quesadillas

[sandra]

For cheese only, corn tortillas

Ham & cheese on flour = sincronizadas...yum-my

Masa on the beach, or any time they are made for me....

[ExtraMSG]

Technically, the only difference between making a masa quesadilla and a corn quesadilla would be that the former would be fresher. In my experience, when you say masa to a Mexican, they will assume you mean either fresh or flour masa (masa harina). And usually, since it's more common, they will assume you mean masa harina. This will always be assumed to be made from corn. There are two grinds that you will commonly find. There is "...para tortillas" and "...para tamales". The grind for tortillas is finer than the grind for tamales. Making a tamale grind actually isn't that hard to do at home. You can go buy dry kernel corn for the purpose at a health food store or mercado latino, soak it in lime water (the chemical, not the fruit), and then grind it or even use a food processor. It works decently. Many Mexican markets actually have fresh masa for tamales frozen. It's definitely better than the stuff you make yourself from masa harina. If you use masa harina, then you add water to make a dough and then make the tortillas from that dough.

Diana Kennedy has a book on tortillas that is now part of her Essential Cuisines compilation that you can find in any Barnes and Noble or online. Bayless' Authentic Mexican also does an excellent job of covering tortillas making. Both cover both flour and corn based tortillas. If you haven't made your own flour (meaning wheat flour) tortillas, you're missing out. It is some effort, but they're really good. Unlike corn tortillas, you don't need a tortillas press to get a good product. I highly suggest using lard, though, not shortening, unless you're a vegetarian.

I've found that making quesadillas from scratch using either fresh or flour masa takes some practice but is well worth it. There is a quality to them that is just fantastic. If you've had them in Mexico, you know what I'm talking about. It's much easier to do this using a cast iron comal or skillet. A comal can be picked up in most any Wal-Mart and places like Bed, Bath, and Beyond or Linens and Things often even have pre-seasoned Lodge cast iron cookware. That's highly advisable. Seasoning is the most annoying part of cast iron.

I don't know where you live, but in most cities that have a Mexican population at all you'll find little taquerias or taco trucks that have real quesadillas, that is, not Tex-Mex, Sonoran, or California style quesadillas with wheat flour tortillas. I'd suggest putting out the request on your regional egullet forum.

[ExtraMSG]

I was just looking at Diana Kennedy's new book on techniques and ingredients and it had an *excellent* section on anotjitos, including gorditas, tlacoyas, and quesadillas. Best I've seen on the subject.

[ExtraMSG]

Quesadillas con flores de calabaza

Also check this link on squash blossoms: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=33739

[esperanza]

What a great photo, EMSG. And an interesting thread as well.

Let's backtrack just for a minute and talk about quesadillas made from masa vs quesadillas made from corn tortillas.

The photo in the last post is a perfect illustration of quesadillas made from masa. In Spanish, masa simply means dough. Masa harina, then, literally means dough flour--in this case, made of maíz (corn, as Jaymes said up there in this thread). In another recent thread I mentioned that here in Mexico, tortilla dough, cake batter, cookie dough, and pancake batter are all called masa. So when we talk about quesadillas made from masa, we're talking about quesadillas made from raw tortilla dough, formed to make tortillas but not previously cooked. These quesadillas can be either deep-fried or cooked on the comal.

Quesadillas made from corn tortillas, on the other hand, are made from ordinary corn tortillas that come from the tortillería or the supermarket. These quesadillas can be cooked on the comal or deep-fried.

The cooking vessel shown in the photo way up there in this thread is not a comal, but a brasero (brazier, in English). It's typically used to fry things like taquitos, enchiladas, and other antojitos in either oil or lard. A comal is a griddle and can be made of clay, cast iron, or tin. Food is usually cooked on the comal without additional grease.

My personal preference is quesadillas made from flour tortillas, probably because of the lard or vegetable shortening that gives the tortilla that extra flavor. There's a restaurant fairly near me, Burritos de Moyahua, that makes the best quesadillas I've ever eaten. Rolled, slightly crisped flour tortillas, cheese oozing out the ends with bits of crunchy browned cheese clinging to the edges of the tortillas--oh boy, it's been quite a while since I ate there. Maybe tomorrow...

[ExtraMSG]

Thanks for going through the thread and clarifying some stuff, esperanza. Where are you located, btw? How common are wheat flour tortillas and quesadillas there? My experience in Mexico was that only in the north and touristy areas did you find wheat flour quesadillas.

Also, how traditional is the quesadilla made from tortillas rather than from masa (especially of maiz)? I would think that it may be more of a modern convenience now that so many, especially in cities, get their tortillas from the store or tortilleria rather than making their own.

I've grown to really dislike most flour tortilla quesadillas. I prefer the most distinct textural contrast of the corn-based quesadillas, especially the empenada style. Also, there's less of a tendency to overdue the cheese in the empenada style quesadillas.

[sequim]

I have been doing them in a fry pan! I am going to try the microwave next time, no pan to clean-up!

Flour tortilla (one) in a fry pan - no mess to clean up as I don't use oil, I just brown the tort on both sides, then add my toppings until the cheese melts and the bottom is crisp. You have to be careful to not slop anything on the pan and then you don't have cleanup!

I don't like microwaves, no browning....

[shelora]

I prefer quesadillas with my favourite combo of squash blossoms, epazote and cheese. Then there are wonderful combos of sauteed mushrooms with chile and cheese.

I am a corn tortilla woman all the way. I dream about the women in Oaxaca who make them for you to order, with a little asiento smeared on them.

And that great photo of the comal from Guajalote is made of metal as the cook pictured is deepfrying. I have one of those at home, which I have never used for deepfrying but I like looking at it, I bought in from a wandering vendor in Juarez market in oaxaca.

Last year we tooka trip up into the Mixteca Alta to a place called, Santiago Apoala. They make tortillas from a mixture of both corn and wheat, as both grow very well up there.

They were incredible, stone ground and aromatic.

At home I use a flat cast iron griddle for my quesadillas. No oil. I get good colour on my tortilla and I like using two small tortillas, like a sandwich.

S

[caroline]

Hey I just realised that Extra MSG, Esperanza and I am all on at the same time. I tried fast reply and nothing happened. But it would be a joy to chat

Rachel

[esperanza]

Greetings from the central highlands of Mexico. I live near Guadalajara (La Perla del Occidente, the Pearl of the West), Mexico's second largest city.

Quesadillas are very common here, made using either corn or wheat flour tortillas. Quesadillas made of raw masa tortillas are much less frequently seen. The restaurant that I mentioned in my earlier post, Fonda Los Burritos de Moyahua, makes quesadillas using freshly made-on-the-premises flour tortillas wrapped around queso asadero, a melting cheese.

Technically, the only difference between making a masa quesadilla and a corn quesadilla would be that the former would be fresher.

Unfortunately, that quote is not accurate. The quesadilla made of raw masa formed into a tortilla that has not been cooked prior to being filled is very different from the quesadilla made of a previously cooked tortilla. It's not about freshness. The quesadilla made of pre-cooked tortillas is just as traditional as the quesadilla made of a raw masa tortilla. They're two different things entirely. The raw masa quesadilla is almost always fried, as shown in EMSG's excellent photo; the cooked tortilla quesadilla is usually toasted on a comal without oil.

Corn tortillas are almost always served with meals in the interior of Mexico , as EMSG said. I do know one restaurant in this area which specializes in Sonora-style food. At that restaurant, flour tortillas are always available, but the client is always asked if he or she would prefer tortillas of flour or corn.

NB: That picture in guajolote's post isn't a comal. It's the top part of a brasero. It looks like an inverted sombrero--a sombrero that would perch like a wide-brimmed yarmulke on top of your head. How's that for a mixed metaphor? It's specifically used for deep frying or stir-frying. If you've ever been to the Plaza Gertrudis Bocanegra in Pátzcuaro and eaten enchiladas placeras, you've seen the quintessential use of the brasero.

[LarsTheo]

I'm a little confused by some of the terms here. I always understood that the raw masa version that is deep-fried is called an empanada - at least that's what they were called in Mexico City when I got them on the street, unless my mind is failing me, which is a distinct possibility. I don't remember flour tortillas being common in Mexico at all, but that could be an oversight. There is a good Mexican restaurant a few blocks from me called Casa Blanca (with many photos of Humphrey Bogart - I am in Los Angeles, after all) that has a woman sitting in the middle of the dining room constantly making fresh flour tortillas by hand, and I will definitely eat them there, but otherwise I prefer corn tortillas. However, I do use flour tortillas to make less Mexican style quesadillas, such as with ham and cheese, or asparagus, mushrooms, etc, and I often actually end up making a burrito instead of a quesadilla. I think quesadilla means different things in different areas, just as empanada means something different in different regions. Is anyone else familiar with masa empanadas?

I buy fresh masa (not frozen) at a Cuban market, and it can be used for tamales, tortillas, or empanadas, and I generally use it for empanadas. It doesn't keep well, however, and so I've tried freezing it, but I need to remember to freeze it in small batches. I tend not to make corn tortillas because I get adequate ones here at the local markets, although it's not the same as buying them on the street in Mexico.

[ludja]

I believe that (at least traditionally) wheat tortillas came from northern parts of Mexico that grew wheat--in contrast to corn grown in larger areas of the country.

Also, per esperanza's post above, it seems that quesadillas made with pre-cooked tortillas are much more common.

Interesting though, to know if there is a difference between an empanada and a quesadilla made with uncooked dough... It looks like they would both be shallow fried. Maybe it is the thickness of the dough or the size of the finished product?

[ludja]

Ok-- I decided to look through a few a my mexican cookbooks and came up with this info from Bayless' Mexico, One Plate at a Time.

He mentions that there are lots of varieties of quesadillas, many with pre-made corn or flour tortillas, but that in Oaxaca, they are generally called "empanadas" and are made with fresh masa harina dough.

For the fresh masa harina quesadillas:

He says they can either be griddle cooked, in which case, the dough needs to be pressed thin enough and spend enough time on the griddle in order for it to cook all the way through or they can be deep fried. He makes the griddle version quesadillas larger (~ 7 in diameter)and the fried ones smaller ( ~ 4 in diameter).

I think I mostly restated what others mentioned above but somehow it makes more sense to me now.

Incidentally, he suggests these two fillings:

squash blossom, epazote, and melting cheese for the griddle-baked ones

&

melting cheese and epazote for the fried ones.

Maybe Susanna Trillings, Season of My Heart book on Oaxacan cuisine would have more info. I've looked at it from the library but don't have it at home.

Must try these per ExtraMSG's eg. above...

Edited February 10, 2005 by ludja (log)

[kguetzow]

I prefer flour tortillas, but of course would never turn down any quesadilla. What I love the most is a quesadilla made with just Chihuahua cheese. The oil leaks out of the cheese and coats the outside of the tortillas frying them slightly. Greasy simple and piping hot. MMM! To me the more "stuff" inside, the less quesadilla like they become.

[LarsTheo]

The best ones I've had were from a street vendor in Mexico City (Col. Condesa) that were deep fried, made with fresh masa, and filled with huitlacoche (and some cheese, I think). The woman who made them fried them in a wok, and sat in from of the panaderia on Juan de la Barrera and Matehuala. That was more than 20 years ago, however. She called them empanadas.

Edited February 11, 2005 by LarsTheo (log)

[sladeums]

I may be wrong, but my concept of the difference between quesadillas and empanadas is basically whether or not it is deep/shallow-fried (empanada) or cooked on a dry or lightly-oiled skillet, griddle, comal, open-fire - what-have-you (quesadilla).

Also, I've generally considered an empanada more of a south-of-the-(Mexican)border dish.

I dunno.

[ludja]

My only info is coming from Bayless' book; he seems to imply that in the area of Oaxaca some things that we call quesadilla might be called empanada there sometimes... but then in his actual recipes he calls the essentially dry-griddled ones, "quesadilla asadas" and the shallow/deep fried ones, "quesadilla fritas".

In any case, what was new to me in this thread was the idea of using fresh masa dough to make a grilled/griddled quesadilla.

Edited February 12, 2005 by ludja (log)

[sladeums]

ludja, I've looked at the same passages (I believe) in Bayless' book as you have and know where you are coming from.

Further clarification from actual citizens or, at least, travelers to the area may be helpful.

[ludja]

ludja, I've looked at the same passages (I believe) in Bayless' book as you have and know where you are coming from.

Further clarification from actual citizens or, at least, travelers to the area may be helpful.

←

I agree!

[LarsTheo]

In my own travels in Mexico, I found food names to change with regions and that the areas of Chiapas and Tabasco had different meanings for empanadas than states further north. However, it appears that what I was used to calling empanadas is actually called quesadillas in the more northern states.

I found this site, which is a glossary of Spanish and Mexican food terms, which will be very helpful for me to understand the new cookbooks I just got, two of which are in Spanish. If you look under Antojitos, you will find quesadillas, with several versions of cooking methods. I also found a recipe for deep fried quesadillas in the book Cocina tradicional mexicana by Blanca Nieto in the Oaxacan section. (She also has a recipe for Chalupas in the Morelos section that is very similar to a quesadilla.)

I just got off the phone with a friend in D.F., but she was not feeling well, and so I didn't bother her with questions about this. When I go to D.F. in two weeks, I'll ask more people there and see what they say. I doubt there will be a consensus, however!

[ludja]

Great link LarsTheo; I've already added it to my favorite links under, "epicure", "reference"...

Will be fun to hear about your eating adventures upon your return if you have time.

[LarsTheo]

I asked this on another thread, but it is actually more appropriate to this one:

If a quesadilla does not have cheese, is it still a quesadilla? I'm talking about fresh masa that is flattened into a circle, filled with huitlachoche or meat, and then deep fried. To me, this is more like an empanada, except that it is made with corn instead of wheat. Isn't "queso" an essential ingredient in a quesadilla? Of course I always thought that okra was an essential ingredient for gumbo, since gumbo is the African word for okra, but people in So. Louisiana make what they call "okra gumbo", which to me would be like saying "cheese quesadilla", but they seem to have lost the African meaning of gumbo and often omit okra.

[ASM NY]

If it's a quesadilla, it has to have cheese. In Mexico you will never hear someone say "Quesadilla de queso". That it has cheese is always implied in "quesadilla" but it can have other things in it as well.

As for my favorite type, it's with cheese only, but once it's melted, they would open the quesadilla and grill the cheese on the "comal", making it crispy, then fold it back together.