Sichuan Peppercorn

[Fat Guy]

Or they're not even aware of the situation. Very few people seem to be, outside of the worlds of eGullet, Sichuan cookery, and professional spice distribution.

I don't buy the old-peppercorns theory: several of us have tasted them and they're quite potent; more so than we've been told such old peppercorns could be.

If FoodMart was openly defying the law, chances are they wouldn't be selling the bags for 99 cents. Black-market goods tend to carry a premium.

Cluelessness seems the most likely explanation. I bet they just came in with a big spice shipment and nobody noticed or cared.

[jhlurie]

I managed to get a small supply too, and while I haven't tasted them in anything yet, they seem to SMELL right. When they are no longer potent, the smell either dissapears or becomes kind of musty. These smell right on.

By the way, don't bother to go to Foodmart anymore. I think the few of us who went after Steven's post have succeeded in cleaning them out. It looked like I snatched the last two bags. Now transfered to Mason Jars in a lame attempt to keep them fresh until I can borrow someone's vacuum sealer.

I promise I won't open a jar up next to anyone's lemon tree...

[engberson]

This blows.

I mean, I'm happy for you guys, and all, but this does nothing for folks like me in San Francisco. It's all just one big tease. Even the picture, jeez, was that really necessary?

On the other hand, I've already got a bag of peppercorns. But I'm worried about the day I run out. Don't you feel it, now, too? It's a good sized bag for a buck, sure, but do you really want to be invested like this?

You're making a dish you love that does great with a really big pinch of the peppercorns (neatly discovered after a dozen or so recipes and halfway through the bag), and you hold back a little, thinking that if you drop a couple back in the bag the dish will probably be just as good, and you may be able to stretch this dish, this habit, out a couple more months? Instead of cooking you're managing resources. Putting off the inevitable. Envisioning putting Dunlop's book in a plastic bag and throwing it in a closet or something. Or giving it away, it doesn't matter. All you got is your memories. And your wok that no longer smells of sichuan pepper.

But it's ok, Cantonese food is, you know, all right.

[jo-mel]

-------On the other hand, I've already got a bag of peppercorns. But I'm worried about the day I run out. Don't you feel it, now, too? It's a good sized bag for a buck, sure, but do you really want to be invested like this?---------

When this ban first started, I was able to buy some on e-bay. The price was inflated, of course, but not THAT high. Last I heard, you could still get them there.

Also, the 'CMC company', referred to by Dunlop, has them. I ordered from there, too -- recently.

Quality-wise, they seem fine.

[trillium]

I've seen two places online that carry them and I've heard rumors that they're popping up again in Asian grocery stores, plus we've had a spotting in NYC.

At Adriana's Caravan they're very expensive, but present, click here.

And they're also at the CMC company, click here.

Maybe it's time to buy the Dunlop book...

regards,

trillium

[Fat Guy]

Did we ever get to the bottom of the actual regulation/ruling on this from the FDA or whichever agency is responsible? I felt like we got a lot of secondary source info, but do we know where to look for the actual up-to-date rules?

[NeroW]

I was wondering about this the other day too, while waiting in line at the bank.

What's going on? Were they ever illegal in the first place?

[trillium]

I've spent a lot of time searching the FDA and USDA websites and coming up with crap. I sent of a few emails using my professional sig line and didn't get any reply. My dealings with the CDC have been a piece of cake compared to getting the actual story from the USDA directly.

regards,

trillium

[ludja]

I think I bought some ~ a year ago (in Northern California).

Don't know if this has been discussed before, but what is the ostensible reason for them being banned?

i.e. should I be afraid to use the ones I have or was it some legal/export issue?

[FoodZealot]

Here's the Sichuan Peppercorn thread that discusses how they seem to have been banned for a while due to a concern that they might affect the citrus industry.

[ludja]

Here's the Sichuan Peppercorn thread that discusses how they seem to have been banned for a while due to a concern that they might affect the citrus industry.

thanks; I just read it; wow; guess I should go buy some more while I can.

[chengdude]

If I'm not mistaken, I called the CMC Company and their stock is the dwindling remains of what they had prior to the official ban on sales...stock on hand was exempted, so from them at least, you will probably be buying pretty old peppercorns.

[Sugar Toad]

Have any of you ever tried to grow them from the seeds that come out of them ? Any luck ?

[elyse]

Okay. I started reading the thread without finding anything about the law. can someone either sum up or point me to where it is in the six pages?

Thanks in advance!

[FoodZealot]

Elizabeth Ann first mentions it on page 2 of the thread. Essentially, the peppercorns are thought to be a potential carrier of citrus canker, a bacterial disease which damages citrus fruit and their orchards. No chemical or other treatment is available. All susceptible plants within 1900 feet of an infected plant are destroyed, so the stakes are high.

Not sure if this is accurate, but according to this blog, it is technically legal to sell existing stocks (prior to May 2002) of spices if they test negative.

Here's more info on the citrus canker found by torakris in the sanshou/spices thread, where it is also discussed briefly:

http://doacs.state.fl.us/canker/menu1.htm

Here's a great site with info about sichuan peppercorns and related spices.

edit: spellig

Edited December 5, 2003 by FoodZealot (log)

[elyse]

A direction AND a summary. Thank you Zealot!

[Sinbad]

New Yorker's.

Does anyone know if Adriana's Caravan in Grand Central have them in stock now?

[pjs]

  No chemical or other treatment is available.  All susceptible plants within 1900 feet of an infected plant are destroyed, so the stakes are high.

Yup. South Florida homeowners with heirloom citrus trees in their backyard tend to go ballistic when the Feds show up with chainsaws.

PJ

[FoodZealot]

A direction AND a summary.  Thank you Zealot! 

At your service... [grin]

[Fat Guy]

Zealot, do you think you'd have any luck finding a from-the-horse's-mouth FDA comment on this? Surely it's on the FDA site somewhere, hidden away with the raw-milk cheese regs.

[jo-mel]

Last year I wrote to 'worldspice.com' about the ban, and have been in contact with him from time to time. I asked him what the latest news was, and this is what he said today: (I think a trip to Vancouver is in my future!)

"No movement on the sichuan pepper front and honestly, none expected. You're jousting with the citrus lobby in DC on this one and there just isn't a strong enough coordinated effort to change it.

Any that you find, and I know the sources you speak of, is most definately illegal. The only way it's allowed into the country is "roasted and ground" and that completely destroys the flavour. If you find it whole, or see it on the net, chances are it's not real sichan pepper or the USDA is already en route to their doorsteps. With the homeland security money up for grabs, every agency is making efforts to prove their worth, hence, stronger enforcement.

I believe that the first discovery gets the product confiscated, the second, a fine in the thousands of dollars range. Personally, I'm not willing to risk it.

Good luck to you, enjoy some next time you find yourself in Vancouver at Sun Sui Wah. :-)"

[pjs]

I looked up classification info for Szechuan Peppercorns here:

http://florawww.eeb.uconn.edu/acc_num/198501352.html

I used that info to look for a listing here:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/regpestlist/

They are not on the Regulated Pest List.

PJ

Edit: Durians and Water Spinach however, are on the list.

Edited December 6, 2003 by pjs (log)

[chengdude]

Sorry for the blatant commercial post, but if anyone is quite desperate for Sichuan peppercorns, I have three 50g packets of whole peppercorns I bought in Sichuan that I would be happy to offer as a lot...for a lot less than what I've seen online. I'm probably going back to Sichuan (and need every dime I can get!), so won't be needing them (nor do I know anyone around me who will use them). They're not market fresh, but probably as good as any you'll find here in the States.

[Rachel Perlow]

Click here for a discussion of the NYT review of Fuchsia Dunlop's book. And Florance Fabricant's, the reviewer, clear mistake in research for not mentioning the ban on importing Sicuan peppercorns.

[Ian]

No mistake. Sichuan pepper can still be found in NYC chinatown.

All the best,

--

Ian