Karu Restaurant & Y

[chefAZ]

Richard! good to hear that you will be eating there. I'm sure you'll have a good time....Like anne says please let us know your thoughts.

[robyn]

I was in Miami at the time of that review, and the months prior to the Karu opening.

I couldn't believe the amount of negative "buzz" surrounding such an ambitious effort. This is a serious multi million dollar fine dining restaurant, and so many people just wanted it to fail so bad. It was disgusting, and the review carried that same tone.

When Ducasse and WD-50 opened I remember there were discussions pertaining to the politics of those reviews. That was arguable.

There is no doubt in my mind the Karu & Y review was political and it reveals a depressing element of the Miami dining and social scene.

The review was intimidating.

The problem is, if you don't know the history, and read that review , than you aren't going there for dinner. And then your off for a 2 pound lobster tail, bad service, and unethical pricing at so many well reviewed Miami spots.

Irresponsibility by the food critic is hitting the nail square on the head. Screw the stars, new restaurants take time, but at least acknowledge the effort, passion, and money that went into that place and what they are trying to do for the community.

I'll be there Saturday night w/o body guard or entourage, and I hope they are busy.

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What are the politics you're talking about (I assume it's "food politics" and not the chef supporting Castro or anything like that )? I assume that once you explain it - it will be obvious why it's depressing.

I just could never understand why the Miami restaurant scene simply hasn't improved all that much in the last 20 years or so. There are more people - with more money - more young people - and more tourists. So what's the problem?

Heck - we don't have that many good restaurants in Jacksonville (although we have a lot more than we used to) - but we don't try to kill them off at inception. We don't really have anyone here who can reasonably be called a "food critic" (although there are food columns in local publications). What they really are is "cheerleaders". Anything new is good - go out and try it. It may be a provincial attitude - but at least it encourages people to get out and try all the new places - good - bad and indifferent. And FWIW Ecruz - although we don't have a large number of really good restaurants - the ones we do have might surprise you in terms of their sophistication (BTW - we're going big time non-provincial this year - Louis Vuitton is opening a store ).

Also Ecruz - As for my comments about the Design District - I hope it does fine - sometime before I die! I wish it no ill will. I like to see nice areas develop in Miami and every other part of Florida. I've lived here in Florida for about 35 years now - and I like the place. It just seems like there's always a "Renaissance" there at the end of every Florida real estate boom - which fizzles when the boom busts. Coconut Grove is an even sadder case. It was a "hippy" place when I first moved there in 1971. Then it got developed during the 80's. Reached its zenith when - late 80's - early 90's? Last time we were there it was a sad sight to behold. People told us things fizzled because rents got so high that many places closed. I don't know whether or not this is true. So if the Grove can't make it - I wonder how the Design District is going to make it. BTW - last time I ate at the Design District a couple of years ago - we went to a good Ethiopian restaurant. Can't remember the name. How is it doing? Robyn

[annecros]

Also Ecruz - As for my comments about the Design District - I hope it does fine - sometime before I die!  I wish it no ill will.  I like to see nice areas develop in Miami and every other part of Florida.  I've lived here in Florida for about 35 years now - and I like the place.  It just seems like there's always a "Renaissance" there at the end of every Florida real estate boom - which fizzles when the boom busts.  Coconut Grove is an even sadder case.  It was a "hippy" place when I first moved there in 1971.  Then it got developed during the 80's.  Reached its zenith when - late 80's - early 90's?  Last time we were there it was a sad sight to behold.  People told us things fizzled because rents got so high that many places closed.  I don't know whether or not this is true.  So if the Grove can't make it - I wonder how the Design District is going to make it.  BTW - last time I ate at the Design District a couple of years ago - we went to a good Ethiopian restaurant.  Can't remember the name.  How is it doing?  Robyn

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What happened to Coconut Grove is a shame. But honestly, the same thing happened to the Keys for a time, and now they are back with new and exciting places. Even some of the older places are doing new and exciting things.

There is some amazing food in the Jacksonville area, and St. Augustine can't be beat for bang for the buck. There are some places in the panhandle that are wonderful, Central Florida has its very own cuisine, and the west coast is closer to the real food that the original settlers of Florida prepared and thrived on.

Oh, and when I was standing in line at Sage Bagel the other day, a guy was behind me buying two dozen and was on his way to Boston, driving. A lot of good stuff going on, it just needs to be "found" I think.

[robyn]

robyn, did you step on some gum in the Design District or something?  You're bashing absolutely everything positive that's being said yet everything negative (e.g. hopscotching over condomes) you're relishing.

Have I been to artwalks in the summer, yes, both in the Design District, the Gables and Wynwood.

The good places have left the Design District?  Ligne Roset just moved there from the Gables (not to DCOTA).  Plus, unlike DCOTA, there's galleries in the district and everything is accessible to the public, not just the trade.  Plus the district now has the potential to become a nightime destination if places like Michael's succeed (which it seems to be doing).  Plus in the same area you've got Ammendment XXI and A.  They're not in the best neighborhood but give me a break.

And in defense of the ridiculing of the Herald's critic, Victoria Pesce-Elliott is awful.  She's constantly making grammatical and factual errors.  She's in love with the mediocre and considers tofu exotic.  She should be writing the food column for Jacksonville or some other provincial place.

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OK - let's try to analyze this (I'm serious). Who are the potential clients for places in the Design District? The design places are one thing (you go there to buy stuff for your house - and they usually close at 5 pm). There have always been a couple of bar type places that cater to shoppers and workers for drinks/bar food after work (although they've changed over the years). As for the galleries - they are generally open only until 5 pm too - except for art walk nights (which everyone has everywhere - even here in Jacksonville). So they won't attract a dinner crowd.

So who's going to eat dinner at an expensive restaurant in the Design District? What's the age group? Is that person a tourist - or a local resident? Will people come from the Beach - Brickell - the Grove - the Gables? I doubt they will come from Aventura or Pinecrest (too far). When my husband and I worked downtown -we'd be potential clients (have a few drinks after a normal late night at the office - and then go to dinner).

How many people are like us? If there are enough - ok - if not enough - a place can't make it - unless it becomes a destination restaurant (and that takes more time than most places have operating capital).

As for ugly questionable neighborhoods - Miami (and other parts of Florida) have their share - and that usually will not deter us from dining anywhere (unless the neighborhood is really dangerous). But also note that when I lived in Miami - my jewelry lived in my safe deposit box. As for other expensive looking stuff - forget it. There are more than a few people in Florida whose main reason to dine out is to show off their stuff. And this is definitely not the right kind of neighborhood to do that.

Clubs are a totally different thing. I am much too old for them now - but I used to go to different ones in Miami - and I know that we have dozens of them in Jacksonville that cater mostly to younger people with all different kinds of tastes (everything from tats to GLBT to office workers to young conservative Christians who don't drink). I assume Miami is the same. The clubs are destination places for the clients they are trying to attract. They are frequently located in kind of crummy areas of the city where no one is around to complain about noise at 1 am - or no one listens to the people who live in those areas when they do complain. But I don't think these clubs do anything to attract middle of the road or finer dining.

I think the thing that most of the best restaurants in Jacksonville have in common is that even if they aren't on the best streets in the best neighborhoods - they are close to relatively large numbers of upper middle class people who do live in nice neighborhoods and who eat out a lot. The 5-10 minute drive to dinner. And these restaurants do great - because there are more people in the area who want to eat good food than there are good restaurants. Location - location - location.

Since Blais is here - I can mention one of his hometown restaurants - Bacchanalia - near midtown Atlanta. We had a fine dinner there in January. It is "on the other side of the tracks" in a converted warehouse kind of place (which also has some design stores). Certainly wouldn't want to stroll around the area at night. But - at the beginning - it had the advantage of being close to a reasonably large number of people who like eating at this kind of place. Perhaps not so many in midtown (because there wasn't much in midtown then - but there was a Four Seasons a few miles away - and that is always a good source of business). And there was Buckhead - and it used to be relatively easy to get there from Buckhead (traffic has really become awful in recent years). And now it is a destination restaurant. So even people from Jacksonville go there . But it takes a while to get from "here" to "there".

A restaurant needs a critical mass of diners to survive. So the ultimate question is - how do you fill your restaurant (especially if you're not relying on frozen food you bought at Costco to feed people - you have to throw away spoiled food but not frozen food).

Just as a thought off the top of my head - if this restaurant Karu has any brains - it ought to cultivate the concierge staffs at the Four Seasons and the MO on Brickell. Also the RC in Coconut Grove. Invite them to dinner. Show off its stuff. If it's good - it can get a lot of business from these hotels.

Finally - that is interesting about Ligne Roset moving. Wonder if they had problems with people finding parking spaces in the old Gables location (that area is the only place I have had to parallel park in the last 10 years!)? And it's not the kind of place that would be in a "to-the-trade" location like DCOTA (e.g., its showroom in Atlanta is in mid-town - next to another really nice design store and across the street from a great kitchen place). BTW - if you ever have any questions about buying design stuff - PM or email me (I may not be a world class eater but I am a world class shopper ). Robyn

[annecros]

I think the City Place/Clematis Street area in West Palm Beach is an outstanding model of how to revive and revitalize a less than desirable area.

Click here for City Place Information

When I first moved to Palm Beach County it was a horrible, horrible area. It's had fits and starts, but ultimately it worked.

It can be done.

[Ssams]

I would like to share my experience for New Years at Karu and Y.

New Years Eve 600$ per couple what a rip off.... The food is horrible how they can charge this prices if they don't deliver. The steak was horrible, bland and flavorless. If this is what you call wgyu please I rather have a piece of choice steak. The snapper, again flavorless and overcooked the skin was not even crispy. If you serve a fish with skin the least I expect is to be nice and crunchy. Desserts abdominal painful, not even edible..Ok I am being a little critical but when you pay money, you expect first class. Don’t waste your time and money; go to the real restaurants like Michaels or Brosia

http://miami.citysearch.com/profile/4...

You be the Judge! if you have similar experience share your comments.

[Miami Danny]

FYI-This restaurant is closed, but the bars/clubs will remain open.

[chefAZ]

I guess everyone in miami needs to find a new restaurant to bash....

[Miami Danny]

I guess everyone in miami needs to find a new restaurant to bash....

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To be honest, if you read the posts here, they are almost all from people who do not live in Miami. Sadly, it seeems that people take their prejudices with them when they go (or maybe not sadly); or that they think somehow Miami is frozen in time (and, yes, South Beach WAS a crime-ridden slum just 25 years ago. There are still some questionable blocks). The area where Karu & Y was/is, is an area where there are many clubs (including this one, which is gorgeous), including Space, PS 14, Pawn Shop, White Room, etc., with thousands of people flocking to them. Stoli just did a monthlong Stoli Hotel nearby, that was a huge hit. The Performing Arts Center is just a few blocks away, but of course you can't walk from the PAC to some of the clubs, including Karu & Y, there's still some empty, dangerous lots between the two addresses. But quite frankly, people don't walk much here anyway, other than on the beach. I'm sad that I didn't get to try Chef Alberto Cabrera's food here, but I'm sure he'll turn up somewhere else.

The fact is that the local food establishment hates anything new, and if you're not serving Italian, or a super-popular celebrity chef, you're going to have a hard time making it. I think there are chefs who are going to have to make it in spite of the critics.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Miami Danny (log)

[robyn]

Seems like a lot of my concerns about the location were on target (can't speak about the food - since I never dined there). If anything - I suspect the area is in worse shape this year than last due to the condo crash. I'll find out next month (going to Miami for a short trip - will spend at least a few hours in the design district).

BTW - I am not here to bash Miami - but to find decent places to eat when I visit. Anything reasonably new worth considering that is somewhere near the Four Seasons on Brickell (my brother lives on the beach - so I'll let him pick the restaurant he likes there the night we dine with him)? Michael's Genuine sounds interesting. The new Italian place in Merrick place does not. Robyn

[drosendorf]

I guess everyone in miami needs to find a new restaurant to bash....

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To be honest, if you read the posts here, they are almost all from people who do not live in Miami.

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Danny - I know more than a couple locals who went to Karu & Y - folks who travel to Spain and love this kind of food when done right - and the universal consensus was that the food sucked ass and was preposterously overpriced.

There have been plenty of examples of Miami restaurants trying "something new" and failing for lack of support - I don't think that's the story here.

[drosendorf]

Anything reasonably new worth considering that is somewhere near the Four Seasons on Brickell (my brother lives on the beach - so I'll let him pick the restaurant he likes there the night we dine with him)?  Michael's Genuine sounds interesting.  The new Italian place in Merrick place does not.  Robyn

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Michael's Genuine Food & Drink gets my vote for best meal in town these days. Don't know of a new Italian in Merrick Place - are you thinking of Il Gabbiano (which is downtown)?

[robyn]

It was the Village of Merrick Park (got the name wrong) - and the place is called Villagio.

Michael's Genuine is a possible for lunch or dinner one day.

What do you think of Oceanaire for a simple grilled fish one night (my husband and I like to eat grilled fish - and the place is near the hotel)? I realize it's a chain - but Legal Seafoods is a chain too - and we enjoy the grilled fish there. Robyn