Up and Comers - Best Chefs I've never heard about

[GordonCooks]

Because I don't live in the Toronto area - I'm not privy to alot of the insider info that's on the street. I remember Mercer Street Grill years ago when Renee' Foote had just started - The meal was great and you just knew she would do well. I've done or do most of the standby's* regularly but would really enjoy an oppurtunity to be pleasantly surprised.

Who will be the next Susur, or MacDonald, or McEwan

So Torontonians, help me out..... what cha got ?

*ref

North 44

Scaramouche

Susur

Canoe

Centro - just ok lately

The Fifth

Rain

[Marlene]

Alas, the Mercer Street Grill is no more. However, try Reds (where Moishe's used to be in First Canadian Place.)

For steak, try either Barberians, Harbour Sixty, or if you like a LOT of garlic, try Carmen's. The Ruth's Chris in town is pretty good too.

Can't help with fish since I don't eat it.

Jump and Far Niente are good as well.

[GordonCooks]

Speaking of Mercer, How's the food at YYZ

Barberian's is good, so's the Senator.

Jump and Far Niente are ok but the food is only good, not vg imho.

I'm looking for names, not really places.............I probably dine there more than some of the natives.

[Explorer]

Well...it's tough in Toronto, culinary-wise. There's no innovation, no new places with a statement, with a message that is consistent, with signature food that is to be followed. Susur may be the exception today, but I would argue that his food is more "gutsy" than innovative-so there are hits and misses. The guy isn't shy.

Why is Toronto so so? It may not be from an absence of talent, but rather that the talent that's here decides to take another route, the easy way, as opposed to try to make a difference. For e.g. Standtlander goes up north doing his own thing; Didier Leroy does it in his own home; Greg Couillard (who had the most potential had it not been on those substances...snif snif) goes up north somewhere, Chris MacDonald caters to the conservative crowd, Jamie Kennedy packs it in and goes out of town, etc...

So we can blame them for not staying in town, sobering up and opening world class places, OR we, Torontonians could take the blame for accepting and praising mediocrity. If customers don't complain, demand more or expect more, most chefs wouldn't be motivated to go to higher levels; it's just human nature. If more of us, especially those wordly jetsetters would impose the same standards on Toronto restaurants as we do when we travel to 3* places and other Top US destinations, then- perhaps some of these chefs would get the message.

Having said that, I think that JOV Bistro's Steinberg is the most underrated chef in the city. He's not in the limelight doing pzzaz James Beard events or TV shows, but his food creations are exquisitely consistent and creative. And back west, David Hawksworth understands what it takes to be a top chef and he is working on it day by day with the utmost integrity. Desert-wise, my vote goes for Thomas Haas who is an up-and-coming desert chef that is bringing a 100% dose of European culinary standards into Canada.

[Lesley C]

Explorer, I don't understand. David Hawksworth is in Vancouver, as is Thomas Haas. Aren't we talking Toronto here? And isn't Haas doing boutique pastry work? I'm confused. Are you talking about Canada as a whole?

[jwagnerdsm]

God, I love the street meat or whatever it is they call hot dogs in Toronto.

[Explorer]

Lesley- See what wine does to you?

Yes, Hawksworth and Haas are both in Vancouver. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but was thinking of Canada as well, for a moment.

[rgruby]

There's a guy named David Chrystian (well, something along those lines - Chrystain, perhaps?) who created a bit of a buzz by doing "Canadian cuisine" - whatever that means. He first came to my attention at Cafe Societa in Little Italy, moved on to Patriot, then moved on to a hotel (the Crowne Plaza maybe), and has since moved somewhere else I recall reading in the last month or so.

Despite the fact that I'm generally aware of the guy and where he's cooked, I've never eaten his food! He is one of the last chefs in town that I can recall that had a bit of a buzz of doing something a bit different, and that's been three or four years now. toronto does seem to get buzzes going regarding the latest cuisine or style - is it Brazilian this year?, but around chefs, not reallythat I can determine.

could that be partly due to our multi-culti population that we seem to get more excited by new (to us) ethnic cuisines than to chefs? Is our relatively northern location, and therefore short growing season, also a factor?

I dunno - just throwing some stuff out for discussion.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby

[Savour Chef]

So many threads, so little time.....

Explorer, although as Leslie C pointed out, your examples are of Vancouver chefs, I think the rest of your points are right on.

Here's the thing about Canada, and, Toronto in particular: There is no star system. Period. Just as there is no star system for our music, tv, or film stars here, there is no star chef system either. You might have heard the on-going truth about the Canadian music business, where it's widely known that you have to leave Canada to get recognized or to ever make a living. But I digress....

Although we like to fashion ourselves as a cleaner, smaller, more polite version of New York, we certainly are lacking in both the restaurant and chef departments. I think the point that we just settle for average cuisine speaks volumes. I think if you did an informal survey you'd find that 9 times out of 10 Toronto restaurant patrons will bitch silently if they're not happy with their meal; they'll bitch to their friends and family etc. But they won't bitch where it counts: in the restaurant! Where's our Babbo? Where's our Le Bernadin? Where's our Daniel? Jesus, we don't even have a Rocco's here!! We've got NO buzz here whatsoever!

When was the last time there was a frenzy about a Toronto restaurant opening? That there was so much buzz that you couldn't get a reservation until months down the line? Anyone?

And Explorer also touched on a very, very interesting point: There's been a trend in the last few years for some of Toronto's top chefs to 'pack it all in' for something else. Michael Standtlander, Didier Leroy, Michael Potters, Jamie Kennedy. To do what? Private catering? Do they know something the others don't? I know that we have shifted a little more to eating in, entertaining a bit more, and with people's love of cooking in more recent years - staying home to cook.

There are many reasons for this: after Sept. 11th, there's a renewed interest for families and friends to get together more, people are increasingly spending more money on their homes/condos and they want to show it off and/or make good use of their cooking/dining areas, the cost of living is too much to enjoy a meal out with wine, tip, and tax being what it is these days.

But as for the up and comers? That is a hard one since the same names keep coming up - but I think the list below lists some people who do some wonderful things with food and in no particular order:

Chris McDonald Avalon

Massimo Capra Mistura

J.P. Challet Bouchon

Gabriele Paganelli Romagna Mia

Albino Silva/Manny Villela Chiado/Adega

Mark McEwan North 44/Bymark

Owen Steinberg JOV

Lynn Crawford Truffles

Marc Thuet The Fifth

Claudio Aprile Sen5es

Hiro Yoshida Hiro Sushi

Lino Collevecchio Via Allegro

G.Q. Pan Edo

Hiro Yoshida Hiro Sushi

But then when our most famous/powerful restauranteurs are Michael Bonacini and Peter Oliver.....I think we've got a problem. Not to take anything away from those two fine gentlemen, but really, they could be doing so much more for the Toronto restaurant scene.

[Lesley C]

Savour chef, I don't think we mean the same thing by the expression up and comers.

Challet has been on the scene for ages, as have Thuet, McDonald, and McEwan. I'm talking about young chefs, under 40, who are making waves or opening restaurants and have a distinct style. I can name close to a dozen right now in Montreal, and none of them are doing Japanese or Italian food. Here the young chefs are dominating the scene. Does anyone on that list fit that description? I remember an article in the Globe years ago saying Ned Bell would be the next great one. What happened?

And what about young chef/owners?

[GordonCooks]

I have a Chef Buddy that really likes Winlai Wong of Monsoon

[freddychef]

Interesting foray into `who is who` these days and I find myself a little bemused at what is, for the most part, the debate on what is going on in Canada in the culinary world. While the Web has afforded so many ventures into culinary endeavours I find it a bit saturated with the cultural morass that abounds in other mainstream, or should I dare say conservative approaches to food and culture.

For many of us in the field so to speak it is definiltely not all about a few people in the hub towns of the Canadain culinary world. Quite often this reliance on status and elitism overlooks the reality of the grunt line. There are many great cooks out there working long, hard days with little reward , and you never hear tell of them in the standard forms of our mainstream. On the net I suggets we start a topic about searching out those who work hard in some small town; the person who makes your BLT just the way you like it; the guy that stays open late so that you can get that bowl of hot and sour.

Surely there is more to food and culture out ther don't ya think?

So let me begin. One time I was driving along a back road in rural Nova Scotia. I had been out hiking all day and looked forward to locating a place to eat. Of course we all know about the traditional fare offered along the way--what passes as regional food that the locals eat--fish and chips, hot turkey sandwiches, sides of slaw, fries, etc.

I eventually stopped at a small diner, can't remember the name but I perused the menu and of course within minutes I realized what to expect. But the thing was I ordered a bowl of homemade turkey soup. Now that may not seem like much and maybe do to my run down state I was a little hungry but it WAS that moment when I sipped it that I realized how truly humbling food can be. The taste exploded in my mouth- memories of home flaoted back, many that had laid dormant. A truly great dining experience.

I understand that for most, culinary endeavours are about living in big cities, being a part of the larger picture but for many of us it's about talking to the local farmer about her burgundy beans. Checking with your friend about when you want to get another lamb. Maybe spending 2 days in Carbonear picking blues,herts, black currants, and wild raspberries.

Food is exploratory, all the time. freddychef

[GordonCooks]

I pretty much agree with what your saying. A great meal isn't always dependent on price.

[Explorer]

Speaking of excitment, the next biggest thing here in toronto since the opening of Bymark almost a year ago (big yawn) will probably be "Trattoria Vaticano". Chef Felice Vacca, of Sotto Sotto is going solo and opening on Bellair, between Cumberland and Yorkville, in the spot where Boa used to be. A big picture of his is on the outside saying "Opening as soon as possible". Renovations inside will probably mean an opening toward the end of Sept. I am guessing Roman inspired food, another celebrity hang-out, and a spot to be seen. I understand he'll be open for lunch too. Felice is also working on a new book "Felice & friends" (i.e. his celebrity friends), and is scheduled for more FoodTV.ca appearances. So, let's see if this one can stir up the pot a little in the big sleepy town...

[Savour Chef]

Savour chef, I don't think we mean the same thing by the expression up and comers.

Challet has been on the scene for ages, as have Thuet, McDonald, and McEwan. I'm talking about young chefs, under 40, who are making waves or opening restaurants and have a distinct style. I can name close to a dozen right now in Montreal, and none of them are doing Japanese or Italian food. Here the young chefs are dominating the scene. Does anyone on that list fit that description?  I remember an article in the Globe years ago saying Ned Bell would be the next great one. What happened?

And what about young chef/owners?

That's just what I was trying to illustrate. There ARE no new, exciting up and comers that you haven't heard about......they are the same old names you've already heard about. My entire post was illustrative of that point, and how not only do we not have any real exciting, innovative up and comers with any buzz around them, but we also have a very unexciting, un-buzzworthy restaurant scene going on here in Toronto.

Having said that, I could name several guys/girls who work in kitchens around town that do some kick-ass work behind-the-scenes that you'll a) never ever hear about and b) never see open their own restaurant because of the cost of doing so.

Either way, we're in a lose-lose situation. Everyone on here who's commented thus far has a pretty good grasp of what's going on. Rents are high, those few exciting chefs that we do have usually jump ship and go onto some new venture, and then eventually come back and do the restaurant thing again. It's a crazy cycle, but we are the ones accepting it.

P.S. As per your post, are Japanese and Italian food a bad thing?

[Savour Chef]

Speaking of excitment, the next biggest thing here in toronto since the opening of Bymark almost a year ago (big yawn) will probably be "Trattoria Vaticano". Chef Felice Vacca, of Sotto Sotto is going solo and opening on Bellair, between Cumberland and Yorkville, in the spot where Boa used to be. A big picture of his is on the outside saying "Opening as soon as possible". Renovations inside will probably mean an opening toward the end of Sept. I am guessing Roman inspired food, another celebrity hang-out, and a spot to be seen. I understand he'll be open for lunch too. Felice is also working on a new book "Felice & friends" (i.e. his celebrity friends), and is scheduled for more FoodTV.ca appearances. So, let's see if this one can stir up the pot a little in the big sleepy town...

Is it really?

Other than hearing that he's opening that restaurant, I don't really hear any anticipation around it. I love Felice's cooking, his personality, and his ambitions, but if we're honest about it, perfectly grilling a fish and putting some lemon and olive oil on it doesn't really mean that he's an amazing chef. (I've actually kidded him about this before).

But then again, he's got the celebrity buzz around Sotto and most likely this new place (too bad he wasn't open for Film Fest!) so as long as things are fresh and discreet, it's all good.

[Explorer]

How about Claudio Aprile who is now at Senses? (he was previoulsy at Zoom i believe when it first opened).

And what happened to Christian who was at Patriot?

Also, there was another chef I can't remember his name; he was at Senses on Bloor about 2 years ago; he had trained with Nobu. Does anyone know where he is now?

[Lesley C]

As per your post, are Japanese and Italian food a bad thing?

No no no!!! It's just that they usually follow an established style and it's rare to find a chef that breaks out of that genre.

Give me a River Cafe or Nobu any day. But that rarely happens. Certainly here in Montreal, it's usually same old, same old...

[vox]

the only cook whom i remember training with nobu who worked at sen5es 2 years ago was a guy named kevin.

(i worked at sen5es when he was there briefly).

i think the problem with the lack of up and coming chefs in toronto is because toronto as a food city, is notoriously conservative. that's why mcewan has such a winning formula in bymark and at north 44. people want to pay exorbitant prices for what amounts to your basic grilled meat/fish, plus some kind of potato starch and standard veg combo.

let's face it people...we're not adventurous enough to really break new ground, foodwise.

[Oreganought]

the only cook whom i remember training with nobu who worked at sen5es 2 years ago was a guy named kevin.

(i worked at sen5es when he was there briefly).

i think the problem with the lack of up and coming chefs in toronto is because toronto as a food city, is notoriously conservative.  that's why mcewan has such a winning formula in bymark and at north 44.  people want to pay exorbitant prices for what amounts to your basic grilled meat/fish, plus some kind of potato starch and standard veg combo.

let's face it people...we're not adventurous enough to really break new ground, foodwise.

Conservative,I agree,not to mention notoriously cheap.

[Stalder]

The measure of a great chef should not be his ability to be outrageous but his ability to prepare food well.

One of France's top chefs once said in an interview he hires chefs for his resaurant based on them preparing him a plain omelette, the reasoning being if you can make a simple dish perefectly then complicated dishes will be easy.

Elvis Drennan of David's Bistro in London Ontario is a young chef who is doing an excellent job.

He has worked his way from dishwasher to chef in a mid price bistro in a notoriously conservative city.

He cooks bistro food and does it to perfection.

Every detail of the execution is spot on every time I eat there.

Chef's in these restaurants aren't relying on sexy ingredients to take the load off of them and as such the spotlight is much more on the basics of cooking.

Just my opinion but maybe you are looking in the wrong places for the best young chef's.

I know I had flank steak the other night that was AWESOME and that is no easy task.

[chefworm]

heres some answers to a few questions from previous posts in this thread:

david chrystian spent a few months as executive chef of the crowne plaza toronto centre after accolade closed, and now he has left to head up the kitchen at the drake, a new boutique hotel opening on queen west in november? 2003. i kow this because i worked with him at accolade, and will be joining him at the drake {www.thedrakehotel.ca}.

ned bell, who was supposed to be an up and comer, bounced from toronto to niagra, to somewhere out west. anyone that has seen him on cook like a chef will be able to see that while he is on tv, he isn't even near the same calibre as susur, chris mcdonald, dedier leroy, etc.......

hope this helps,

M@

[malcolmjolley]

(Bit of a segue way, but chefworm’s post reminded me…)

Why do all the presenters on Cook Like a Chef speak the same way? I find the show intensely irritating.

Am I the only one who's noticed this?

[mhkhung]

I can't believe no one has talked about "Starfish" in this board..

Starfish is definitely the best place in Toronto right now for a relax, enjoyable dinner, with the one of the best food you can have in Toronto.. Food alone may not be as fine as Avalon or Susar, but overall experience is definitely better. I would go to Susar or Avalon once a year but went to Starfish 4 times.. (a meal costs about the same $$$$).

It's owned by Patrick McMurray (ex-Rodney's), world champion oyster shucker.. so of course with a wide selection of oysters.

And not only that, have you ever been to an oyster house with decent food? This is the place with great great food.. close to the Avalon standard. Of course, they have chef Martha Wright (ex-Avalon). You get the idea? Sink in a dozen or two oysters.. and you still can't miss the appetizer and main.. (Well, dessert could be improved..)

Been there 4 times over the past year.. never disappoints.. The first time I was there alone.. I had 2 dozen oysters, grilled sardine, clear mushroom soup, a fish main that reminds me so much of Avalon, then more oysters.. Another time taking a group of friends of 10.. they couldn't stop eating..

Oh my..

- M

[pho]

Starfish is not on the same level as Susur or Avalon. Not even close.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fine place, but it isn't fine dining. It's casual, good, fresh food. I've been many times. In fact, I've met Patrick numerous times.

I'd agree with Aprile being the up-and-comer in Toronto right now.