2003/04 NJ Zagat

[Rosie]

Top Food

28 points

Ryland Inn

27 points

Nicholas

DeLorenzo's Cafe Panache

Whispers

Scalini Fedeli

Union Park

Origin

Saddle River Inn

Daniel's on Broadway

Serenade

Washington Inn

TOP TEN MOST POPULAR(in order)

Scalini Fedeli

Ryland Inn

Saddle River Inn

Amanda's

River Palm Terrace

Frog and the Peach

Highlawn Pavilion

Cafe Panache

Bernard's Inn

Baumgart's Cafe

Agree? Disagree? What did you think of this currant publication?

[Lreda]

Ugh.

Sorry Rosie, I brought this up last week and Rachel was kind enough to move it to Food & Media I believe.

Edited June 7, 2003 by Lreda (log)

[tommy]

does the book have the same copy as it has for the past few years? that thing changes very little.

[Lreda]

Example

Sh***ers

Rt 17

East Rutherford

F D S C

4 27 -2 $140

" An enjoyable late evening spot for those who have consumed much to begin with" Also the finest Absolut vanilla vodka in Jersey. A must is the easily cooperative DJ's who play requests .

[tommy]

" An enjoyable late evening spot for those who have consumed much to begin with"  Also the finest Absolut vanilla vodka in Jersey. A must is the easily cooperative DJ's who play requests .

Naysayers opine, "eff shakers."

[Rosie]

Ugh.

Sorry Rosie, I brought this up last week and Rachel was kind enough to move it to Food & Media I believe.

Ah!!! But this is NJ Zagat so it'sok to keep it on the NJ board.

[tommy]

how does the "top ten" work again? i find it hard to believe that amanda's gets as much traffic as baumgart's. i also find it hard to believe that baumgart's gets any traffic at all. but, sheep will be sheep.

[Rachel Perlow]

Sorry Rosie, I brought this up last week and Rachel was kind enough to move it to Food & Media I believe.

I did?

Edit: Yes, I did. But I thought of that thread more of a discussion about the politics of getting into the Zagat guide, be it NJ or any edition. I thought people around the country/globe would want to chime in on that. This is a more NJ-centric discussion.

Edited June 7, 2003 by Rachel Perlow (log)

[menton1]

We have been disparaging Zagat's for a week in the Food & Media section; I was sadly surprised to hears about a well-established restaurant down on the shore being removed from the listings because they did something to annoy the Zagat NJ editor. It was also interesting to learn that a bad rating is actually better than not being listed; Some folks just use it as a restaurant address book!

[Rosie]

We have been disparaging Zagat's for a week in the Food & Media section;  I was sadly surprised to hears about a well-established restaurant down on the shore being removed from the listings because they did something to annoy the Zagat NJ editor.  It was also interesting to learn that a bad rating is actually better than not being listed;  Some folks just use it as a restaurant address book!

Since I just returned from Australia and New Zealand and am still standing on my head I have been unable to read a month's worth of postings on eGullet and have not followed the postings on the media board!

With that being said (written)--you may not agree with Zagat but I find it hard to believe that a restaurant would be omitted because they annoyed a Zagat editor.

Actually--there are 2 editors and a handful of helpers listed. Local editor is Andrea Clurfeld and Editor is Daniel Simmons. The following were thanked. Randy Bergmann, Paul D'Ambrosio, Lizzie Fuerst, Maria Gallagher, Craig Laban, Pat Mack, Andrew Meyer, Eileen and Shannon Mullen, Cindy Nevitt, Sue Perkins, Kim Rizk, Pat Tanner and Jim Van Ore.

[menton1]

Actually, that Zagat thread in Food & Media was quite a revelation. One of the reasons we love Egullet! Rosie, I'm using a quote from =Mark because the thread has 52 replies and will take some time to read all of it.

QUOTE:You must have pissed off Andrea Clurfield. She is editor at NJ Zagat and reviewer for Asbury Park Press.

She has had a contentious affair with Casa Comida, the largest and oldest (est. 1981) Mexican Restaurant in Monmouth County for over a dozen years. Casa Comida was listed in all previous editions of the NJ Zagat. When Clurfield took over as editor, Poof! The review of Casa Comida dissapears. Coincidence? (END QUOTE) (From =Mark)

After reading that thread, I would believe most bad things said about Zagat!!

Here is the link to the entire thread: Zagat Food & Media Thread

Edited June 7, 2003 by menton1 (log)

[Rail Paul]

I thought that original thread was pretty Jersey-specific, too. Referred specifically to An American Grill and Lou's difficulty in having his customers' opinions recorded.

There's a question of how many responses for a specific restaurant are needed to provide "credibility" for a rating. Zagat doen't tell you whether it's 5 or 500, or if the number varies. And, does the editor get to zap or add a "deserving" place?

For purposes of statistical sampling, knowing that the 27 for food is based on 15 or 1500 comments would be helpful.

(Consumers Reports does the same thing. They won't tell you how many ratings reports they received for their annual car survey for a specific model, but will acknowledge that the total number of cars sold for a brand enters into the formula.)

[Rosie]

When I posted about NJ Zagats I was interested in seeing if eGulleters agreed with the top restaurants listed for food and popularity.

Perhaps we should make a list of restaurants that were not in the NJ Zagats and should have been. I'll start:

An American Grill

BTW--Outback is in the 2003/04 edition.

[menton1]

how does the "top ten" work again?  i find it hard to believe that amanda's gets as much traffic as baumgart's.  i also find it hard to believe that baumgart's gets any traffic at all.  but, sheep will be sheep.

I believe that all the "Most Popular" really means is that it was rated, good or bad, on the most ballots. Of course, with their online ballots now, the ballot box can be "stuffed" very easily. And obviously this has no real relationship to how many people patronize the restaurant. Most Popular is quite misleading here.

The credibility of Zagat can be summed up in a nutshell: The chain restaurant, Outback, is listed, but Casa Comida and American Grill are absent. Maybe they should list McDonald's as well.

[Lreda]

Really, all I want is the bloody listing. Everything else is moot.

By the way, I finally hit 300!!!

Edited June 8, 2003 by Lreda (log)

[Rosie]

Chez Catherine in Westfield is not listed.

[Susan]

If I am not mistaken, I noticed that Il Capo in North Haledon and Shelby's in Hamburg are not listed in the new edition of Zagat but were in the last one. I thought maybe they had closed, but I called and they are both open. I wonder why that happened?

[Susan]

Papillon in Nutley is not listed.

[Rosie]

I haven't done a count but it seemed 2003/04 Zagat was heavy with restaurants from South Jersey.

[menton1]

Maybe we could do a very un-Zagat restaurant guide, with less politics involved in getting listed; THE EGULLET RESTAURANT GUIDE TO NEW JERSEY.

Anyone have a good publishing connection?

[WHT]

I haven't done a count but it seemed  2003/04 Zagat was heavy with restaurants from South Jersey.

It’s been a while since I have had a copy of the NJ edition alone. I regularly am given a copy of the US version because of my connections in the industry.

It has been my observation that places say south of exit 105 have been ignored for the most part. A few AC strongholds but that seems to be it. For that matter there seems to have been a dead zone of sorts. Is it lack of places or ignorance of the area?

[tommy]

Is it lack of places or ignorance of the area?

i'm assuming the book is based on participants' reviews. perhaps people in other parts of the state have been more proactive in participating in zagats.

[Taboni]

The credibility of Zagat can be summed up in a nutshell:  The chain restaurant, Outback, is listed, but Casa Comida and American Grill are absent.  Maybe they should list McDonald's as well.

To list Casa Comida and American Grill together is an insult to Chef Lou. Casa Comida is vile......think East LA gone south. Try Juanito's or La Chalupa(Except BYOB Mexican has serious drawbacks) or even Chilango in AH.

I don't follow Zagat anymore except to get addresses and phone numbers. Too many reviews seem copied verbatim year after year and I just don't find them consistent with my experiences on the whole. I can however empathize with Chef Lou as the listing alone would be worthwhile. Anyone know how new restaurants get added?

[menton1]

To list Casa Comida and American Grill together is an insult to Chef Lou. Casa Comida is vile......think East LA gone south.  Try Juanito's or La Chalupa(Except  BYOB Mexican has serious drawbacks) or even Chilango in AH.

I don't follow Zagat anymore except to get addresses and phone numbers.  Too many reviews seem copied verbatim year after year and I just don't find them consistent with my experiences on the whole. I can however empathize with Chef Lou as the listing alone would be worthwhile.  Anyone know how new restaurants get added?

These 2 places are being lumped together because they are both missing from the listings. Nothing to do with the actual rating.

As you have demonstrated by your comments, to be listed AT ALL is far more important than having a good rating. Most people use Zagat as you do, as an address book. The outrage is that supposedly this new editor eliminated a restaurant from the listings on a purely whimsical basis, or, as someone previously said, they got on the editor's bad side.

[Betsy Alger]

I just heard (not sure how official this is) that Zagat’s has changed how they solicit response from the dining-out public.

Years ago in order to be an official Zagat’s evaluator one needed to complete some rather extensive paper work. Among the qualifications were that the evaluator had to dine out frequently (not sure what was considered frequent.)

That has changed. Now all one needs to do is go to the Zagat’s web site and file a report on a specific restaurant. As an incentive to participate, those who do are promised a copy of the guide.

A friend’s neighbor who is far from a sophisticated diner (won’t eat mushrooms, doesn’t like fish, favorite wine is white Zin…..) voted for one restaurant just to get a copy of the guide!

So, in response to ‘how to get in the guide?’ it seems like all you need to do is to vote for your restaurant of choice.