the industry. 

As in all complex issues, there seems to be hugh variation in the industry here.

Scottish Farmed Salmon

[klc14]

Quoting VivreManger:

"One point that I think was established earlier is that almost all canned salmon is in fact wild. "

True. Of course Costco's Kirkland brand is farmed. You can tell because they list coloring as an ingredient. Farmed fish tends to gray tones without coloring.

I know, I really should not be mentioning Costco in the same thread as Whole Foods!

[Bruce Cole]

Here is a link to the ad that appeared in the NY Times, it is a pdf.file

Farmed Salmon ad in NY Times

and some links to more articles on the issue

Farmed Salmon articles

[badthings]

In addition to Bruce's excellent links, this article, though it focusses on the dire situation of wild fisheries, succinctly explains why farming makes things worse:

D. Pauly, et al., "Towards sustainability in world fisheries," Nature 418 (August 2002), 689-95:

Third, much of what is described as aquaculture, at least in Europe, North America and other parts of the developed world, consists of feedlot operations in which carnivorous fish (mainly salmon, but also various sea bass and other species) are fattened on a diet rich in fish meal and oil. The idea makes commercial sense, as the farmed fish fetch a much higher market price than the fish ground up for fish meal (even though they may consist of species that are consumed by people, such as herring, sardine or mackerels, forming the bulk of the pelagic fishes in Fig. 1). The point is that operations of this type, which are directed to wealthy consumers, use up much more fish flesh than they produce, and hence cannot replace capture fisheries, especially in developing countries, where very few can afford imported smoked salmon. Indeed, this form of aquaculture represents another source of pressure on wild fish populations.

[if the Nature link doesn't work, Mr. Pauly has a pdf of it here]

At around the same time (last August), Melissa Pasanen wrote an excellent article for Art of Eating that looked at the problems with fish farming more from the "wealthy consumer" perspective.

People worried about the price will be interested to see what alaskan fisherman get paid -- 55¢/lb. for Copper River Coho, for example.

EDIT:

Here's a SalmoFan.

Here's a convincing argument from Sysco.

Edited November 3, 2003 by badthings (log)