Critical Couple do it again

[Man]

But if you did have sex with nymphomaniac twins, would you write it up in your blog, with many photographs and describing each sensation in loving detail? Would you wax lyrical and at great length about the starters, the mains and the afters?

It seems to me that professional newspaper restaurant reviewers give a brief overview of where they've been, what they've had, what they liked and disliked, quality of service, price & opening times. Maybe 10 column inches & a small photo. The purpose is to impart enough info for others to either go or not go: not to have to read the subjective ramblings opinions, laced with lots fashionable foodie prose, of a pair of soi-disant food experts.

Let's not take a jocular analogy too far...

But your second point is relevant. There's a choice to be made. I have also lost passion for describing every single dish in great detail. That said, I don't mind when others do.

[Jenni]

Maybe they just enjoy cooking and eating and food in general. Maybe they just enjoy doing reviews. That seems to me to be a more likely reason why they invest so much time in writing a food blog. Too bad they sometimes have different opinions from some eGulleters, but that's not a crime.

FWIW, I don't see why everyone has to get so upset if someone posts a bad review of a restaurant. So what, they didn't like the place. If that's their opinion, they are entitled to share it with whoever they want, on a blog if it pleases them. I know there are a lot of people here in the restaurant business, so there is aprehension over the effect of bad reviews, but I'm all for free speech and don't think people should be stopped from saying they didn't like a restaurant (and why) just for fear that a couple less people will dine there this week if they do. Even if the review is poorly written and many disagree with it, doesn't mean they aren't entitled to express their opinion.

[marcusjames]

I totally agree with all you say Jenni. I think the issue with the CC is they consistently wonder off into un-objective, high handed pastures. For example, as I touched on above, to lampoon a tasting menu without giving the restaurant / chef chance to demonstrate how they've executed it is bang out of order. No chef likes criticism, but when it goes as personally wide of the mark as this I think you can share their frustrations.

[Chef Hermes Blog]

After reading this thread, The Marcus Wareing debarcle and various other chef vs blogger postings across the interweb I wrote a post.

Johnny Mountain came to the defence of CC and tried to moderate the tone of the comments which were being posted. Jay Rayner chipped in by questioning the figures I'd quoted for a blogger and on the blogger front Chris Pople of Cheese 'n' Biscuits made an appearance.

After all this and the debate raging on Twitter nothing from CC, other than after nearly 24hrs of the post going live

some people just don't like bloggers (unless they have Mangalorean recipes on their site)

The silence was deafening.

[Man]

After all this and the debate raging on Twitter nothing from CC, other than after nearly 24hrs of the post going live

some people just don't like bloggers (unless they have Mangalorean recipes on their site)

The silence was deafening.

There are things I like and things I don't like about the CC. Their non-participation in yet another navel-gazing debate among food bloggers counts as a thing I like

In at least some respects they do what they do well, they are smart in using other sites for self-promotion rarely but cleverly, they have the rest of the food bloggers talking about them and not vice-versa, they seem to enjoy themselves enormously, and they don't give a damn about the rest. And if that were not enough, they are even wealthy! No wonder envy raises its ugly head...

[Chef Hermes Blog]

There is no envy 'Man', but as a chef & food blogger (writing from within the industry) I can see both sides of the coin. But what they don't get, clearly is the level of responsibility that comes as your blog grows.

They didn't even have the guts to defend the Michael Caines U-turn, this just shows how weak they are with this concept. At least have b*ll*cks to stand by the courage of your convictions.

[Man]

There is no envy 'Man', but as a chef & food blogger (writing from within the industry) I can see both sides of the coin. But what they don't get, clearly is the level of responsibility that comes as your blog grows.

They didn't even have the guts to defend the Michael Caines U-turn, this just shows how weak they are with this concept. At least have b*ll*cks to stand by the courage of your convictions.

Just to clarify Chef, I wasn't thinking of you when I mentioned envy (rather of the tenor of some other comments).

That said, the concept that the CC have any obligation whatsoever to 'defend' themselves for anything strikes me as bizarre - and I really don't think it's a matter of 'guts' or 'b*ll*cks' (I can just imagine them reading such requests with amusement while sipping some vintage Krug ).

[Man]

Oh, I just saw that they have replied...what a pity, an Olympian detachment would have been more in character.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Man (log)

[Chef Hermes Blog]

Very good with the Krug although I believe DP rose is the weapon of choice

Yes, they even mentioned my blog twice on Twitter to make sure I read it, oh dear.

The fact that they have completely missed the point just makes me laugh & as for the name calling, really how old?

The point of the post was 2 fold, behaviour from bloggers & the responsibility that goes with it esp when somebody like this couple are across Twitter & other websites to drive traffic their way. It just seems to be more than a hobby, with a potential to turn to a business.

In their reply, they say that I've taken their quotes literally, but if you use phrases like you couldn't pay me to go back. Then that, to me at least indicates in the strongest possible terms that you wont be going back.

Yet again it shows just how bad their writing really is or as Jay Rayner commented on my post:

others are sponging, freebie-whores who thump through the English language like elephants on heat

Think he may have a point

[felixhirsch]

Totally agree with you Chef Hermes. The funny thing is that they simply can't accept that sometimes it is they who make mistakes, not the restaurants. To then criticise a chef for making something not right, whilst it is perfectly correct is a bit bizarre. But well, I've given up on them, that Gidleigh Park thing and the reply to Michael Caines tell you all you need to know.

Nice quote from Jay btw

[Jon Tseng]

I very much agree with Felix. Looking at the CC blog I think they have both a lack of technical knowledge and of dining expertise.

Take this review of Ducasse at the Dorch http://www.thecriticalcouple.com/1/post/2011/05/alain-ducasse-at-the-dorchester-not-crispy-not-crackling.html for example.

• For some reason they complain about the bread being cold. Again it shows a lack of experience - in many high end restaurants the bread service is cold rather than fresh from the oven. That's just the style of service. You also get the bread cold at ADPA...
  
• Then they complain about the amuse-bouche being served in a porcelain eggshell. They clearly haven't noticed that Ducasse's motif for the entire restaurant is, er, an egg shell. I mean there's an egg shaped screen about three metres long across the restaurant entrance (http://foodsnobblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/evid_ducasse_1800.jpg). May as well criticise the Fat Duck for having pictures of ducks feet on the menu!
  
• As Felix correctly calls out in the comments section of the article they incorrectly cite a technical error with the jus (if you don't believe its deliberate, check out multiple pictures of the same thing in Ducasse's Grande Livre). Bizarrely they try to contrast it with a Gordan Ramsay's demi-glace (regular observers will notice our Gordon likes his slickly-reduced demi-glaces). Why not compare it to a bechemel or a choron for all the relevance that has???
  

It is fine to be critical, but I simply do not think these are fair criticisms.

What I think is quite telling is in the original Gidleigh Park post when he's taken to task for leaving a couple of millimetres of praline off the top of a dessert ( ). They seem to think it is the obsessiveness of presentation which makes a two-star restaurant.

I think this is where their lack of fine dining experience gives them away. It is interesting to note that they blog shows little outside of the British Isles, apart from a couple of the Spanish trophy destinations. I wonder what they would think if they were presented with Bernard Pacaud's slovenly presented tarte fine au chocolat ( ). Does this meet the exacting standards of three stars???

J

PS Gosh I am becoming a really grumpy old man in my dotage, aren't I?

Edited July 20, 2011 by Jon Tseng (log)

[sped98]

"I very much agree with Felix. Looking at the CC blog I think they have both a lack of technical knowledge and of dining expertise".

Joke of the day that one..... Ohhhh dearie me , its getting a little weary this thread now ,its been pretty entertaining though....Logging on here at 6.30 in the morning when i should be helping manage a Nuclear plant

[felixhirsch]

where's the joke, if I may ask?

Although I do agree, it serves the CC better than anyone to have all of the attention on their blog!

[sped98]

Just looking over their list of restaurants visited....and their total lack of dining expertise.

[Chef Hermes Blog]

Just looking over their list of restaurants visited....and their total lack of dining expertise.

Just because some people go to opera, it doesn't mean that they understand it & these two are a case in point. Money can buy lots of things but taste, style & integrity it can't.

[Jon Tseng]

Just looking over their list of restaurants visited....and their total lack of dining expertise.

Yup.

What's so remarkable about their list of restaurants, pray tell?

Edited July 20, 2011 by Jon Tseng (log)

[felixhirsch]

I have to agree with Jon and Hermes in this case. Most of their experiences are limited to the UK. Not to say there aren't any good restaurants in England, but none can match a Louis XV, Ledoyen or Arpege (and many others on the continent). If you restrict yourself pretty much to one country (they have a few Spanish and ITalian places too) you simply don't look that serious. Especially, if you have no clue about cooking techniques or products. In the end its down to seeing what a superb asparagus, turbot, pigeon or turnip taste like. That's where the limits of eating in the UK are set (even if Mikael jonsson and Steve Harris are working on serving more serious stuff).

[Harters]

Looking at the CC blog I think they have both a lack of technical knowledge and of dining expertise.

Have to say, Jon, that I have read some pretentious comments on this board in my time here but I think this one wins first prize.

And, no, I make no personal claims for coming anywhere close to the knowledge and expertise clearly demonstrated by the CC. I will never have that level of knowledge and expertise and will never be able to afford to consistently eat at the level they, and other contributors here, do. I know that makes me a bad person, unworthy to comment but, hey, tough shit,eh.

[nickloman]

I have to agree with Jon and Hermes in this case. Most of their experiences are limited to the UK. Not to say there aren't any good restaurants in England, but none can match a Louis XV, Ledoyen or Arpege (and many others on the continent). If you restrict yourself pretty much to one country (they have a few Spanish and ITalian places too) you simply don't look that serious.

I reckon it's perfectly possible to critique food without having been to the aforementioned 3* restaurants. Just like it would be perfectly possible to be a poor critic if you had been. My major issue with the Critical Couple is that they can't write particularly well, and they aren't very enjoyable to read. A broader culinary education probably wouldn't change that much.

[felixhirsch]

unfortunately writing about food is perhaps a more complex topic than the British journalists make it out to be. No matter if they're good writers or not, we don't care. The problem is that they don't know much about food and have no culinary references that go much further than the borders of the UK. Its not necessarily a question of having food in a three star, what matters is that you can taste various types of cooking that are at the top of their game. OTherwise, you can't really judge someone. Of course, going to a lot of restaurants in various places would not necessarily make you a good critic, but it would certainly give you that reference base that makes it even possible to criticise others.

[nickloman]

I don't disagree with the idea that the widest possible food experience is desirable in the making of a good or great food writer. And I also agree that many who write blogs - and journalists - fall short of this ideal. But I don't agree with the extreme position that one should not start writing until they have clocked up 20 years of eating experience (for example). However, striving for continued improvement seems a reasonable request. The Critical Couple don't seem to be improving, and remain massively tedious.

[sped98]

I`m only new to the big world of blogging myself ( cumbriafoodie ) and to be totally honest here , i visit the CC website on a couple of occasions every day.I love their write ups and like to try and keep up with them when it comes to the food photography....a little healthy competiton to keep my standards as high as possible.

I use their blog for my own research and selected my last London trip restaurants based purely on their reporting and pics.

Obviously when it comes to blogging theyre well up there with the best that blogging has to offer , they speak from the heart exactly as they find each establishment , both good and not so good in Gidleighs case.....and look what happens , all hell breaks loose.Interesting reading and many smiles but cmon folks....less of the bitching.I look up to the CC as an example of `what to head for` with my own blog....Thousands of visits , lots of friends worldwide and a fantastic hobby.Ive not met these people yet but look forward to doing so very much indeed.

I haven`t made any enemies "yet" from my own blog.Even from my totally terrible experience at Ducasse.Im sure itll happen eventually.Cant please everyone out there.

[felixhirsch]

That is absolutely true. It's of course not only eating that "educates" you, reading cookbooks like the ones of Alain Ducasse's Grand Livre de Cuisine series, or Thoms Keller's certainly helps you understand certain things (e.g. that a proper sauce doesn't look like a sticky, shiny syrup) and the likes. Working in a very good restaurant for a few weeks or so also gives you a different perspective. But, you can't ask too much of the poor people!

Sped, if you're aiming for standards as low as these, you have already surpassed them when it comes to the pictures. It's not the problem of their writing, or their liking of a restaurant or not. Its a problem of them making judgements that have no foundation. Furthermore, they write with a pretty authoritarian style, without knowing what they're saying. That's the problem.

Anyways, your blog certainly does look very good, so keep it up! However, for planning trips to London, Andy Hayler certainly is a less biased source of information.

[nickloman]

I agree with Felix - sped98 you should set your sights higher and I much prefer reading your blog to theirs!

[Man]

I agree with Felix - sped98 you should set your sights higher and I much prefer reading your blog to theirs!

Right, leave those ignorant CC fuckwits with no integrity (using just some of the epithets from this ugly thread) waste their useless time dining and discussing food with the likes of other poor souls like Brett Graham, Pierre Koffmann, Alyn Williams, all people who also, having chosen to cook in the UK, have totally fucked their tastebuds and forgotten what a true turnip tastes like and just keep piling the shit that is available in the UK on the plates of their gullible customers.

What do these CC ignoramuses know after all? They have only sampled most of the best restaurants in the UK, and elsewhere just Ferran Adria' (the idiot is even closing down, so what was the point anyway), the Rocas, Bottura, and Redzepi. How could they possibly have any reference points to express their judgements?

Have they had cuisine explained to them by the true masters of gastronomy, the arbiters of taste, from whose pontifications on jus gras we so much benefit, they who can compare, they who have known the flavour of a really great turnip, they who, surely unlike the rest of humanity, have had the truth revealed to them by reading a book by Ducasse (will the CC even be able to read, one wonders given how poorly they write - but then again have they had the benefit of learning the art of food writing by a master of the pen like Chef Hermes? I rest my case). No! Those useless CC haven't! Unbelievable! How do they dare waste our time?

No...wait a minute...they are not wasting anybody's time - except of course the unfortunate chefs who are forced at gunpoint to endure their unpleasant company and the equally forced readers of their unsufferable blog - and they are even ignoring vulgar and gratuitous insults. What fuckwits.

Oh, it's past 12. Time to end the rant and go down to the harbour to buy the Anstruther crab and lobster just off the boat, and maybe on the way back some Angus beef from the village butcher, feeling sorry for the shit I am forced to eat in the UK, but also thinking of those poor guys in France who will never have tasted the splendor of a burrata still warm from preparation, nor the unmatchable intensity of Italian tomatoes and peppers, nor the velvety minerality of Lazio artichokes...