2003/04 NJ Zagat

[tommy]

So, in response to ‘how to get in the guide?’ it seems like all you need to do is to vote for your restaurant of choice. 

but people *did* vote for An American Grill, and it still hasn't been in.

[Rail Paul]

I have to believe that Zagat has some checking routine to prevent dishonorable chefs from ballot box stuffing, but Lou's report of many customers sending in ignored Zagat nominations suggests there's editorial discretion in who actually gets listed.

I wonder if Andrea Clurfield would be willing to come online to eGullet and answer questions on the NJ Zagat methodology? If there aren't any objections, I'll give her a call, point her toward this thread, and hear what she says

[Rosie]

I have no objections. Everyone is welcome here and the more the merrier.

[menton1]

I have to believe that Zagat has some checking routine to prevent dishonorable chefs from ballot box stuffing, but Lou's report of many customers sending in ignored Zagat nominations suggests there's  editorial discretion in who actually gets listed.

I wonder if Andrea Clurfield would be willing to come online to eGullet and answer questions on the NJ Zagat methodology?  If there aren't any objections, I'll give her a call, point her toward this thread, and hear what she says

Great idea!! I would be particularly interested as to her explanation of =Mark's story of the sudden disappearance of Casa Comida; That is a tough one to justify.

[Lreda]

Paul,

You know I'd be up for that. The response I got from zagat@zagat.com was that I had to send a press kit. I guess their online poll doesn't hold water. They still send me their book for 2003/04. It was BBQ ing this weekend and was tempted to use it on the grill.

Unbelievable.

[viejo majadero]

So, in response to ‘how to get in the guide?’ it seems like all you need to do is to vote for your restaurant of choice. --Betsy Alger

Betsy -- Above not correct. When you go on line all the votable restaurants are listed there already. In addition you can do a write in. I did a write in and it was not in the book. There must be more criterion.

I still say there is a bad fishy smell eminating from Zagats.

Viejo

[albie]

Interesting, although my impression is that because Zagat is basically a readers' poll or plebiscite,its ratings are much less reliable beyond the big cities, especially New York.

I know this is very much a minority opinion, but I just don't get Scalini Fedeli. Admittedly the ingredients, produce, etc. are first-rate, but the food in general lacks the intensity and purity of flavor that separates the great from the so-so. Pointless slathering of cream and butter marred several dishes. Sorry, but I find the place un-Italian, overpriced and underwhelming; and for my money Restaurant Serenade, just about across the street, offers a much finer dining experience.

[Rosie]

Albie--It's unfair to compare Serenade and Scalini as they serve two very different cuisines. Which Italian restaurant do you like better than Scalini?

[menton1]

I'm attaching the link to a Zagat thread we had in the Food Media section here a couple of weeks ago. Lots of dirt about Zagat.

One tidbit I found interesting is that, when a restaurant gets a pretty bad rating, they give them a red square generic window decal "Zagat Rated 2003", as if this is something prestigious, even though their actual ratings in the guide were awful!

I look forward to having the NJ Editor here if she shows; it will take a lot of guts for her to do that!

Food Media Zagat Thread

[=Mark]

One tidbit I found interesting is that, when a restaurant gets a pretty bad rating, they give them a red square generic window decal "Zagat Rated 2003", as if this is something prestigious, even though their actual ratings in the guide were awful! 

This is interesting as I've noted several places that got good ratings and are sporting the red Zagat Rated decal. Far East Taste in Eatontown is one such restaurant that Clurfield really likes (To be fair the food is really good, an amalgam of Thai, Malaysian and Chinese. Best hot & sour soup and fried dumplings in the county far as I can tell), and is proudly sporting their Zagat Rated sticker on the door.

[albie]

Rosie, re Scalini: Whether it's fair to compare them is entirely a matter of perspective; if ethnic orientation sets your parameters, you have a point; however I wouldn't want to attempt to convince Cetrullo and the Lairds that they are not in fact direct competitors for the same diner dollar in the area's ``special occasion/fine dining" category.

With the closure of Assaggia in Wood Ridge, I would be hard-pressed to pick another New Jersey Italian that enthuses me; maybe Samvera in Monmouth County would get my nod currently. To my mind, authencity is paramount, and Scalini scores low here; IMO it more closely resembles what we used to call a ``continental" restaurant that happens to have a few pastas and risotti on the menu.

To put this in context I must say that I'm a wine/food professional who lives and works in New Jersey (at least for 3-4 days of the week), but does 90 percent of his restaurant dining in NYC, so much of it job-related; that's why for the money it would cost me to dine at Scalini, I would much sooner cross the Hudson and eat in at least ten Italian restaurants that I vastly prefer.

[menton1]

This is interesting as I've noted several places that got good ratings and are sporting the red Zagat Rated decal.

[=Mark]

All I've seen so far are the generic decals, even at the well rated places.

[menton1]

All I've seen so far are the generic decals, even at the well rated places.

Latour in Ridgewood, full blurb in the window.

Arrugula Cafe in South Orange, full blurb.

P.S. Where is Andrea?

[Lreda]

P.S. Where is Andrea?

It ain't gonna happen. Rail said he was going to try to contact her last week and judging from his not posting on the subject it's not likely.

[Rail Paul]

P.S. Where is Andrea?

It ain't gonna happen. Rail said he was going to try to contact her last week and judging from his not posting on the subject it's not likely.

Late last week I left her a voicemail inviting her to visit the site, review the topic and post her comments if she wished. I also gave her my name, phone number, and other info if she wanted to call me back.

In fairness, since it involves Zagat, she may have to clear it with the NY suits and they may not move especially quickly.

I'm a little surprised she hasn't responded since several people she cites as contributors (Pat Mack, etc) know of eGullet. eGullet beat up the Bergen Record reviews, so it's not unexpected that Zagat's passing over good restaurants like An American Grill would go un-noticed.

My guess is the Zagat NJ editorship isn't a seven figure, limo included arrangement. so it's not like she has hundreds of Zagat gophers to research each and every restaurant.

[=Mark]

My guess is the Zagat NJ editorship isn't a seven figure, limo included arrangement. so it's not like she has hundreds of Zagat gophers to research each and every restaurant.

Yes, but the exclusion or removal of establishments that have become, for better or worse, local institutions is somewhat unsettling.

[Rail Paul]

My guess is the Zagat NJ editorship isn't a seven figure, limo included arrangement. so it's not like she has hundreds of Zagat gophers to research each and every restaurant.

Yes, but the exclusion or removal of establishments that have become, for better or worse, local institutions is somewhat unsettling.

agreed, completely.

that's why knowing who votes, how the include / exclude decision is made, the editor's role, etc is at the crux of the argument. If she had researchers and could point to hard evidence, vs a buncha folks deciding what goes in, who stuffed the box, where the people voted wrong, which ballots had chads (whoops, wrong board)

[menton1]

[My guess is the Zagat NJ editorship isn't a seven figure, limo included arrangement. so it's not like she has hundreds of Zagat gophers to research each and every restaurant.

I didn't think the Zagat guide involved research; they claim that all they do is compile the information sent in by the survey respondents.

Based on the Egullet Zagat New York thread, it seems that they do a lot more than that; inclusion and exclusion is one factor, and a lot of politics with comp dinners and decals as well. Quite a revelation.

Hope Andrea shows her personal integrity by coming onto Egullet and answering tough questions!!

[Lreda]

Hope Andrea shows her personal integrity by coming onto Egullet and answering tough questions!!

I'd certainly like to see Andrea on egullet.

I have simple qustions.

Still don't think it'll happen

Edited June 17, 2003 by Lreda (log)

[dbrociner]

I heard that Jason Blair was going to be doing the restaurant reviews for the Times instead of William Grimes. The editors figured it would be cheaper since he didn't have to go to the restaurant to write the review.

[Lreda]

More to come.

I have the book..

No offense to credible journalists

Edited June 18, 2003 by Lreda (log)

[menton1]

Oh, Andrea, where are you? (Come out, come out, wherever you are!!)

[nervousnelli]

What kind of qualifications does a restaurant have t have to be considered by Zagat? Mahzu is a Japanese restaurant in my neighborhood that I think is really excellent but I've never seen it reviewed or mentioned by anyone important. What's the deal with Zagat? Do you have to call Mr. and Mrs. Zagat and tell them to send a reviewer?

[tommy]

Oh, Andrea, where are you?  (Come out, come out, wherever you are!!)

i bet andrea never thought she'd have a website full of insane people challenging her to explain herself.