sake vs rice wine

[jrcrunch]

currently im using ume-sake for my cooking (which i got as a gift from my friend)

i havent tried using normal sake for my cooking. but im wondering if i can use regular rice wine as analternative to japanese sake. chinese rice wine is generally cheaper and easier to find to where im from. most japanese products here are expensive.

Edited March 5, 2009 by jrcrunch (log)

[Hiroyuki]

I'm not sure what you mean by ume-sake and Chinese rice wine, but in Japanese cooking, sake is usually used.

[helenjp]

You are wasting ume-shu if you cook with it, except in rare cases!

The cheapest substitute for sake would be Korean sake (I have bought it outside Japan and it's quite close, forget the name/brands sorry).

The type of Chinese rice wine used for cooking vs. sake is a bit like sherry vs. a light white wine. Sake is much lighter in taste and clear in color.

[torakris]

I second Helen, please don't cook with the ume-shu, it should be saved for drinking. I really don't see it as a substitute for sake as the flavor is quite different.

Sake has a much more subtle flavor than Chinese rice wine, I use both and while I would substitute sake for the rice wine I would rarely substitute the rice wine for sake.

The only time I would substitute rice wine for sake would be in a marinade where I would prefer a stronger flavor. I would avoid it in sauces, things like teriyaki sauces or sukiyaki for example where it would be too strong.

If possible I would also suggest buying "real" sake instead of "cooking" sake, if you don't have a Japanese market where you are trying looking in a liquor shop.

[Hiroyuki]

If jrcrunch really means umeshu and Chinese rice wine (紹興酒 shokushu in Japanese) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaoxing_wine

the answer is simple: NO! I've never thought of using them as a substitute for sake.

[v. gautam]

When you advise " buy drinking sake", I did once; here it comes in a 750 ml bottle, like regular wine, and the gentleman at the wine store advised me to store it in the refrigerator and use it up within 3 days if possible.

That would not be an issue in a normal Japanese family cooking many Japanese dishes, I realize, but what advice would you have for us who might want to cook single items and not necessarily on consecutive days to finish off the good (expensive!!) sake?

What sort of sake can you have sitting around to use when the mood strikes you to make a Japanese meal? Even something that will remain under refrigeration would be nice.

Please don't say Kikkoman! I have given up on Kikkoman, after I read on their HON (!!) Mirin label: first item : Glucose, Sugar, corn syrup, alcohol, water. Hello, I can put together all that junk for way less money I thought. Same with the dashi mix in the big box, Hon dashi: Glucose; .... Now I make my own (admittedly less exciting to tastebuds corrupted by you-know-who]. The less said about Kotteri-mirin et al. the better. We do not get here the mirin-fu that H-san uses .

Thanks much.

[Hiroyuki]

When you advise " buy drinking sake", I did once; here it comes in a 750 ml bottle, like regular wine, and the gentleman at the wine store advised me to store it in the refrigerator and use it up within 3 days if possible.

That would not be an issue in a normal Japanese family cooking many Japanese dishes, I realize, but what advice would you have for us who might want to cook single items and not necessarily on consecutive days to finish off the good (expensive!!) sake?

What sort of sake can you have sitting around to use when the mood strikes you to make a Japanese meal? Even something that will remain under refrigeration would be nice.

Please don't say Kikkoman! I have given up on Kikkoman, after I read on their HON (!!) Mirin label: first item : Glucose, Sugar, corn syrup, alcohol, water. Hello, I can put together all that junk for way less money I thought. Same with the dashi mix in the big box, Hon dashi: Glucose; .... Now I make my own (admittedly less exciting to tastebuds corrupted by you-know-who]. The less said about Kotteri-mirin et al. the better. We do not get here the mirin-fu that H-san uses .

Thanks much.

←

Just disregard what the salesperson said. You can easily test for yourself to see if sake goes bad so quickly. From my experience, I think that sake can keep for two or three months and even half a year provided that it's stored in a cool, dark place.

[torakris]

Like Hiroyuki　said you can keep it for some time. I buy 2L cartons and it takes a good 6 months to go through it. I keep it cool dark cupboard. I think for optimum drinking flavor you would want to use it up in a couple days but for cooking purposes you will be fine.

[v. gautam]

Thank you both, very much indeed. That was something new to learn, and quite a relief! Actually, with regard to my own faculties, since I don't drink and don't like to put alcohol in my mouth, it becomes difficult to judge anything about wines; I also do not like the taste and burn, so that confounds things further, about being able to judge even something that is about to spoil, unless it has become vinegary.

Someone once told me, vermouth is the only way to go when cooking with wine for day to day use because it does not spoil easily; and I did, just because I cook only very occasionally and then just to satisfy my curiosity. Then another person came along and declared, you are such an idiot! Vermouth, even the non-bitter sort, should never be employed. So I wondered why two admitted experts would differ so greatly. I am not going to spend $10-15/bottle of wine just to evaporate its alcohol away!!

I cringe when the real, expensive traditional mirin is thus de-alcoholized for the sake of its sugary fractions in good Japanese cooking as well! One is paying for the difficult brewing process that creates the alcohol, plus the tax on the same. Amazake makes for a similar if slightly less complex range of sweeteners, being rice starch broken down by microbes into simpler sugars [one half of the mirin process].

Anyway, thanks for clearing up this problem so neatly.

Edited March 7, 2009 by v. gautam (log)

[smallworld]

I actually think that Chinese rice wine and sake can be used interchangeably, at least if there is no intention of keeping a recipe purely Japanese (or purely Chinese). A Chinese stir-fry can change into a Japanese itamemono if the alcohol is switched. I have a few recipes that can go from Chinese to Japanese to Italian by changing the alcohol (and usually a few other seasonings), liked steamed clams or sauteed rapini.

I also have a feeling that sake that comes in a glass bottle with the advice to use it up within a few days is too good to use for cooking. I do prefer to cook with drinking sake, but not the really good stuff, and if given the choice between cheap cooking sake and expensive drinking sake I'd choose the cooking sake (unless it was for a really special dish).

Or I'd just use a light dry white wine, which in my opinion is the best sake substitute.

[smallworld]

Oh yeah, and I think umeshu is lovely to cook with (as long as it's not being used as a substitute for sake). An umeshu reduction makes a great base for sauce to serve with pork, lamb or duck.

[Domestic Goddess]

I would really appreciate if somebody can post pics of cooking sake? I might be able to find them here in specialty food shelves in Seoul department stores.

[Hiroyuki]

I would really appreciate if somebody can post pics of cooking sake? I might be able to find them here in specialty food shelves in Seoul department stores.

←

Here they are. Some come in glass bottles while others come in plastic ones.

[JasonTrue]

Gaku Homma advised using sake in cooking once it loses its charm in drinking... the old sake smell doesn't cause any real problems in cooking.

[budrichard]

In the USA Chinese wine for cooking is sold with salt added to avoid the alcohol tax and regulations for sale. It is terrible stuff. True unadulterated Chinese wine has become difficult to obtain so we have gone to substituting jug sake from California which works quite well.

We also have the Mirin salt problem and i just happen to get a gallon of unsalted mirin from a 55 gal barrel that somehow got imported into the USA. After that is gone, I don't know what i will do for real Mirin.-Dick

[v. gautam]

Dick,

Worth a look:

1.Natural Import Company

9 Reed Street Suite A

Asheville, NC 28803

1-800-324-1878 / 1-828-277-8870

Contact: Crystal Macdonald

info@naturalimport.com

http://www.naturalimport.com

http://www.mitoku.com/distributors/index.html#unitedstates

2."Sumiya's grandfather was able to produce a mirin that was rich and delicious beyond everyone's expectations. It was named Mikawa Mirin, literally "three-river mirin," in honor of its birthplace....Authentic and organic mirin, such as the Mikawa products, contain only sweet rice, water, rice and rice koji (natural rice culture)."

http://www.qualitynaturalfoods.com/recipes2.html

Quality Natural Foods

PO Box 16391

Hooksett, NH 03106

Toll Free 1-888-392-9237

sales@qualitynaturalfoods.com

3. http://www.simply-natural.biz/Mirin-Info.php

Mitoku Organic Mikawa Mirin 5 oz Glass Bottle $4.79

Mitoku Organic Mikawa Mirin 10 oz Glass Bottle $8.99

Mitoku Organic Mikawa Mirin 32 oz Glass Bottle $26.65

Mitoku Organic Mikawa Mirin 1 Gal. Plastic Jug $99.92

No salt, I think.

Now my question for you: What is the brand name of this CA jug sake, please? Thanks.

Gautam.

Edited March 22, 2009 by v. gautam (log)