Using a Pacojet

[Kareen]

Having one of those interesting machine to my disposition, I found myself thinking about the possible uses of a PacoJet. Apart from the typical sorbet, has anyone ever tried to use it with various food... let's say nuts, caramel or anything other than a frozen liquid?

Please help me in my mental quest to find new ways to use this great tool!

[tan319]

Having one of those interesting machine to my disposition, I found myself thinking about the possible uses of a PacoJet.  Apart from the typical sorbet, has anyone ever tried to use it with various food... let's say nuts, caramel or anything other than a frozen liquid?

Please help me in my mental quest to find new ways to use this great tool!

I would also like to hear some info from people on this machine,(Steve, Michael??)

I was just speaking to a pastry chef friend of mine in NYC this morning and he was telling me about his new Paco.

IThe last time I was in NYC I had suggested him using stabilizer in his ice cream and sorbets and he did , liking his results. He was using a Taylor.

Now, he said he has had to readjust his recipes because the Paco makes it soupy, I believe.

The reason I want to know is that I have to convince my owner to get a machine of some type and the Paco is cheaper, correct?

I love the small Taylor. It's just a heavy hit, pricewise.

My question is, is it user friendly(ie: people doing service who are not focused on quality, etc.?)

[Michael Laiskonis]

Kareen, who started this thread, is one of my assistants. We were discussing gianduja and nut/praline pastes one day recently and at one point we both simultaneously looked at our Pacojet (which sits on the counter right next to my Taylor batch freezer, incidentally). She asked whether the Paco could produce these kinds of things, and I suggested she pose the question here, as I was curious to see who, if anyone, would bite! I need to learn these techniques, too!

When I acquired the Paco, or rather, rescued it from abandonment in a dusty closet, I had to start from zero. The literature and recipe books that are available from the company are quirky at best, and offer little as to the science behind the formulas, or how to exploit the machine, using the technology to tread some new ground. I tend to see it used often as an equal replacement for the conventional batch freezer, but apart from convenience or portion control, I think the Paco should be approached as a unique, quite separate entity.

What can be frustrating is the continued absence of Pacojet-specific recipes out there... sure they surface from time to time in Art Culinaire, however, say, Pastry Art and Design, who prints advertisements for the machine, has not, to my knowledge, ever run a treatise on its uses, nor do they often publish recipes utilizing it. Try an internet search- the last time I did, I didn't find anything all that exciting. When I can pay lip service to the Paco- in a demo or published recipe- I do, in hopes of making such recipes more commonplace.

On sorbets and ice creams, yes adjustments have to be made, in the form of sugar and fat content. Stabilizers are often unnecessary as well, though I still like to boost the dry extract of my bases with things like powdered glucose and dry dairy powders. It can be tempting to simply fill a beaker with chopped fruit and sugar syrup and give it a go, but I'm working from the other direction- weaning myself off of the Taylor by adjusting my old recipes to take advantage of all the Paco has to offer, which in turn informs me and leads toward formulating new bases 'tailored' for it alone. I have the working knowledge of how water, fat, sugar, dry matter, stabilizer, etc. perform when frozen in a batch freezer, yet I find, with the Paco, I'm left with pure trial and error to enlighten me!

As for the nut pastes, ground spice blends, or other possible uses, I have yet to get down and dirty. I did just recently try an Adrià recipe for a "powdered chocolate ice cream". I liked it a lot and am pondering what I'll do with it. Funny, though, as I can't help wonder if this was the result of a happy accident on the part of Adrià, as it is essentially a ganache, but when processed it is sort of pebble-like, not exactly a granité- was he initially looking for a different result?! Very cool, nonetheless...

[tan319]

On sorbets and ice creams, yes adjustments have to be made, in the form of sugar and fat content. Stabilizers are often unnecessary as well, though I still like to boost the dry extract of my bases with things like powdered glucose and dry dairy powders. It can be tempting to simply fill a beaker with chopped fruit and sugar syrup and give it a go, but I'm working from the other direction- weaning myself off of the Taylor by adjusting my old recipes to take advantage of all the Paco has to offer, which in turn informs me and leads toward formulating new bases 'tailored' for it alone. I have the working knowledge of how water, fat, sugar, dry matter, stabilizer, etc. perform when frozen in a batch freezer, yet I find, with the Paco, I'm left with pure trial and error to enlighten me!

thanks very much for the info, Michael. I really appreciate it.

I have 2 questions for you.

1- how and why do you used powdered Glucose?

Is it more efficient?

I've had an idea for the packaging of the gooey stuff for awhile.

also, where did you see the Adria recipe? I'd love to have a look at it, if possible.

thanks!

[Michael Laiskonis]

OK. Powdered glucose, or glucose atomisé... There is surely a longer, better explanation that I'm uncapable of giving, but here is the short form...

All sorbet and ice cream formulas can be broken down into percentages of water and dry matter, right? Water in its frozen state crytallizes, and though the crystals created by freezing/agitation are small, its tendency is to expand into larger crystals, which makes for a poorly textured sorbet. By increasing the dry matter enough, you are keeping those water molecules apart, inhibiting the spread of crystallization. Using powdered glucose, dry milk, dextrose, etc., you are getting the benefits of those ingredients without the excess water. I hope I'm making sense.

The target percentage of dry matter (again, simply everything that is not water) seems to lie between 31-34%. Powdered glucose can factor in up to 5-6% of total weight. Some of the fruit purée manufacturers have created sorbet formula charts for their products- I've seen both Boiron's and Ravifruit's. These charts illustrate the concept and typically calculate the dry matter for you; they can give you an idea or a starting point, and I've adjusted most formulas as I've come along. Everything does have its limit, of course. Too much stabilizer or powdered sugar products will result in sticky, gummy textures.

I find ice cream and sorbet 'technology' fascinating as there is so much to learn and consider. Having said that, the Paco presents us with a whole different set of criteria. We're making sorbet 'backwards', in a sense, starting with a solid, frozen mass. At the same time solving problems, yet creating new ones, yes?

On to Adrià's Powdered Chocolate Ice Cream. I've seen two references to it; one, in an article on the El Bulli press site, and two, from the materials of Adrià's November 2002 class at French Pastry School in Chicago. The magazine article saw it paired with corn and toffee, while the dessert demo'd in his class combined it with a lime gelée and wasabi purée. I'm still looking for a way to personalize it, but here is the recipe, in English...

Powdered Chocolate Ice Cream

Albert Adrià

80g chocolate couverture, 70%

30g cocoa powder

30g sucrose

100g heavy cream, 35% fat

300g water

1. Combine and boil water, cream, sugar, and cocoa powder. Remove from heat and combine with chopped chocolate, melting thoroughly for a homogenous texture.

2. Transfer to a Pacojet beaker and freeze for 24 hours.

3. Process in Pacojet. "Return to freezer to stabilize." Repeat.

Also, thanks to tan319 and his link to ICC, I found a downloadable PDF file of Paco-specific recipes. Not surprisingly, its in Spanish, but it may be useful!

Edited March 10, 2003 by Michael Laiskonis (log)

[tan319]

Michael,

the pacojet recipes look cool.

I guess you and your assistant will be a bit busier for awhile?

:-)

[tan319]

Michael,

the 'polvo helado' recipe and pic looks pretty wild!

thanks for the link.

Edited March 11, 2003 by tan319 (log)

[tan319]

On to Adrià's Powdered Chocolate Ice Cream. I've seen two references to it; one, in an article on the El Bulli press site, and two, from the materials of Adrià's November 2002 class at French Pastry School in Chicago. The magazine article saw it paired with corn and toffee, while the dessert demo'd in his class combined it with a lime gelée and wasabi purée. I'm still looking for a way to personalize it, but here is the recipe, in English...

Powdered Chocolate Ice Cream

Albert Adrià

80g chocolate couverture, 70%

30g cocoa powder

30g sucrose

100g heavy cream, 35% fat

300g water

1. Combine and boil water, cream, sugar, and cocoa powder. Remove from heat and combine with chopped chocolate, melting thoroughly for a homogenous texture.

2. Transfer to a Pacojet beaker and freeze for 24 hours.

3. Process in Pacojet. "Return to freezer to stabilize." Repeat.

Also, thanks to tan319 and his link to ICC, I found a downloadable PDF file of Paco-specific recipes. Not surprisingly, its in Spanish, but it may be useful!

Btw, in that polvo chocolate recipe page I also noticed the turron recipe.

This is a nougut,correct?

I've noticed lot's of them on these various Spanish pastry sites.

can you explain why they're so prevalent?

[Michael Laiskonis]

Charlie (and of course, Michelle, Andrew, etc.) was one of the first chefs to embrace the Paco, from what I understand. Chances are all the sorbets and ice creams you've ever had at CT were made in one. Essentially, this machine is a high speed, pressurized food processor. Ingredients are placed in a beaker and frozen to 0ºF, then processed on the Pacojet to create superfine textured purées...

[tan319]

Kareen, Michael, Got any new stuff going with the Paco Jet?

Just curious...:-)

[Michael Laiskonis]

Got any new stuff going with the Paco Jet?

It's been a busy couple of weeks, and actually, all of my Paco beakers have been occupied anyway. But I do have some ideas...

One recent quest has been to nail down a perfect olive oil ice cream/sorbet to put in place during the spring. The last attempt, an adaptation of a Chibois recipe, was too fatty, producing a broken, grainy texture, but offered the best flavor. In the same vein, I'm also working on the balance of a mascarpone sorbet- again pushing it until the fat content is just right. And then a beurre noisette ice cream- dealing with the same issues; though a staple on my menu and one of my favorite flavors, it is very temperamental. Do look for an apricot-yogurt (powder) sorbet for the Paco that should come out in PAD soon. Apart from that, just mental exercises...

tan, on the turron, I think it has come to encompass more than just a classical nougat style candy- including praline and ganache type products. I could be wrong on this, but I see the word being used quite liberally.

Edited March 18, 2003 by Michael Laiskonis (log)

[tan319]

ummmm, buerre noisette, yum!

what is the olive oil ice cream taste like? Not to be a weirdo, but, it it sweet, nutty, salty? I haven't had one yet.

How soon do you think the P&A thing will be out?

[Michael Laiskonis]

Yeah, brown butter is one of my all time favorites. The ice cream is great, but even using only milk (no cream), and some starch as a binder, it has a very small window texture-wise when spun in the batch freezer. I'm still on a quest for the perfect beurre noisette ganache. How can I infuse a delicate ganache with all that nutty goodness?

I've done some work with "browned milk solids"... slowly, slowly reducing cream until you are left with essentially clarified butter and the caramelized solids, you get the brown "butter" without the fat (I strain the fat and use it to sauté, brush feuille de brik, etc.), but the flavor isn't quite the same. Here is an application for this method, in the form of a Cider-Beurre Noisette Caramel. Though Grant Achatz' description of his caramelized dairy in sous vide at Trio has got me anxious to try that as well.

As for the olive oil ice cream, I want something very subtle and light, with just the finish of the olive oil's flavor and texture- the oil you use is going to determine what that is- with very subtle suggestions of vanilla and perhaps an herb or flower as well. We have this beautiful, though ridiculously expensive, estate oil from Manni. The Per Mio Figlio is just perfectly balanced and nuanced enough to find some cool uses in pastry. I've tried a few olive oil ice cream/sorbets that were almost greasy in texture, which is not what I'm after. And I'm not looking to add salt in this particular application, but I can easily see it working.

And look for my over-exposure come summer...

Edited March 18, 2003 by Michael Laiskonis (log)

[tan319]

Yeah, brown butter is one of my all time favorites. The ice cream is great, but even using only milk (no cream), and some starch as a binder, it has a very small window texture-wise when spun in the batch freezer. I'm still on a quest for the perfect beurre noisette ganache. How can I infuse a delicate ganache with all that nutty goodness?

I've done some work with "browned milk solids"... slowly, slowly reducing cream until you are left with essentially clarified butter and the caramelized solids, you get the brown "butter" without the fat (I strain the fat and use it to sauté, brush feuille de brik, etc.), but the flavor isn't quite the same. Here is an application for this method, in the form of a Cider-Beurre Noisette Caramel. Though Grant Achatz' description of his caramelized dairy in sous vide at Trio has got me anxious to try that as well.

As for the olive oil ice cream, I want something very subtle and light, with just the finish of the olive oil's flavor and texture- the oil you use is going to determine what that is- with very subtle suggestions of vanilla and perhaps an herb or flower as well. We have this beautiful, though ridiculously expensive, estate oil from Manni. The Per Mio Figlio  is just perfectly balanced and nuanced enough to find some cool uses in pastry. I've tried a few olive oil ice cream/sorbets that were almost greasy in texture, which is not what I'm after. And I'm not looking to add salt in this particular application, but I can easily see it working.

And look for my over-exposure come summer...

looking forward to the over exposure.

The brown butter caramel cider thing is cool.I was doing something similar 2 winters ago as a sauce for a free form apple tart.I did a caramel, deglazed with an apple concentrate, meanwhile browning butter and hitting it with calvados.

Then I combined. At first I was having trouble with it separating after a while , but then I started burr mixing the brown butter into it and it worked like a charm! No separation, total groove.

I didn't know the Achatz thing was still going. The Caramelized sous vide dairy sounds kind of like a dulce de leche.Very cool!

BTW, do you know what a 'mate' or a 'drap' is?

Damn, I'm full of questions tonight.

My apologies if it's annoying!

Thanks for the info. Sounds good!!!

[Steve Klc]

Michael--try the 0% fromage blanc from Vermont Butter and Cheese Company in your olive oil ice cream.

[andygrif]

Just a quick question about the pacojet...well 2 actually.

1.) How long does it take to p-ize one beaker ?

2.) What difference does inhibiting the air pressure on return pass of the blades make.

I think i'm getting that right from the website.

Andy

[Steve Klc]

Hi Andy:

1) a few minutes. also note you don't have to pacotize a whole beaker at a time, you can set it to do a portion of the beaker if that's all you need;

2) the release valve is a density thing--pressing it during the process and expelling the pressure allows you to get just a little fluffier texture, it allows for some more expansion.

[chefturnedbum]

I am going to get a Pacojet fr my place. Can anyone share and stories about their own pacojet. Also I know there is a knockoff version somewhere. Does anyone have any info on the name or where to get it or any horror stories or success with that version. I would like to get two but maybe cannot afford a pair of real ones (lol). I may have to sell my relatives.

CTB in Seattle WA.

[Drewman]

The only problem I've had is when it breaks down, you can't fix it yourself. You FedEx it overnight, they repair it that same day & FedEx it back to you. Great service, but you'll have to do without it for a day. Also, plan on spending $400-500 once a year for routine maintenance. Call them after it's 1 year old, ship it out, they tune it up & ship it right back to you.

[tan319]

I don't own one but have worked with them and actually was around when an infamous repair had to be done.

We had two, one in each restaurant and one of them developed a problem with the stem thing that "spins" the mix.

We got the part and the repair guy actually walked us thru the repair over the phone.

Worked out great.

RE: Knockoff version: Never heard of it but when we had that Paco taken apart I had serious thoughts of taking photos and such.

Reminds me of reading this story in the NYT about these guys who have designed a

liquid nitro ref. ice cream machine and are rolling out franchises for their store.

How many times have I thought of trying to design an ice cream machine, a cheap one, using the same principle?

Guess I should have studied physics, engineering, ec., etc....

[devinf]

The pacojet changes the rules when it comes to ice creams and sorbets. I still spin my ice creams in a traditional machine (Taylor 100B), but do some crazy stuff with my pacojet. Since you can spin to order it's great! I've noticed some concotions can "break" in a pacojet - so you can't spin them too many times - but most things that you can freeze you can turn into sorbet/ice cream.

Have fun with it

Devin

[maggie]

What's this about servicing once a year? Does that mean if you use it every single day? What if you're only an occasional Jetter? When we got ours, we had great plans, and we played with it a lot until one of the pm platers didn't put it all together one night and stripped the rotor or something. $350 later, and 2 weeks! it came back, good as new, and now we only use it for emergency vanilla ice cream spinning. Are there people out there being more inventive? What are some of the crazy things people are doing with it? And where do you FedEx it for emergencies (just in case!)?

[tan319]

You should have some sticker/tag on it saying where you got it from, maggie., They can tell you where to service it.

I was on the East Coast, it was a place in New Jersey.

RE: Weird things you can do with the 'jet.

Mainly frozen powders, the El Bulli guys came up with these, I think.

A result of overprocessing?

Will get back to this later.

[maggie]

We've done a little of that. It does seem like it happens accidentally, and I have even done it accidentally! But, I was just wondering if anyone had done anything else. The booklet says you can make sorbet from just fruit, but I haven't tried it yet. And yes, our service center is in Commack, NY. We're in Tennessee! But they do allow FedEx trucks in east Tennessee. Thanks for the info!

[devinf]

For service our spot is that same place in NJ. Luckily we have two, because one of ours is currently busted and waiting for me to pack it up and ship it...

As far as things to do, yes just throw in chunks of fruit, simple syrup and go to town. I still prefer to puree my fruit first so I can tweak with flavor before freezing/spinning. Just the other day we had some extra grapes so I made up a grape verjus sorbet. Had some left over citrus segments, tasted awesome with a touch of black pepper. Melons work great so do berries. I had done an olive oil sorbet, but it was a one time deal - I spun it the next day and it broke.

I find that spinning the canisters twice will give you a very nice, smooth texture. Some mixtures will also need a bit of time to set up, others you can do to order. Seriously, just dump stuff into the canister, freeze and then try it out. Play! The only thing to worry about is too much sugar, then the stuff just won't stay frozen.

Devin