Larb Laab Larp

[pim]

Growing up in Thailand, I don't recall ground chicken in anything.  Any chicken was usually hacked up (a large dice, bones and all).  Ground pork, yes.  Come to think of it, I don't even recall anything with ground beef.  And, I believe than about 90% of my "growing up" larb was with raw pork.  Now, this was back in the 1970's, and things may have changed. 

I'll check out "nam sod" and ask some of my Thai friends about it.  It's not ringing a bell.

I am curious, where in Thailand did you grow up? I grew up in Bangkok. Laab, as you well know, is not a local dish of the central area. Though we central plainers have been incorporating dishes from other regions for centuries.

I've followed this Laab discussion with a great interest. It's so wonderful to see something from my culture so completely captivated the forum’s attention. My ancestors would have been amused.

A few interesting points from the discussion. I saw some people sound almost apologetic saying that they omitted Kaffir lime leaves. I find this quite puzzling, Magruud (Kaffir Lime) is not a traditional ingredient of Laab, nor is, in fact, Lemongrass. The particular herb that distinguishes a Laab from other forms of salads is Pak-shee Farang (translated amusingly as Foreigner’s cilantro). I have seen it a few times in the US, mostly in Vietnamese markets. They are called Saw Herb or something like that.

As for the raw lab, and how traditional it is. The Laabs I have seen, and eaten, start out with raw meat, but they most certainly get cooked, to varying degree of done-ess. I know that the people in the North and Northeast do eat Laab Luerd (litterally blood laab), which are of course raw, and with plenty of blood in the dressing. This is by no means the most popular form of Laab in Thailand. They are in fact regarded with some suspicion by the general population.

[pim]

Larb at a cookout sounds wonderful to me, I'm in.

Couldn't you make everything and put the lime juice in a seperate container? At the last minute toss the lime in and serve. I have done this with ceviche and it was very easy.

good idea guajolote,

at the very least, i'll mince the chicken (yeah, chicken) the day before. i cook it with lime juice, so i'll probably just wait til the next day to dress it. or, i can cook it with just stock, and dress it the next day. either way, i'll have to leave out the cilantro, red pepper, and scallion until the last minute, as i don't want them to go limp.

i'm going to go ahead and do this. i'll report back.

yours, in larb,

tommy

Laab at a cook out is really not that outlandish an idea. In Thailand, many Laab vendors sell their laabs at open air markets. Everything is set up mise en place, around a portable gas stove, each order is cooked a la minute right there out in the open. It is how it's done in open air markets in Thailand.

You can have much of the same preparation at your barbeque. Make sure you have your ground chicken, rice powder, sliced shallots, chopped cilantro, chopped green onion, chopped mint, and Pak-shee Farang if you can find it

Take a 3-quart sauce pan, heat it up nice and hot, in goes about two cups of chicken, add a bit regular chicken stock (not the non-fat variety)--just a tiny bit, the key here is to moisten the chicken and keep it from sticking to the pan. You don't want to boil or poach the chicken here. I recommend adidng the stock because ground chicken in Thailand most certainly include some skin, so it is nice and juicy and won't stick to the pan without any additional oil or stock. Ground breast meat will need some extra help.

Now back to your pot, stir the chicken around real good, add your fish sauce now, a few shakes from the bottle will do, you can add more later should you need to. When the chicken is very nearly done, add a handful shallots, give it a couple more stirs, then rice powder(about a tbsp), then chilli powder, then a tiny sprinkle of sugar. Take it off the fire, add lime juice, then a handful or so of the chopped herbs (more cilantro, a little less mint and green onion). Give it a good stir and taste, adjust the seasonings if you need to.

Of course you can do this in the comfort of your own kitchen too. I once had a party where I prepared everything mise en place, then my friends took turn making their own Laab and Somtum (Papaya salad) in the kitchen. It was great fun!! Everyone loved it, even my non-gourmet friends felt like one.

A note on Authenticity: Yes it is true that there are endless permutation of Laab, but a core set of ingredients remains the same, and the preparation remains mostly the same.

I will not give you proportions of the dressing, only that the taste of laab is supposed to be Hot, Sour, and Salty, in that order.

Have fun!!

Edited July 1, 2003 by pim (log)

[Jason Perlow]

I realize this is an insane idea, but I am thinking about creating a chicken or turkey burger that tastes like larb...

patty made of ground chicken, with fish sauce, green chiles, toasted rice powder, with a lemongrass/galangal/lime mayo? With the lettuce leaf under the burger patty on the bun?

[slkinsey]

I realize this is an insane idea, but I am thinking about creating a chicken or turkey burger that tastes like larb...

ground chicken, with fish sauce, green chiles, lime juice and mint, with a lemongrass/galangal mayo with toasted ground rice in it? With the lettuce leaf under the burger patty on the bun?

Um... that sounds awesome! You must do it and report back the results!

[torakris]

I realize this is an insane idea, but I am thinking about creating a chicken or turkey burger that tastes like larb...

ground chicken, with fish sauce, green chiles, lime juice and mint, with a lemongrass/galangal mayo with toasted ground rice in it? With the lettuce leaf under the burger patty on the bun?

At the Thai festival here in Tokyo last month, I tried a larb burger.

It was larb, not shaped into a patty but loose and sandwiched between to english muffins, it was an interesting way to eat it, but I think I prefer it with out the bread.

Your version sounds good though Jason!

[Jason Perlow]

I'm thinking they might also work as appetizer/hourderve meatballs with the mayo used as a dipping sauce.

[mamster]

Last night I had a burger than was not exactly larbish, but it was topped with Thai slaw, which makes an awesome burger topping. Shredded cabbage, a little grated carrot, scallions, fish sauce, lime juice, garlic, chiles, sugar, peanuts. Someone had thrown some portobello slices on the grill and offered me some, so I threw a couple of those on, too. Even with a frozen Costco patty, this was a very good burger.

[Jason Perlow]

Larb balls, first attempt:

The ones on the left have been poached in a fish sauce and chicken bouillion broth. The ones on the right have been pan fried in stir fry oil.

Dipping sauce is a mix of lime juice, fish sauce and bottled Vietnamese "spring roll dipping sauce"

[Jason Perlow]

Well, as it was a first run, we basically went with your larb recipe except that we added powdered lemongrass instead of using fresh lemongrass and some fresh ginger in addition to the powdered galangal, and we used lime zest instead of the kaffir lime leaves, but we may use some lime leaves in a different dipping sauce than the one we used here. I think we underseasoned them a bit, especially the chiles, so we will double or triple the amount. We used an egg as a binder for 2lbs of meat (half ground turkey, half ground pork). There's also chopped thai basil and chopped mint in this.

Overall these are really good for a first try but we need to use a larger quantity of spices. Herbally I think we used the correct amount of scallion and shallot. Still tweaking the recipe, we'll post when we get it right, hopefully tomorrow.

I cant say I like the poached or the fried better, they are both really good. The fried you get this nice crunchyness on the outside, but the poaching of the balls in a chicken/fish sauce broth makes them taste really good too. We will probably prepare both for the party, maybe make 2 different dipping sauces.

[Rachel Perlow]

They were yummy. Here's the work in progress recipe for Larb Balls.

[Shiewie]

I've experimented with something similar - was trying to recreate the pork patties in the Bun Cha I had in Hanoi.

I used:

- 800g to 1 kg (approx 2 lbs) of minced pork

- minced garlic (5 to 6 cloves), minced shallots (3 to 4), minced fresh lemongrass (3 fat sticks) - these are then pounded in a mortar and pestle so that lemongrass oils are released - it's not as fragrant if a blender / food processor is used instead

- honey (around 2 heaping tbsp), sesame oil (1 1/4 tsp), oyster sauce (1 tbsp), soya sauce, fish sauce (2 - 3 tbsp), salt (to taste) and ground black pepper (to taste)

- cornflour (approx 2 tsp) to bind the mixture

I grill them in the oven at 200C / 400F for about 30 - 40 minutes until they're well-browned.

I also served them like how you did - with cucumbers, butterhead lettuce, thai basil plus some cilantro and a sweet chilli sauce. Some preferred to dip it in Nuoc Leo, the peanut dipping sauce for Goi Cuon, the Vietnamese fresh spring rolls.

We also made them into little sausages to try as a filling for the fresh spring rolls.

[Jinmyo]

Very nice, Jason and Rachel. How about shrimp and pork? Or lobster and pork?

[Jason Perlow]

Very nice, Jason and Rachel. How about shrimp and pork? Or lobster and pork?

Sure, those would be tasty, but it wouldn't be Larb. Then again I'm not sure this is Larb either.

[mamster]

I'm don't know about lobster, but I'm sure shrimp get larbed in Thailand. They'll larb anything.

[snowangel]

I'm don't know about lobster, but I'm sure shrimp get larbed in Thailand.  They'll larb anything.

I think that would be more called a yam, yum, whatever the correct English spelling is for a salad. know one of my favorites is a squid salad with shallots, hot peppers, lime juice and cilantro.

[mamster]

Could you chop up the shrimp and call it larb? Larb goong?

[formerly grueldelux]

While we're at it, why not stuff mini larb balls into dumplings or pot stickers?

[torakris]

I have made chicken patties similar to this before and for a nice crunch I added water chestnuts that had been chopped. It was very very good but now getting farther and farther removed from larb.

I like the combo of pork and shrimp, it is the only way I make my shumai now, along with either water chestnuts or renkon (lotus root) for crunch. I guess I like crunch in my foods.....................

just not panko on my sashimi

[Jason Perlow]

LARBURGERS!

Sauce / dressing is a combination of mayo, hoisin sauce and coriander chutney.

[tommy]

the hoi sin concerns me jason. concerns me greatly.

[Jason Perlow]

the hoi sin concerns me jason.  concerns me greatly.

Well, its served on a baguette, so that kinda makes it a Banh Mi. Hoisin is typically used as a condiment on Banh Mi sandwiches. I realize thats Vietnamese and not Thai, but Jesus Christ, we've already bastardized the hell out of this dish by making them into meatballs. I don't think its going too far, do ya?

I also felt with given all the other spices the dish need a little bit of sweetness. You know, to keep the Southeast Asian Hot/Sour/Salty/Sweet thing in complete balance.

[tommy]

Well, its served on a baguette, so that kinda makes it a Banh Mi. Hoisin is typically used as a condiment on Banh Mi sandwiches. I realize thats Vietnamese and not Thai, but Jesus Christ, we've already bastardized the hell out of this dish by making them into meatballs. I don't think its going too far, do ya?

stick with pate. trust me. m'kay?

[Jason Perlow]

Yes, but these were really, really good.

And I think Hoisin is used in Thai cuisine as well.

[Jason Perlow]

Yeah we were gonna do mint and basil but I opted for the hoisin.

To make it even larbier, next time I will likely whip up some actual larb lime juice/fish sauce dressing with lots of dried chile in it. Thats probably what I am going to bring to the party saturday.

[tommy]

try getting kaffir as well. it's so distinct. i think it will really make them pop. and fresh lemongrass too. why didn't you opt for fresh?

a dressing of simple nuoc cham would probably serve it well as well. not much unlike the vietnamese sandwiches that are dressed with it. a samling of a few dressings/dippings sauces might be nice.

Edited July 10, 2003 by tommy (log)