Benoit Merged topics - Review from 2003, Ducasse

[Schneier]

Benoit, 20 Rue Saint-Martin, Tel: 01 42 72 25 76

Benoit is my favorite bistro in Paris. It's in the 4th, near the Louvre. The first time I walked inside--at random, with my wife, a couple of years ago--I fell in love with the place. The restaurant has a Michelin star and has been around since 1912, but I didn't know that then. I liked the large planters that ringed the restaurant, shielding it from the bustle of the city. I liked the bistro feel: the cramped tables, the working elegance, the food spilling out of the kitchen. I saw a duck lying on a sideboard--a wild duck, dead, with head, feet, feathers, everything-- and thought: "I need to eat here."

I did, and I have on every visit to Paris ever since.

Parisian bistros tend to have a lot of game on their menu. And they like to display their food. Benoit always has samples of whatever the kitchen is making for people to look at. As I was reading the menu, various items were paraded by: terrines, a salad, a soup du poissons (so "jacked with Pernod," as Tony Bordain aptly puts it, that I could smell it across the room), a chicken completely encrusted with pork.

I ordered a duck pate to start. It was a log--the waiter called it a ballotine--like a terrine but without the terrine. Duck meat on the outside and foie gras on the inside. Served cold. Delicious.

And then I had the partridge. It came in sections--I think I got the whole bird--roasted, and served with a small head of a delicious French cabbage I had never seen before, some potato slices, and a light jus. Simply incredible.

It's France, so I ordered the cheese course: Pont L'Eveque, Cammerbert, Forme d'Albert, Livarot, a nasty- looking cow's milk cheese and a random sheep cheese. (I completely blanked on the French for "sheep," which made conversation difficult.) A lot of these are available in the U.S., but the varieties are just better locally.

The table next to me ordered cassoulet. I love cassoulet, and Benoit makes a great version. (The previous time I was there I ended up trading food with the people sitting at the table next to me--I told you the tables were cramped--much to the astonishment of the waiters.) And I had a pang of buyers remorse when I saw the tete de veau: a piece of veal cheek, ear, tongue, and brain served in a pot au fou style. I should have ordered that.

Maybe next time.

Bruce

[vserna]

Wonderful place indeed. Very good Rhône wines too. But with the proviso that this is probably France's most expensive bistrot - behind L'Ami Louis, of course.

[Schneier]

Yeah, it is overpriced. And there are probably better values. But it is the 4th, an area not known for it's food bargains. And it does have a star.

Anyway, I like the place so much. At this point going there is tradition.

If they only had a non-smoking section...

Bruce

[marcus]

Benoit is the only bistro in Paris that still retains a star, there used to be many and Allard once actually had two. About 5 years ago Benoit shifted from the normal Parisian Monday-Friday schedule to opening 7 days a week which is truly unusual for a serious restaurant in Paris. Does anyone know whether they maintain there standards on weekends? Also, there is an upstairs dining room Siberia reserved for unknown American tourists. You will be treated less well here, you won't be offered extra slices of their wonderful mushroom pate, and should be avoided.

[Schneier]

I've never been sentenced to the upstairs room. Speaking some French helps, as does not acting like a typical boorish tourist.

Bruce

[Bux]

Benoit is my favorite bistro in Paris. It's in the 4th, near the Louvre.

I glossed over that the first time. It's not that far from the Louvre, but it's much closer to the Beaubourg, if I recall.

[Louisa Chu]

Bruce, I've got a soft spot for Benoit too - my first Michelin starred restaurant experience. I went as the guest of a friend - who's been going there since she was a kid. Ballotine - I love that preparation - so old school - deboned whole bird, stuffed, wrapped in a torchon, poached, then allowed to sit for at least a day - much more complicated than a terrine - a lot of fun to make. Mouton's sheep - but for cheese it's brebis - ewe. But are you kidding about the 4th - and having a star? The 4th's full of bargains - it does include the Marais - and even Le Violon in the 7th has a dinner menu for 80 euros a person.

vserna, but does anyone recommend L'Ami Louis anymore?

marcus, I've been there for a weekend dinner at it was fine. My friend tells me it's always the same.

Bux, just up from the Hotel de Ville - right across from Monoprix.

[zareba]

A hint at avoiding the smokiness is to enjoy lunch at Benoit.

Upon recommendations from dear friends (you know who you are ) I wandered over to Benoit on Tuesday evening and found it completely full for the night so I politely asked if I could reserve for lunch tomorrow. He said fine, took my name down and said to show up at 12:30. I found myself in traditional French bistro heaven on 08-Oct-2003 for lunch and it was wonderful.

The food was introduced and items were sampled and I felt much like the over stuffed goose getting ready to become holiday dinner myself... From the openers of brandied field mushrooms to the cassoulet, the soups, the cheeses and the desserts... Yum.

The bistro was full by 1pm and only one smoker lit up at about 1:45pm. Most of my meal was smoke free and I was quite happy as the food was so good.

Thank you for your original review.

[dlc]

I must add my name to the list of patrons who think this is the best bistro in Paris. Another plus is the fantastic selections of vintage Armangacs they have. What a wonderful way to stay warm on the walk back to the hotel.

[paulbrussel]

Isn't La régalade considered to be a bistro as well? Many think that is a great place (as I think too).

[Bux]

I suppose one has to make a distinction between Benoit which is an older traditional, can one say "authentic," bistrot and La Regalade which is to an exrtent retro in that it's run by a chef who used to cook mulit-starred haute cuisine food. I'm not sure where that puts Aux Lyonnais which is an old and authetic machon, bouchon or Lyonnaise style bistrot now partially owned by Alain Ducassse and whose desserts may come from the kitchens at the Plaza Athenée. Now there's a three days project that should be a labor of love. We could easily find a couple of other places and make it a week's work. Trou Gascon is probably another nomimee, but maybe it's a restaurant and not a bistrot.

[Schneier]

Lunch at Benoit yesterday, with my wife K, my cousin, and her husband. I wasn't sure if I they remembered me, or were just being nice, but the owner came out to say hello and describe the dishes. One of the things I like about this place is that they often bring out various terrines and soups and cold first courses for you to look at. The prettiest dish was a donut-shaped pate made from thin alternating layers of veal tongue and foie gras, although the cold lobster salad came close.

I ordered the crab soup to start. They make a great Provencale-style fish soup a Benoit, and I'm a sucker for any soup that's jacked with Pernod. K had a cold terrine made with manta ray and vegetables in aspic: delicious. My cousin and her husband we somewhat timid in the face of all the "interesting" choices, and started their meal off with salads.

I had the tete de veau as a main course, primarily because I read my previous write-up on the place where I talked about wishing that I ordered it. It was a piece of veal tongue, a piece of veal cheek, and some pieces of more "interesting" veal parts, served with boiled potatoes in a sauce of mustard, capers, and tiny pieces of hard-boiled egg. I liked it a lot, although I think I like some of their other offerings--they make a great cassoulet--better.

K had the roast pigeon, which ended up being an okay bird in a delicious sauce. My cousin ordered duck confit--we talked her into it--and her husband ordered roast chicken. But to their credit, they both tasted what K and I ordered.

For dessert we had their delicious chocolate mousse and a piece of peach tart.

B

[robert brown]

My French pal who was my Paris mentor long ago cited Benoit recently as a restaurant that has lost it. He says the son doesn't care like the old man did. Allard, however, is a restaurant he told me hasn't changed at all. Has anyone had his experience at Benoit, or has my friend become a curmudgeon? I liked it a lot, but haven't been in seven or eight years.

[Schneier]

Tell me about Allard. I've never heard of it, and my Michelin doesn't have it in its Paris index. A Google search tells me that it's an old and good bistro in the 6th. Is it possible that Michelin isn't perfect?

Bruce

[Bux]

Michelin is as perfect as the world around it and probably has too much power, but I've heard contrasting reports about Allard in recent years and I've heard both sides here.

We returned to Allard some 10 years later. It no longer had the same ethereal glow; the shock of the new was gone, and I have no doubt that the restaurant declined in performance, as restaurants tend to do. Nonetheless we enjoyed it.

Later by another member in the same thread: "n the early 80s, Allard was a 2 star Michelin restaurant, the only true bistro that I know of that ever received this rating. In the Lyonnais mere tradition, the reverse of what one normally sees in France, Fernande was in the kitchen and Andre managed the front of the house. Andre died relatively young and Fernande soldiered on in the kitchen, there was some decline and the restaurant lost a star. The restaurant lost another star and was eventually sold, and although it has always kept its same menu, the quality declined significantly. There have been recent reports that the restaurant has improved and is now quite good, but I haven't been in many years."

More criticism from John Whiting here.

On the other hand, there's this " The food was simple,classic and of excellent quality." from this spring.

Chac'un a son goût.

[fresh_a]

I'm a bit confused by the phrase, "The shock of the new was gone". The last time Allard was "new" was around 1800 (and then again when it was purchased by the original owners of the current Allard in the 1930's). Being "new" has never been one of Allard's main qualities or attraction...

[Bux]

I'm a bit confused by the phrase, "The shock of the new was gone". The last time Allard was "new" was around 1800 (and then again when it was purchased by the original owners of the current Allard in the 1930's). Being "new" has never been one of Allard's main qualities or attraction...

My apologies for quoting Jonathan--"We returned to Allard some 10 years later. It no longer had the same ethereal glow; the shock of the new was gone,"--out of context. I think he was referring to the fact that dining at Allard was a new experience, in fact it seems as if being young, in love and living in Paris was the experience as much as dining in Paris.

[Bux]

My French pal who was my Paris mentor long ago cited Benoit recently as a restaurant that has lost it. He says the son doesn't care like the old man did. Allard, however, is a restaurant he told me hasn't changed at all. Has anyone had his experience at Benoit, or has my friend become a curmudgeon? I liked it a lot, but haven't been in seven or eight years.

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We were disappointed in the food at Benoit and found the prices unreasonably high. Overpriced? Chiberta, where they also speak English and cater to tourists, which seems even more of a specialty here, served a superb pigeon cooked precisely rosé while Benoit's was well past medium in our estimation although ordered on the rare side of rosé. 30 € for Benoit, 34 € for the far superior cuisson and presentation at Chiberta. Pigeon's not their specialty? 10 € fir a 50 cl. of Chateldon at Benoit. Chiberta charged 7 € for a liter. At l'Atelier de Robuchon the price was 4 € for a liter, although that was counter service. To top it all off, the coffee was 6 € for an espresso. The highest price we paid anywhere in Paris including Goumard, a four fork establishment where the comfort and elelgance should easily add a buck or two to the price of anything, but where better coffee was served at a euro less.

Granted, the crab soup, (soupe d'etrilles) was excellent and the aroma alone made it worth ordering. The langue de veau Lucullus was perhaps, far too lucullan for it's own good, at least to my taste. I guess I was expecting a salad of veal tongue with a hearty dressing in what I think of as a bistrot style. What was served were slices of a layer cake consisting of very thin slices of tongue held together with a "frosting" of pâté de fois gras. It was nicely complimented by a salad of lentils, but it was far too rich with the "pâté" overwhelming the tongue not with flavor of foie, but with the texutre of fat.

Uneveness hit the main courses as well. Cassoulet may be the dish to order, and perhaps braised dishes come off better than those supposedly cooked to order, but it was unseasonably warm for early September. My pintatdeau with chanterelles fared better and was fine. Dessert was excellent if you like good old fashioned French pastry and order the house pastry whose name escapes me, but it was puff pastry, strawberries and pastry cream.

I might have fared better with my first course had I paid attention the dog and pony show carried on for the adjoining table of two generations of Americans, with the older being at least my age and probably far more affluent, but with very limited ability to read the menu. Almost every dish in the house was paraded past their table in an effort to allow them to choose wisely. The chef, or someone in chef's clothes, explained each dish in accented English. The rest of the back room was pretty well filled with tourists. We left with the impression that the prices reflected not the quality, which was average, but the ability to entertain those at sea in Paris and because Benoit has become the sort of establishment that can command a few bucks more simply because it is known and an establishment that is mentioned in many guides, both current and old. When we arrived, Mrs. B felt the front room was the tourist room and was glad to have been seated in the back. When we left, I felt the front room was largely French. Whether more care was given to their orders, I couldn't say. I think Benoit is a great place for anyone with very little knowledge of French cuisine and for whom a few euros is not going to break the bank, but I left there feeling it's to be consigned to the guide books and the recommendations of concierge's who are sure they know their clients. It's a picturesque place and the service is with a smile and in English if need be, or French if you don't ask questions in English.

[Bux]

In the Food Stuff column of the NY Times Dining section on 26 January 2005, Florence Fabricant reports that "Alain Ducasse plans to take over Benoit, a Parisian bistro that opened in 1912. A final agreement has not been signed. The owner, Michel Petit, who has run the place since 1959, is a grandson of Benoit Matray, the founder, and may stay as a consultant." Can anyone confirm this report? We were far from pleased with Benoit recently and found it not to be a good value. On the other hand, Aux Lyonnais, in which Ducasse has a half interest, was most pleasing. Benoit, however, seems to attract more tourists and perhaps those with less food knowledge. Then again, maybe it was a bad day.

[fresh_a]

It's been in the wings for quite a while now. The old team from Benoit left months ago in preparation for this, thus the recent drop in quality. How it turns out remains to be seen...

[pierre45]

It's been in the wings for quite a while now. The old team from Benoit left months ago in preparation for this, thus the recent drop in quality. How it turns out remains to be seen...

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IN my book Benoit has been a rip off joint for the innocent tourists.Food is poor and very expensive,however service is solicitious.One can do a lot better in paris.

Duscasse the business man that he is wants to capitalize on the name.Tourists still flock to the place because its mentionned in all the guides as this wonderful parisian tradional bistrot..

[Bux]

IN my book Benoit has been a rip off joint for the innocent tourists.Food is poor and very expensive,however service is solicitious.One can do a lot better in paris.

Duscasse the business man that he is wants to capitalize on the name.Tourists still flock to the place because its mentionned in all the guides as this wonderful parisian tradional bistrot..

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Last fall, after hearing so many conflicting reports, we decided we had to see for ourselves. Our assessement was posted elsewhere on the forum and it pretty much coincided with that of pierre45. The food was not that bad, but one could easily eat much better for the price and perhaps a little better for much less. We had no complaints about the service we received and that offered to those who spoke English and not French was perhaps, overly solcitious. I don't fully share pierre's pessimism, precisely because I loved Aux Lyonnais which he staffed. A problem I see, is that while Aux Lyonnais seemed to get a batch of Brits and Yanks, who for the most part knew the food, or were with someone who could order for them. At Benoit, we saw a few tables of older wealthier diners, who were not only clueless about French cuisine, but couldn't care less about learning more. They just wanted a meal, that wasn't too strange to their tastes. That kind of traffic is not going to drive a kitchen to do excellent work.

[jgould]

apparently alain ducasse taking over the beautiful & acclaimed classic - benoit!! what's next? trump buying the eiffel tower?????

Edited February 5, 2005 by jgould (log)

[jgould]

sounds like MY memories of Benoit food are in the minority. on a # of trips to paris, meals at benoit have always been very good, the service excellent, & the evening very enjoyable. i did not find it to be any more (or less) expensive than others, nor the food inferior. i did not find the service "overly solicitious", nor did it appear that we could be accused of being "clueless" about french bistrot cuisine!! 1 caveat: our visits to benoit were prior to the old team recently leaving as per the reference above.

its interesting how opinions differ. for example, as acclaimed as taillevent is considered, i did not find the quality as high as i had expected, & the service was extremely solicitious. for those who think service is better when speaking french, our hosts were french, as well as our ability to speak french, is near fluent. the general catty criticisms that consistently crop up strike a chord of an american view "tout le monde". it would be interesting to note what french restauranteurs think of the pompous american "supposed foodies" who overrun their restaurants, brasseries, bistros, cafes, etc... bringing their perceptions & misconceptions, & judging every minute detail. i wonder how our restaurants in manhattan would stand up to a similar constant barrage of scutiny & criticism.

many of the comments appear to be just as solicitious as the service at benoit. while it may be true, the anticipated sale of benoit caused a change, it still does not change the fact that for many yrs, benoit served as a superb example of what an upscale parsian bistrot looked & acted like. the fact that benoit was filled with "americans" was a byproduct of visitors returning & expressing how much they enjoyed their experience. the same holds true for l'ami louis. filled with americans, & french. why? because people enjoy going!! in spite of amazingly high prices, somewhat brutal service, & a crappy part of the 3er!!

Edited February 6, 2005 by jgould (log)

[cigalechanta]

It's like a small gem of a hotel, you mention it on line, a few years later, you can't afford it or get a booking. Most Americanss are lemmings when it comes to hotels and dining. Afraid to try a new chef.

By the way, The wine spectator this month mentions new young inovative chefs changing the staid menus of Burgundy.