Grand Tier Restaurant, Metropolitan Opera

[markk]

In my search for restaurants convenient to The Metropolitan Opera, I realized that you can't get closer than dining right in the lobby of the opera house:

at the Grand Tier Restaurant.

I see that it's now run by the Patina Group (I've had good experiences with them in the past in L.A., but that was many years ago and thousands of miles away.)

But I haven't actually eaten at the Grand Tier in probably 20 years. I remember it as incredibly convenient.

So I'm wondering - has anybody eaten there recently, and can you comment on the food?

[Todd36]

I haven't eaten there in several years. The Met now has a mini-sushi bar and while its rather expensive, its actually decent. I'll consider the Grand Tier one of these days, I have season tickets.

[slkinsey]

The Grand Tier restaurant is about what you would expect: mediocre catered food.

[sadie_siamesecat]

But the sandwiches at the Met are surprisingly good (IMHO)

[markk]

But the sandwiches at the Met are surprisingly good (IMHO)

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Yes they are, and we were just telling a friend about them while debating whether that meant that we should try the restaurant for dinner.

[ewindels]

The Grand Tier restaurant is about what you would expect: mediocre catered food.

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Mr. Kinsey is being generous: the Grand Tier aspires to mediocrity. Bear in mind that the majority of their clientele are primarily interested in two things: not being culinarily challenged in the slightest, and convenience. Both of these considerations play to the median age of said clientele, which is, to put it politely, advanced. The offerings are at best predictable: sodden crab cakes, overcooked fish, rubbery filets and chicken drenched in sauces, boiled-to-death veggies, etc. And a thoroughly undistinguished and laughably overpriced wine list.

At least this was the situation back in April when I dined there prior to "Meistersinger" with a particularly ancient cousin, who was quite happy with the results. Read that as you like. The Grand Tier used to be run by Restaurant Associates: if they are now under different management (meaning this season?), I sincerely hope that at least a few inroads will be made to the current antediluvian offerings.

That said, the Lincoln Center area now has a host of options within easy walking distance, all of which far outshine the Grand Tier. Compass (W. 70th) would be my first choice. Cafe Gray at the TW center is still offering incredible food despite the questionable setting, and I'm pretty sure I just read that they're offering an amazing prix fixe 3-course dinner (booze not included). Landmarc in the same building is more downscale but with terrific food (bistro / steakhouse) and the city's most revolutionary wine policy. Bouchon Bakery is delicious if you don't mind sitting out in the hallways of the mall... er, scuse me, vertical retail space. And Gabriel's on 60th St. is always reliable and dependable. Daniel Boulud's wine bar is supposed to be opening sometime in the very near future directly across the street from Lincoln Center and will no doubt become as tough a ticket as much of the Met's season.

[oakapple]

The Grand Tier restaurant is about what you would expect: mediocre catered food.

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Mr. Kinsey is being generous: the Grand Tier aspires to mediocrity.

All of these comments seem to be pre-makeover. Perhaps the change of management (and chef) won't matter very much, but we should at least give them the courtesy of a fair test.

Bear in mind that the majority of their clientele are primarily interested in two things: not being culinarily challenged in the slightest, and convenience.

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I loathe over-generalizations about any restaurant's clientele. For all we know, they could be dining at the Met one night, and Café Boulud the next.

[slkinsey]

Spoken like someone who doesn't quite understand this segment of the Metropolitan Opera audience. If most diners at the Grand Tier Restaurant were the type to be dining at places like Café Boulud -- which is to say, people who were genuinely interested in having a great dining experience before their evening at the opera -- they would know that there are plenty of much better choices conveniently close to the Met. Josephina and Rosa Mexicana, to name a few right off the top of my head that are steps away from Lincoln Center, are significantly better in quality. The Metropolitan Opera audience, especially in any sections priced higher than the Family Circle or Balcony, trends fairly old already. And a casual glance at the Grand Tier restaurant reveals that its clientele tends to be older still. Regardless, people who have been to the Grand Tier restaurant many times (although none this season yet) universally say that they serve boring, overcooked/underseasoned, catering-quality "old people food."

There is a mindset among a certain (primary retired) segment of the Metropolitan Opera audience that isn't easy for me to understand. For example: I can remember getting a comp ticket in the Grand Tier for a performance of Tosca. This was around 1993. The Cavaradossi was Placido Domingo, the Scarpia Sherrill Milnes -- both legendary in these roles. The Tosca was Maria Guleghina. I noticed that there were two aisle seats in the second row that remained empty for the entire first act. For the second act, they were occupied by two elderly women who stayed until the famous soprano aria Vissi d'arte and then promptly got up and left. If you've ever eaten in the grand tier restaurant, this is an example of the kind of people you will find there.

Edited October 1, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[markk]

Landmarc in the same building is more downscale but with terrific food

Not so! It was after this sorry pre-opera dinner at Landmarc that I started this thread in the first place!

[markk]

Since I asked the question in the first place, I have to say that I would never judge a restaurant by the average age of its clientele, and I don't think this is a valid barometer.

Or, I might take it to mean that if people old and wealthy enough to dine there choose to do so, it must be great. Or that they opted for the convenience, which is considerable.

I was asking if anyone has eaten there since the Patina group took over and installed a new chef.

And though it's completely off-topic, if the baritone Sherrill Milnes was in the cast of an opera that I had tickets to, I can assure you that my seats would go empty the entire evening. So if those ladies left and headed to a restaurant, it would signal to me that they had exquisite taste and that the restaurant was probably wonderful.

[Nathan]

If a place has clientele exclusively from one age group (whatever that age group may be)...it's a very bad sign.

[oakapple]

If a place has clientele exclusively from one age group (whatever that age group may be)...it's a very bad sign.

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Funny...you weren't of that opinion when you were touting New Paradigm restaurants, which (allegedly) appeal to a mostly young clientele.

[ewindels]

It gladdens my heart to see that an honest, subjective and generously offered opinion can still engender such scalding vitriol on the gullet! I was wondering where all the bitter disputation had gone to.

Markk, I'm sorry your experience at Landmarc was such a dissapointment. I should perhaps revise my previous post and change "excellent food" to "perfectly good". Those of us who've been devotees of the Tribeca property since it's opening have undoubtedly developed a biased view that I can easily understand must be puzzling to novices. There is a general admission, I think, that the food at the TW property is a notch or two below the downtown location, and the service certainly is. (In the countless trips I've made since it opened in March, only once have I had bread delivered without repeated requests, and getting one's server's attention can be challenging.) That said, the wine policy remains revolutionary, whatever you may think of the selection (and I agree that, as my own tastes in wine have progressed since the original's inception, I have found the list occassionally limited and disappointing).

So you don't go there. Someone mentioned Telepan, which I haven't been to. There's the revamped Picholine, of which I've heard raves. There's always Jean Georges / Nougatine, if you're willing to shell out.

And if the Grand Tier really is currently under new management, by all means have at it and let us know. It can only be an improvement over the previous.

[slkinsey]

I have to say that I would never judge a restaurant by the average age of its clientele, and I don't think this is a valid barometer.

This is not merely a question of age. You're talking about a clientele composed largely of opera-going individuals of a certain age, at a certain level of affluence and with priorities that incline them to have an expensive meal on the Grand Tier as opposed to any of the other locally-available choices at a similar price point. And, on top of that, you're dealing with food-delivery logistics that make it, for all intents and purposes, a catering operation.

Or, I might take it to mean that if people old and wealthy enough to dine there choose to do so, it must be great.  Or that they opted for the convenience, which is considerable.

Or, you might take the reports of people who have been there a number of times and reported it to be mediocre-to-terrible in quality to mean that the quality has historically been mediocre-to-horrible. Whatever reasons people may be giving for supposing the food is the way that it is, everyone on this thread who has been there thus far says that it's not been very good.

I was asking if anyone has eaten there since the Patina group took over and installed a new chef.

Who exactly are do you think Patina Group took over from? The name of the business is "Restaurant Associates-Patina Group." It's since been renamed as "Patina Restaurant Group" but there's not much indication that anything is different at the Grand Tier Restaurant. Indeed, this press release from Lincoln Center suggests that the makeover of the Grand Tier Restaurant isn't scheduled to happen until Fall 2009, and as far as I can tell the executive chef, Martin Burge, has been there since at least last season.

And though it's completely off-topic, if the baritone Sherrill Milnes was in the cast of an opera that I had tickets to, I can assure you that my seats would go empty the entire evening.  So if those ladies left and headed to a restaurant, it would signal to me that they had exquisite taste and that the restaurant was probably wonderful.

Milnes had a rather precipitous fall-off in the concluding years of his performing career, but could (and, in this case, did) still pull off the occasional excellent performance in a signature role as late as the early 1990s. I won't bother quibbling about individual tastes (some people never liked Luciano, after all), but one cannot dispute that Milnes was at the very top of his field in the 70s and 80s. 1993 was past his best years, but not so far into his decline that there wasn't something worth listening to. My point, however, was simply that these ladies had spend multiple hundreds of dollars on tickets to an opera featuring at the very least a legendary Cavaradossi still in his prime and a legendary Scarpia somewhat past his prime, and yet they came only to hear the aria from the not-legendary Tosca. This is not indicative of the kind of mind set that would prioritize having an outstanding meal before an opera performance over convenient, unchallenging food -- but it is indicative of a financial situation that doesn't mind paying high prices for the latter.

[ewindels]

So you don't go there.  Someone mentioned Telepan, which I haven't been to.  There's the revamped Picholine, of which I've heard raves.  There's always Jean Georges / Nougatine, if you're willing to shell out.

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And I still say Compass.

[slkinsey]

How close does someplace need to be to Lincoln Center to have a reasonably-paced after-work dinner and still make an 8PM (or occasional 7:30PM) curtain?

[Fat Guy]

I remember reading that Ed Brown had somehow become involved with the Grand Tier operation, maybe last year. Am I imagining that?

We dined there a few years ago and thought the food was above average for catering, though not as good as a real restaurant. I think the reason a lot of folks choose it is that you can pre-order and eat during intermissions. My memory is fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure we had appetizers before the opera, entrees during the first intermission and desserts during the second intermission. A lot of folks just don't like to do a whole pre- or post-opera dinner, with the very long evening that creates. And especially the older folks and others with limited mobility -- it's great for them.

[emsny]

I think Ed Brown is the exec chef for Patina in NYC.

No one has mentioned Jean Georges, or rather Nougatine. Or Cafe Luxembourg.

[oakapple]

We dined there a few years ago and thought the food was above average for catering, though not as good as a real restaurant.

That was likewise my take when I dined there.

I think the reason a lot of folks choose it is that you can pre-order and eat during intermissions. My memory is fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure we had appetizers before the opera, entrees during the first intermission and desserts during the second intermission. A lot of folks just don't like to do a whole pre- or post-opera dinner, with the very long evening that creates. And especially the older folks and others with limited mobility -- it's great for them.

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When we did it, the appetizer and entrée were served pre-opera, and only the dessert at intermission. But they may do it the other way on special occasions, or if diners request it.

[azlee]

I remember reading that Ed Brown had somehow become involved with the Grand Tier operation, maybe last year. Am I imagining that?

We dined there a few years ago and thought the food was above average for catering, though not as good as a real restaurant. I think the reason a lot of folks choose it is that you can pre-order and eat during intermissions. My memory is fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure we had appetizers before the opera, entrees during the first intermission and desserts during the second intermission. A lot of folks just don't like to do a whole pre- or post-opera dinner, with the very long evening that creates. And especially the older folks and others with limited mobility -- it's great for them.

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here's more info on ed brown's involvement:

http://www.playbillarts.com/news/article/5747.html

my understanding is that he consults very often for other restaurants in the patina group.

[markk]

Well, I've tried Jean-Georges twice before the opera, and it's really a mad-rush through your meal. And once when it was clear that we wouldn't make it, they suggested that we come back after the opera for dessert. The J-G in two stages meal

That was for a 7:30 curtain. But even for an 8 PM curtain you have to start eating the moment they open, and it's too rushed for that meal.

I also tried Telepan once, and while we may have hit it on an off night, we had, basically, airline food. And of course, the recent TWC Landmarc was a disappointment.

I was once at Fiorello's on an especially good night (the exception rather than the rule), and as it was a 7:30 curtain that we were rushing to make, we decided to miss the first act of the opera. But the norm there is not great food by any means, though the convenience factor is high.

And Fat Guy won't let me go to Nougatine.

So that was why I asked about the Grand Tier. I remember it as mediocre as everybody else does, though the convenience, combined with the thought of a new operation, tempted me.

I wonder if anybody (hint to Fat Guy) has any idea why they closed the Top of The Met restaurant? It was reasonable enough that one didn't expect great cuisine, and if you drank too much, they were able to pour you directly into your seat in the opera house at five of eight. Then many years ago, it mysteriously closed!

But I thank you (I forget who) for the Compass suggestion - that will be the next place I try for sure.

[Nathan]

If a place has clientele exclusively from one age group (whatever that age group may be)...it's a very bad sign.

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Funny...you weren't of that opinion when you were touting New Paradigm restaurants, which (allegedly) appeal to a mostly young clientele.

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"mostly" and "exclusively" aint the same thing.

[Nathan]

didn't the chef just leave Compass?

I don't like Landmarc either (good burger but you can get that in a lot of places)

[ewindels]

didn't the chef just leave Compass?

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Both nymag and the Times reported that Compass' chef, John Fraser, is opening a new place on 77th and Col. called Dovetail some time this month. It doesn't say that he's actually left or given up Compass, which if he has is going to seriously, severely depress me.

[Nathan]

Neil Annis has returned and is currently the chef at Compass.

http://www.chefdb.com/nm/4774