TDG: Wine Camp: Corky Paranoia Redux

[Craig Camp]

If I am to pick an Italian wine: Morellino Di Scansano 2000 by Elisabetta Geppetti. The plastic cork was in a bad state all through the many wines I opened.

Craig: "an expensive old bottle and it is corked that it can and should be returned."

From a customer point of view, a big yes, but that could mean the end of aged wines in a restaurants or any other than private stocks. The customer is always right could pose a problem in this case.

I just had a bottle of the Morellino Di Scansano 2000 by Elisabetta Geppetti and liked the wine very much. A great value at only 7 Euro. The plastic cork was in good shape, worked perfectly and I was quite happy to see it.

Certainly the customer is not always right (except as Mark S. so deftly noted), but if a super-expensive wine is spoiled because of the cork it should be returned. If you order a huge piece of Kobe beef you would send it back to the kitchen if it was spoiled - no matter how much it cost. If the sommelier agrees that the wine is corked - I can't imagine a restaurant not taking it back. Now if the sommelier determines the wine is fine that is another matter. If you order old wine you as a customer take a risk as to its condition. If it is over the hill it is your problem. If it is corked it is theirs. They are different issues.

[tommy]

i rather like an element of brett. or at least those flavors associated with brett.

[Andre]

If I am to pick an Italian wine: Morellino Di Scansano 2000 by Elisabetta Geppetti. The plastic cork was in a bad state all through the many wines I opened.

Craig: "an expensive old bottle and it is corked that it can and should be returned."

From a customer point of view, a big yes, but that could mean the end of aged wines in a restaurants or any other than private stocks. The customer is always right could pose a problem in this case.

I just had a bottle of the Morellino Di Scansano 2000 by Elisabetta Geppetti and liked the wine very much. A great value at only 7 Euro. The plastic cork was in good shape, worked perfectly and I was quite happy to see it.

Certainly the customer is not always right (except as Mark S. so deftly noted), but if a super-expensive wine is spoiled because of the cork it should be returned. If you order a huge piece of Kobe beef you would send it back to the kitchen if it was spoiled - no matter how much it cost. If the sommelier agrees that the wine is corked - I can't imagine a restaurant not taking it back. Now if the sommelier determines the wine is fine that is another matter. If you order old wine you as a customer take a risk as to its condition. If it is over the hill it is your problem. If it is corked it is theirs. They are different issues.

Very glad to hear you like the wine. In my country the price is closer to 20 Eur. [ 70% taxes + small quantity shipment that must be very expensive, I'd rather stick to this excuse ]but still I find it interesting enough to buy. I simply love this side of Sangiovese.

Happy to hear your corks were in good shape. I've written the winery several months ago, complimenting the wine and complaining about the cork with several pictures attached. No respone yet.

Older wines tend to penetrate the cork deeper, exposing the wines to a higher risk of TCA or any other bacteria found in the cork.

Do you think the customer should be notified in advance and having to rely almost completely on the Sommelier's decision ?

A major factor in a restaurant is the service, and a lot of money is a sensitive issue.

Aiming to be a perfect host, this is a tricky question.

[Craig Camp]

In my country the price is closer to 20 Eur. [ 70% taxes + small quantity shipment that must be very expensive, I'd rather stick to this excuse ]but still I find it interesting enough to buy. I simply love this side of Sangiovese.

Do you think the customer should be notified in advance and having to rely almost completely on the Sommelier's decision ?

70% tax talk about criminal. Do they do this to protect your own wine industry?

I think it is probably proper to give the customer some kind of warning. Let's once again ask Mark S. what he thinks it is proper in this case. I could see that the customer could be easily insulted if it is not handled just so.

[Andre]

"70% tax talk about criminal. Do they do this to protect your own wine industry?"

So they say.

A young 58 year old country, tends to be forgiven especially when so politically "busy".

Wines from the States, for example, should have no taxes at all [ what are freinds for ? ], yet a Mondavi Woodbridge is around 20 $, Colombia Crest Merlot 19 $, Wente whatever 12 $ Beringer California, 19$ etc. Ther are ways to rase prices other than direct taxation.

Imagine what a 2buc chuck would cost. [ amusing thought... ]

In the last 5 years we moved from 20 to 150 wineries and counting. Finally there is something to protect though the market is far from steady to be controlled by any rule.

[Crash]

Great article Craig, and one that deserves widespread attention. As a wine retailer and wholesaler with over ten years experience professionally I, too, dread having to open samples for clients, especially restaurant clients, with only one bottle of each type in my bag. It is often difficult to get appointments with wine buyers, and corked bottles ruin the whole thing. You KNOW that the wine is good, but the damned seal had betrayed you!

Randall Grahm, owner and "President-for-life" of Bonny Doon Vineyards (whom I do NOT represent, but whom I admire and am pleased to have met several times over the years) put it best when he said (and I am paraphrasing here): "We use 21st century technology in the winery, in the vineyards, in the construction of the bottles and labels, and we use every means available to make the best wines that we can, and then we seal it all up with 14th century technology!" Small wonder that Mr. Grahm is in the forefront in this country to use Stel-Vin closures.

Kudos too, to the Australian and New Zealand wineries for leading the world in switching over to screw-tops.

As for the restaurant problem, I don't know of any quality restaurants in my area (Washington, D.C.) who wouldn't hesitate to make the diner happy by replacing the bottle, and then check the wine themselves. If it is indeed faulty, they get a replacement or credit from the wholesaler - on older wines, I admit it could be almost impossible to do that, though. If the wine is good, well, the staff gets itself a treat after the kitchen closes.

I'm a "newbie" here to the site, but I look forward to many more such articles from you Craig.

[badthings]

Welcome, Crash.

The Bonny Doon website has lots of demented Stelvin propaganda (also see this). In a recent newsletter, Grahm noted that the plastic corks he used for the Cigare Volant several years ago are starting to behave unacceptably -- I think they are starting to oxidize? This is my only reservation with the screwcap -- until the Aussies or someone can produce some data, there is no guarantee that it will be any better than a cork over the long term.

People's thresholds for TCA vary greatly:

Five of the 38 panelists in the study had thresholds in the parts-per-billion concentration range, while the majority (75 percent) were at 100 parts per trillion or below. None of the judges with sensory experience had thresholds in the parts per billion range.

[Found at the interesting site corkwatch.com]; according to Wine Spectator some people are even more sensitive:

Infinitesimal amounts of TCA can spoil a wine; many people detect the substance at around five parts per trillion. To put the ratio in perspective, that's comparable to a couple dozen grains of salt in an Olympic-size swimming pool.

This was brought home to me when a sommelier at a restaurant outside Boston claimed to us that something like 1 in 8 bottles he sold was corked, then brought out an example (a few years ago, so forgive me if I only remember it was an italian white). Tasted fine to me.

[Craig Camp]

"70% tax  talk about criminal. Do they do this to protect your own wine industry?"

So they say.

A young 58 year old country, tends to be forgiven especially when so politically "busy".

Wines from the States, for example, should have no taxes at all [ what are freinds for ? ], yet a Mondavi Woodbridge is around 20 $, Colombia Crest Merlot 19 $, Wente whatever 12 $ Beringer California, 19$ etc. Ther are ways to rase prices other than direct taxation.

Imagine what a 2buc chuck would cost. [ amusing thought... ]

In the last 5 years we moved from 20 to 150 wineries and counting. Finally there is something to protect though the market is far from steady to be controlled by any rule.

Tough prices. Perhaps if you have the time you could help us get a closer look at those 150 wineries. I am sure there are a few serious ones we don't ever get to see. I would love to learn more. This could be an interesting and ongoing new thread.

[malcolmjolley]

QUOTE]

Craig,

Commercially available wines that are corked or cooked can be returned to the wholesaler for credit or replacement.

What's the difference (chemical) between corked and cooked? How else can wine go bad?

[Craig Camp]

QUOTE]

Craig,

Commercially available wines that are corked or cooked can be returned to the wholesaler for credit or replacement.

What's the difference (chemical) between corked and cooked? How else can wine go bad?

Corked - wine adversely affected by a cork infected with TCA.

Cooked - wine damaged by heat. First give away is a severely leaking cork. Baked wine tastes baked and oxidized.

[malcolmjolley]

Thanks, Craig.

But the leaking cork is indicative of cooking, not a bad cork to begin with?

[Crash]

Thanks for the grreeting Badthings - your information looks quite correct to me, and the Olympic size swimming pool analogy is spot-on as well. Here's another good analogy - a mere teaspoonful of TCA could contaminate every single bottle of wine for sale in the United States. Isn't THAT frightening? As for Bonny Doon, yes, Randall has always experimented with different closures over the years, and it is a fact that some of the "first generation" synthetic corks were not destined for long-term storage as it turned out, but give Randall his props, he is an iconoclast and innovator, and the neck-hangars on his Ca' Del Solo "Big House" White and Red wines are an instant education on the subject of Stel-Vin closures. Perhaps consumers rallying cry to reticent wineries should be, "Give us Stel-Vin or give us death!"

I must say, that I practically lie awake at night fretting that a truly wonderful wine that I've sold to a less knowledgeable customer is going to be cork-tainted, and they, having no frame of reference for this, will simply assume either a) I've rooked them, b) I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, or c) that it is their own fault, that this type of wine doesn't appeal to them, therefore they won't try it again. Any way you look at it, a sad conclusion.

For those wine consumers who are unsure about cork taint, here is something to remember: if it IS present in the bottle, it does NOT "blow-off" or go away with air. If you are ever uncertain, just wait - it only gets worse. Upon opening a bottle, it may be as strong as a punch in the nose, or it may be very faint. I am lucky to have tasted with a seriously wine-knowledgeable friend who is both extremely cork-taint sensitive as well as formally educated in biochemistry. (I joke that he can detect a cork-tainted bottle from two counties away) He often tastes in some of the best grower's cellars in Europe, and has detected cork-taint before the grower himself! He has shoved two glasses of the same wine from two different bottles under my nose and told me that one was corked and the other wasn't, and I couldn't tell which one it was until 20 minutes later - by then it was self-evident. I describe the odor as being akin to wet newspapers, or wet cardboard boxes.

One other bit of wisdom to practice - if at all possible, after opening a bottle of wine, do NOT shove the cork back in the bottle upside-down. Always put it back in the way it was. For some reason, and I've witnessed this myself more than once, an otherwise good bottle can become cork-tained that way, EVEN IF THE WINE HAS NO PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH THE CORK! I know, I know, this sounds like so-much "hocus-pocus" but it is true, I've experienced it in the presence of other wine professionals. If anyone cares to enlighten me on how this is possible, please do. I'm no chemistry expert.

Readers, please note: Cork-taint isn't the only bugaboo that fouls up otherwise good wines. Wines are living things, and they can develope other problems as well, from bretanomyces (sp?) to volatile acidity problems, over exposure to light, heat, vibration, etc... The motto we have in the wine business is, "There ARE no great wines, only great bottles", since bottle variation, personal mood, the food we're eating and any number of other environmental factors can change our perceptions of any given wine at any particular moment. Stel-Vin closures seem to me to be the best currently available method to level the playing field and eliminate at least one odious possibility from the wine experience.

[Craig Camp]

Thanks, Craig.

But the leaking cork is indicative of cooking, not a bad cork to begin with?

A leaking cork is usually caused by exposure to temperature extremes not some fault in the cork.

[Andre]

"70% tax  talk about criminal. Do they do this to protect your own wine industry?"

So they say.

A young 58 year old country, tends to be forgiven especially when so politically "busy".

Wines from the States, for example, should have no taxes at all [ what are freinds for ? ], yet a Mondavi Woodbridge is around 20 $, Colombia Crest Merlot 19 $, Wente whatever 12 $ Beringer California, 19$ etc. Ther are ways to rase prices other than direct taxation.

Imagine what a 2buc chuck would cost. [ amusing thought... ]

In the last 5 years we moved from 20 to 150 wineries and counting. Finally there is something to protect though the market is far from steady to be controlled by any rule.

Tough prices. Perhaps if you have the time you could help us get a closer look at those 150 wineries. I am sure there are a few serious ones we don't ever get to see. I would love to learn more. This could be an interesting and ongoing new thread.

As Lord Farquad would have said: " I have the honor, no, no, the privelage..."

Give me general guidlines of what might interest you, or where to start, or you leave it to whatever flows....

regards

Andre

[Craig Camp]

[

Give me general guidlines of what might interest you, or where to start, or you leave it to whatever flows....

regards 

Andre

A good overview to start. I am sure most of us know little - In my case nothing. I am very interested to know who the serious folks are.

[Andre]

I will prepere a new topic of my view of the Israeli wine market. I will do my best to be objective and to keep preferences and emotions out of it. Feel free to pull in the direction of your interest after reading.

I am currently finishing a rather large reoprt for a local wine magazine with an ignorant as an editor. Frustrating. So I apologize it will take some time.

regards

Andre

[Marina Chang]

Randall Grahm, owner and "President-for-life" of Bonny Doon Vineyards...put it best when he said (and I am paraphrasing here): "We use 21st century technology in the winery, in the vineyards, in the construction of the bottles and labels, and we use every means available to make the best wines that we can, and then we seal it all up with 14th century technology!"  Small wonder that Mr. Grahm is in the forefront in this country to use Stel-Vin closures.

Kudos too, to the Australian and New Zealand wineries for leading the world in switching over to screw-tops.

I recently read that an Australian firm announced that they would begin selling wine in specially lined, flip-top cans. I imagine this is intended primarily for wines crafted for immediate consumption, and to increase the opportunities for wine vs. beer, soda, etc. Excluding the formal rituals associated with uncorking a fine wine, is there any argument against storing a good wine this way?

Even if this were an ideal storage method - as with boxed wines, and not too long ago with screw tops - preconceptions about cheap beverages coming in cans are probably enough to prevent this idea from becoming more popular.

[328tina]

I just had two "corky wine experiences" during a visit to the Okanagan Valley in B.C. (some great Pinot Gris/Blanc being produced in that area, by the way!) In two different tasting rooms, I was given a wine to taste that was obviously corked. When I pointed it out to the folks behind the bar, they checked for themselves and found I was right. Then it dawned on them--to their horror--that they had been pouring these wines for dozens of people (the bottles were almost empty) and NOBODY NOTICED! That is the wine producer's worst nightmare, and one of the main reasons they switch over to other closures, like screwcaps.

[docsconz]

I just had two "corky wine experiences" during a visit to the Okanagan Valley in B.C. (some great Pinot Gris/Blanc being produced in that area, by the way!) In two different tasting rooms, I was given a wine to taste that was obviously corked. When I pointed it out to the folks behind the bar, they checked for themselves and found I was right. Then it dawned on them--to their horror--that they had been pouring these wines for dozens of people (the bottles were almost empty) and NOBODY NOTICED! That is the wine producer's worst nightmare, and one of the main reasons they switch over to other closures, like screwcaps.

And they were wondering why nobody was buying wine that day

[LSLwine]

Craig Camp's prose just keeps getting better and better. A great article that I sympathized with from the beginning. Hope it is OK to reprint this article for all the wine sales people that I work with. This is something that bears repetition.

Thanks Craig!

[badthings]

OT: Randall and Bonny Doon get plenty of props from me, just not money. I think he's great, he frequently makes me laugh out loud, but the qpr is typically californian -- that is to say, outlandish. For example, I recently saw someone selling a Carneros Albariño for $25. That is absurd when there is so much superb Rias Biaxas available under $20. What is the point? I would put the Cigare Volant in the same category: thanks, but I'll have a real Chateauneuf instead. Or maybe 3 good CdRs.

Just my opinion as someone who doesn't work in the industry (and therefore has to pay for what he drinks on an unpleasantly modest salary).

(Notable qpr exception: vin gris de cigare.)

[badthings]

Chicago Trib. article on screwtops.

She recalled a recent meal in a restaurant in Minneapolis. While opening a bottle of screw-top wine she ordered, the server turned to the side and proceeded to feign the motion of using a corkscrew.

[Phil Ward]

As to the aroma I most associate with corked wines: think wet cardboard.

I had another corked bottle last night. I average 1 in 10 or so that I open at home.

[Craig Camp]

Beringer Blass Wine Estates will release a new line of wines topped off exclusively by screw caps in September. The brand, called TwoTone Farm, is the first screw cap only line to be introduced by a major Napa Valley wine company.

[Andre]

This company is a living breathing example of perfect marketing.

Simply admirable.