Definition of "simmer"

[AAQuesada]

Are you being difficult on purpose? These are taken almost directly from textbooks. I guess for home cooking these definitions don't matter so much but in a restaurant these basic techniques are the grammar of the kitchen you need to know the rules before you can break them effectively.

No the liquid is at poaching temperature. Simmering and Poaching happen at different temperatures.

Wet Cooking

Poaching: To cook (something)gently in a liquid that is hot but not bubbling about 160 to 180

Simmer: To cook (something)in a liquid that is bubbling gently about 185 to 205

Boil: To cook (something)in a liquid that is bubbling rapidly at about 212

*sea lvl, normal pressure ect.

If you want to use the terms differently that is up to you!

Ok but even by those definitions you aren't poaching the liquid anymore than your are roasting your oven. I think this is a grammatical rather than scientific question.

If that's not clear I give up!

Edited May 21, 2011 by AAQuesada (log)

[haresfur]

Let me begin by saying that simmering and poaching are words that should be relegated to history - at least for descriptive instructions.

Just as descriptive quantities like 'a pinch', 'a handful' or 'a cupful', are more accurately described by weights (and accurate scales are cheaply available to all), so its well beyond time (the thermometer no longer being an exotic 'modernist' toy) to quote specific temperatures for operations outside the oven.

Its not very long ago that thermostatically-controlled ovens were leading edge, and so recipes would only ever specify something like "a hot oven" or "a very slow oven".

Progress is possible!

Textbook def is bubbling gently btwn 185 and 205 deg Fahrenheit

Ok, but if it's not boiling, why is it bubbling?

Where you don't have a mixture of different boiling-point liquids, the bubbles would indicate localised attainment of boiling temperature.

This would be where there is not enough energy input to raise the temperature of the entire system to boiling point, the heat losses from top and sides making them cooler, while the heat input at the base will make it hotter than the average of the whole panful.

I think 'Simmering' describes the (near steady-state) condition where heat transport away from the base is not always fast enough to prevent hot spots (and/or nucleation sites) from reaching the liquid's boiling point.

Ok. This makes sense. But it does point out the limitation of trying to define "simmer" as a specific temperature. The temperature at the base is just at the boiling temperature but the surface of the liquid will be a little below. And the boiling temperature (temperature at which the liquid becomes a vapour) depends on the composition (e.g. salt content) and the pressure (altitude).

[patrickamory]

It's vague on purpose. Many of the best cookbook authors are less precise just so you will learn to use your senses to learn to cook new dishes.

This may not work for baking, or for certain modernist dishes, but I don't believe that terms like "simmering" should be relegated to history. Nor volume measurements or terms like "a pinch".

If everything could be scientifically determined, we can look forward a future where machines do all the cooking and we just wait in the dining room! Not much fun