pim

I used to know the Thai restaurant scene there extremely well. Most of them were opened by people who had money to invest, who perhaps didn't particularly care about food. All they had to do was put an ad on a Thai newspaper and instantly they would find a cook. Most Thai cooks in the area rotate around restaurants in this manner. That is the reason why Thai food in LA taste pretty much the same (overly sweet) way everywhere. In contrast, Jitlada's owner is the head cook. That's why I doubt that the food changed in the years that I lived in the LA area. I remember Krueng Tedd to be peculiarly more concerned with the entertainment, cute Thai girls belching out pop tunes from the 80's, than the food. I've been to Palm Thai a few times, and consider the Thai Elvis just another gimmick to attract patrons and divert the attention away from the actual food. Renu Nakorn on the other hand, enjoys a pretty good reputation, especially on Southern dishes. I haven't been there in years so I couldn't really give any comment though. I would go to Sanam Luang if I were in the mood for street food/quick noodle dishes, and to Jitlada if I were in the mood for serious Thai cuisine.

I totally disagree with you, respectively that is. I am Thai, and Jitlada is known among Thais as one of the best kitchen in town. The owner is absolutely serious about food and keeping it as honest and authentic as possible. Perhaps you've just never tried anything on their Thai menu. They excel at more complicate dishes that I wouldn't even think of ordering somewhere else. Not noodle soups and pad thai, which are really considered snacks or lunch food, but serious dinner dishes, like Namprik relishes and complex salads like crispy catfish (Yum Pla Dook Foo). The green curry and "dragon's eggs" is absolutely delicious, and not on the English menu. The dragon eggs are made of minced fish and salted egg yolks. Or try a Gang Som, a complex coconut-free curry with shrimps and vegetables, which is sour, spicy and delicious.

The Honey Crisp guys are up here in SF too. I've got some amazing peaches from them--incluidng this most unbelievably sweet white peaches a few weeks ago.

Zuni burger is definitely a classic. I also love burgers at Home in the Castro. Nieman Ranch beef, juicy tomatoes, a bun that doesn't crumble in your hands, and great shoe-string fries.

Ferdlisky is right on---Guelaguetza is definitely an undiscovered gem. I have never had mole like theirs. Well at least in this country. I see no one has recommended Thai yet. LA is the best place in the US to find GREAT Thai food. I love Jitlada, on Sunset in Hollywood. Here's the address: 5233 1/2 Sunset Blvd. Tel. (323) 667-9809. I would make a point of going there even if it's out of your way. The food is amazing. Also, try to order from the Thai page on the back side of the front cover of the menu. Insist that someone translate the items for you, and order at least a few things from there. If you are in the mood for more street food type or noodle dishes, I would go to Sanamluang Cafe, at 5170 Hollywood Blvd, also in Hollywood. The only thing I miss about living in the LA area is the Thai food--oh and Guelaguetza's mole.

I think by "unrefined" they were refering to what we called Pla Ra, not Nam Pla (Fish Sauce). Pla Ra is what you get when you mix small fish with lots and lots of salt and let them rot. The resulting product looks a bit muddy, with broken pieces of fish in it. Pla Ra is used in North-eastern food. Bangkokians look down our noses at it as positively stinky peasant food. :-) I have grown to like a couple of dishes made with Pla Ra, but they are cooked and dressed up so much they are mostly unrecognizable from the original form. I think it's a case of "you can take a girl out of Bangkok, but....) Pardon my ignorance. :-) Nam Pla is made in much the same way, except that it is refined before bottling. Of course my bias is for Thai Fish Sauce. I use Tiparos, becuase that's what my family used when I was growing up. You just don't change your fish sauce brand---that would be downright sacrilegious!

Interesting. I grew up in Thailand and I love Satays. You can find them pretty much anywhere. In fact I just wrote a post on the Bangkok Street Food thread on how to find the famous Sampeng market Satay vendor, http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...T&f=21&t=23812& I am biased, of course, but I love the Thai version of Satay more than a Malaysian version. In Thailand, the satays are served with Peanut Sauce and a condiment of lightly pickled cucumbers, shallots, cilantro and red chilli (Prik Chi Fah). It is also often accompanied by a few slices of toasted white bread---they go so well with the peanut sauce, a Thai version of PB sandwich you could say. :-) I would suggest using Masaman Curry paste rather than a simple red curry paste to be the base for your sauce. The sauce is *supposed* to separate, with a beautiful red oil floating over the peanut sauce. You just stir it a little with the Satay while dipping into it. When I make mine I use the freshly grounded peanuts you get at places like Wholefoods. That way you get the creamy and crunch without added sugar. I use palm sugar to sweeten it a bit later. The resulting sauce shouldn't be cloyingly sweet, rather should have a bite of spiciness to it.

Wow this is tough. I grew up in Bangkok, go back still every couple of year or so, and know the city very well---but explaining how to find a particular street food stand, not that's tough. I know how to get there, but not really in a way that I could describe online here. I think recommending by area is probably a good way to do it. I grew up in the Sukumvit area, so I can defnitely second the rec. for Sor Thonglor (Sukumvit 55), I just wanted to add that the best Sticky Rice/Mango vendor (in this side of town that is) has a shop at the front of the Soi. I couldn't remember the name, but if you are turning into the Soi from Sukumvit Road, the shop is on the left hand side, just a few doors down from Sukumvit main road. They also sell all kinds of fresh fruits, which are a bit higher price than the rest in the area, but usually of better quality as well. That shop is where our cook still shops today. Across Sukhumvit main road is Soi 38. At the beginning of the Soi is a famous Jok (Rice porridge) shop. They only sell at night, and stay open very late. That's where we used to stop for a midnight snack after a night out on the town before we got home. A nice steamy bowl of Jok and you will sleep like a baby. :-) Gai Yang Soi Polo is definitely a great place to go. They have really great Somtum, Gai Yang (grilled chicken), Neau Namtok (Beef Salad), well pretty much everything is great. My family goes to the Royal Bangkok Polo Club in that same Soi, so I used to pick up food from there to eat at the club all the time. Soi Polo is off of Wireless road, but just get into a taxi and tell him to take you to Soi Polo, the shop is on your left as you enter the Soi. You can't miss it. There are a few other Gai Yang places where you can get great somtum. I recommend you go to these restaurant type places rather than a stall, because cleanliness (well or the lack thereof) could be a serious problem---it's not worth it to get sick on a bad somtum as it will stop you from enjoying other delicious foods on your trip! Gai Yang Jitlada, near Jitlada palace is another great place for Gai Yang and Somtum type food. They have been around for as long as I remember. It is somewhere very near to Jitlada palace--which is not the Grand Palce, but the modern palace in which the King actually resides. I couldn't tell you exactly how to get there, but I bet any taxi or your hotel concierge could get you there. Oh, and talk about the Grand Palace. If you're going there for sightseeing, walk toward the river, and just before you get to the river you will see a market on your left. There are plenty of yummy things there too. The place is called Ta Prachan market. I can't tell you a specific place to go, but follow your nose to whatever smell best! Another place I can recommend is the SamPeng market, in the China Town area. There is a great Satay vendor there. The place is more like a dungeon than a restaurant, but it has the best Satay you could find in my opinion. I can't tell you exactly where it is, too difficult, but I have a trcik I could suggest. Basically, get yourself in a taxi and tell him to take you to the SamPeng, then find yourself a highschool or college age kid and ask him/her to show you where the famous SamPeng Satay vendor is. Most school/college kids in Thailand can speak decent English, and are more than willing to practice and be helpful. I bet you someone will walk you all the way to the vendor. :-)

Oops I missed the most critical information in that post. Yes, the Suncrests I got were from Frog Hollow. I my earilier posts, I argued that Frog Hollow's peaches were not *consistently* better than those from the other farmers at the market. I still stand by that argument. But I also feel obligated now to report on the superb lot I found last weekend at the SF farmer's market. :-) I made peach galette on Sunday for a small dinner with friends, and I have to say they baked beautifully too. If you've never tried the Suncrest, make a point of looking for them next time you shop. They have the most gorgeous red/orange flesh, and are oh so tasty.

Thanks for all the tips. I only bake at home in small quantity. I'd love to be a profressional patissiere, but I don't think I have the skills and, more importantly, the patience. :-) As for the provenance of the recipes, a friend who inherited them, but was unable to understand them on her own. So we came to a deal that was good for both of us, I would do the work of translation, and would get a copy for myself. :-)

You're welcome. :-) Do try the Lemon Basil if you could find them. They will make a difference. Thanks Jinmyo for the pointer. I will update the information on the Ethnic Cuisine section as soon as I get them from the ohter instructors. Except that some of those recipes are so complex and take too many steps to really be viable for a one serving dish. A lot of the "Miang" or even "Yum" recipes for example, they are never supposed to be made for one person. They are more like something one'd make when one has guests over for the afternoon. This discussion has really given me some great ideas about lesson planning. I think doing something that we've done here, such as giving a base recipe for a stir fry then adding a variation on the theme would make it easier for people who are not wholly familiar with Thai cuisine. And perhaps we will also need a section on Potentially Dangerous Ingredients, to prevent a scenario akin to your root canal. :-)

Yes, shrimp will work just fine. I've done it with Tofu as well, since one of my dearest friends is a vegetarian. For the Tofu version, I use Chinese fried tofu that you can buy from most Asian markets. They are normally in square or triangle pieces in plastic bags. Just buy the freshest looking ones. If you are so inspired, you can quick fry them again before cooking, it's not neccesary. I usually slice them thin and use in place of chicken. You need to add the tofu, onions, and bell peppers at the same time, as the tofu do not need very long to cook, and you want to end up with slightly crunchy onions and bell peppers, not raw. I've used shrimp as well. For the shrimp version I would use lemon basil if you could find them. The subtle tang of the Lemon Basil (Bai Mang-Luck in Thai) goes very well with seafood. As for pictures of ingredients, we plan to add pictures of commonly used ingredients in the class. I will look through my library and let you know if I found anything useful. I have the Thompson book as well. I bought it sort of out of curiousity. I have to say I find it quite impressive, though I have to say the recipes in there must be difficult for non-Thais to work with. Also, I find giving recipes for 1 serving a little tedious. Though it is true that many dishes are prepared one at a time, but the ingredients are usually prepared mise en place for multiple servings. Some of the recipes are a little different from what I know. For example, the recipe for Chilli Paste asks for Galangal--which is not in my grandmother's famous recipe, nor in others I know of. There is such a thing as Chilli Paste with Galangal, but it is not used in the same way that he proposed, and definitely is not called Nam-prik Pao.

I bought a flat of Suncrest on Saturday at the Ferry Plaza market. Since they were in an insulated box and untouched by indiscriminate hands, let me tell you, they were heavenly!

I definitely agree with you. Most people make the mistake of brewing tea longer to get a darker brew---which will produce tannin galore! Instead, you should brew more tea in proportion water, but never brew full leave tea longer than 5 mins. In fact, I would suggest 3 minutes or less if you use teabags, which contain Fanning grade teas.

Oops, looks like I mis-spelled TPT in the topic title. Sorry about that. coordinator's note -- We fixed it.

Luck has brought me a stack of old French patisserie recipes--written in French in short-hand! It took me a long while, and a lot of effort to decode all the abbreviations. Many of these recipes ask for TPT, tant pour tant, which I finally figured out to be, literally, half and half (by weight) finely ground almond flour and icing sugar. I have made it myself a few times, but find the process quite tedious. Does anyone know a source for it in the US? I am in the Bay Area, so local source would be great, but I am game for mail order as well. thanks, Pim

I was once stuck on a Greek Island without any basil. Apparently basilico (as they call it there) were not sold at markets, as everyone had them in the backyard. My Athenian friends, however, had none at their weekend house, so I was forced to find an alternative. I ended up using fresh thyme, which grew like weeds everywhere. The result turned out quite yummy, and is now my favorite type of bread salad. Here's how you can try it.... You will need really ripe tomatoes (cut into big chunks), garlic, calamata olives, onion(sliced), thyme, and best-quality Feta (optional). Oh yes, and day old bread. Take a couple thick slices of day old bread, cut a clove of garlic in halves and rub the bread all over with them. Discard the garlic. Tear the bread into big chunks, crust and all, and throw them into a large bowl. Throw in the tomatoes, and use both hands to mix them together forcefully, to allow the tomato juices to moisten the bread. Then add the rest of the ingredients except the feta chesse. Throw in the leaves from one or two sprigs of thyme, as well as a couple small sprigs in tact for decoration. You could make the red wine vinegar first then add it to the salad (never use mustard in this dressing), but I don't. I just add the vinegar and salt and give it a toss, then olive oil, a final toss, then top with crumbled feta. I sometimes do it without the Feta. If you use it, make sure it is the best quality you could find. There's nothing worse than poorly made Feta to ruin an otherwise perfectly good dish, so when in doubt, leave it out! A bite of this sald instantly transports me back to the Greek sunshine. enjoy, Pim

Might I suggest our upcoming eGullet Culinary Institute Ethnic Cuisine classes? For Asian cuisines we will be covering Thai, Japanese, Indian, and perhaps (if we could find an instructor), Chinese as well. As a teaser I will give you a very easy Thai recipe to start with, that will definitely be a success. It is basically chicken stir-fried in chilli paste with garlic, onion, bell peppers and Thai basil. It is spicy, fragrant and unbelieveably easy to make. It is also unabashedly Thai, not a Thai-ed up dish that you'd never find in authentic Thai cuisine. And by unabashedly Thai I also meant you'd better make sure your date or other half eat it with you or he/she will be sorry. :-) Serve it with Jasmine rice and you have a meal in less than 15 minutes. Gai pad Nam-prik Pao (Chicken sitr-fried in Chilli Paste) Ingredients 1-2 tbsp oil (any neutral tasting oil suitable for high temperature cooking will do) two (small) cloves of garlic, finely chopped 2 chicken breasts, sliced into bite size 1 heaping tablespoon of Chili Paste* Half an onion, sliced about half cup each of red bell pepper and green bell pepper, sliced Fish Sauce to taste (start with 2tbsp, add more if needed) a handful of Thai Basil, regular basil will do as well bird-eye Chilli, optional *I make my own, but you can easily buy it at any Asian Market. The most readily available brand is in a 16oz jar, with yellow top and yellow, red and white lable. The label says Chilli Paste with Soya Bean Oil. The brand is Pantainorasingh. I have used this brand in the past, and find it acceptable for cooking though not for eating plain. Now you cook... Into a hot wok or sauteed pan, add the oil, then the chopped garlic wait until the garlic is just beginning to fragrant, be carful not to let it brown at this time as it will continue to cook after the addition of other ingredients. Add the chicken, stir it around for a few minutes until the chicken is about half way done, then add the fish sauce and chilli paste, give it a good stir. Next add the onion and bell peppers. If you like it very spicy, smashed up a couple of bird-eye chilli and throw them in. Cook, stiring frequently, until the chicken is done. Check the seasonings, add more fish sauce if needed. Throw in the handful of Thai Basil, turn the heat off, stir a few times to incorporate the basil into the dish. Serve immediately with freshly cooked jasmine rice, from Thailand of course. Enjoy, Pim

Lemon Basil is very similar to a Thai herb called Bai Mang-Luck. It goes terrifically well with green curry, especially chicken green curry. Try garnishing your green curry with a handful, you'll immdediately see what I mean. I can give you a recipe for green curry if you'd like.

Salut, Due to no fault of my own, I will be in Paris for about a week either the first or second week of August. I have in general avoided going there in August because my main interest while in Paris (well, besides the work my company paid me to do) is food, and being in Paris in August would just be pointless. I'd been trying to accomplish this business trip by the end of July, or at least wait until la rentree--but luck is not on my side. Can you please help? Does anyone know where to eat in August? What patisserie stays open? Restaurants? I'm pretty sure my beloved L'os a Moelle will be closed, but can someone local check for me? I would really truely appreciate the help. I know that the ethnic places, like la Bamboo, is probably open, but I wouldn't want to just eat vietnamese everyday. Any recommendation will be highly appreciated. Pim

Hate to disagree but...perfectly ripe peaches only last a day or two. We rush them home, eat some, make jam, pie or daquiris, and freeze the rest with a food saver system. I have read, and please correct me if this is wrong, that after being picked stone fruit does not ripen, just rots. Well you are sort of right. But what I find is, due to the excessive bruises, Frog Hollow peaches are downright inedible by Monday, because the bruises turn completely dark and have sort of a rotten taste. Their peaches appear as though they are dump into boxes without any insulation or anything to keep them from bumping into each other. Peaches or nectarines that I buy from the Saturday market are often still good to eat well into the week--though I usually finish them by Wednesday at the latest. Anyway, this is just an observation. I don't have anything against them at all. Any farms who practice organic and sustainable farming methods get my respect. I just was disagreeing with the assertion that they are consistently better than the other peach farmers at the farmer's market. Safeway, no question about it, but at a farmer's market, my recommendation would be taste around and pick what you like best instead of going with a brand name.

I have wondered about that too. Of course I've read what Jeffrey S. said about their peaches, so I started paying extra attention. I go to the Ferry Plaza market every Saturday morning (when I'm in town that is)--have done so for many years. I think I have enough data to make a generalization here. Unfortunately I don't think their peaches are consistently superior to others at the market. I mean, I never just go there and buy a bunch of peaches from Frog Hollow just becuase of the famous name. I always walk around and taste everything before I buy, so I often end up buying from different people at the market, including, occasionally, Frog Hollow's. In fact, I find their fruits in general excessively bruised and usually don't last longer than about a day or two. Don't tell me about the picking only ripe fruits thing, that argument would have been valid if compared to--say--fruits from Safeway. Other farmers at the market pick them ripe too, but they treat their fruits more gently perhaps.

We once brought a "White Trash Cheese Plate" to a party with a similar theme. Everyone loved it, and to our horror, it was the first thing to go at the party. The usual suspects go on a plastic tray, string cheese, cheddar cheese with speckles of stuff inside, Velveta, Ritz crackers, Kraft Singles, etc, and the pièce de resistance was the giant nut-covered cheese ball, oozing liquid of unknow origin, which was figured prominently in the center of the plate. Decorate the plate with that green plastic looking lettuce or something that you will find at-say-Marie Calanders, and there you have it!

good idea guajolote, at the very least, i'll mince the chicken (yeah, chicken) the day before. i cook it with lime juice, so i'll probably just wait til the next day to dress it. or, i can cook it with just stock, and dress it the next day. either way, i'll have to leave out the cilantro, red pepper, and scallion until the last minute, as i don't want them to go limp. i'm going to go ahead and do this. i'll report back. yours, in larb, tommy Laab at a cook out is really not that outlandish an idea. In Thailand, many Laab vendors sell their laabs at open air markets. Everything is set up mise en place, around a portable gas stove, each order is cooked a la minute right there out in the open. It is how it's done in open air markets in Thailand. You can have much of the same preparation at your barbeque. Make sure you have your ground chicken, rice powder, sliced shallots, chopped cilantro, chopped green onion, chopped mint, and Pak-shee Farang if you can find it Take a 3-quart sauce pan, heat it up nice and hot, in goes about two cups of chicken, add a bit regular chicken stock (not the non-fat variety)--just a tiny bit, the key here is to moisten the chicken and keep it from sticking to the pan. You don't want to boil or poach the chicken here. I recommend adidng the stock because ground chicken in Thailand most certainly include some skin, so it is nice and juicy and won't stick to the pan without any additional oil or stock. Ground breast meat will need some extra help. Now back to your pot, stir the chicken around real good, add your fish sauce now, a few shakes from the bottle will do, you can add more later should you need to. When the chicken is very nearly done, add a handful shallots, give it a couple more stirs, then rice powder(about a tbsp), then chilli powder, then a tiny sprinkle of sugar. Take it off the fire, add lime juice, then a handful or so of the chopped herbs (more cilantro, a little less mint and green onion). Give it a good stir and taste, adjust the seasonings if you need to. Of course you can do this in the comfort of your own kitchen too. I once had a party where I prepared everything mise en place, then my friends took turn making their own Laab and Somtum (Papaya salad) in the kitchen. It was great fun!! Everyone loved it, even my non-gourmet friends felt like one. A note on Authenticity: Yes it is true that there are endless permutation of Laab, but a core set of ingredients remains the same, and the preparation remains mostly the same. I will not give you proportions of the dressing, only that the taste of laab is supposed to be Hot, Sour, and Salty, in that order. Have fun!!

I am curious, where in Thailand did you grow up? I grew up in Bangkok. Laab, as you well know, is not a local dish of the central area. Though we central plainers have been incorporating dishes from other regions for centuries. I've followed this Laab discussion with a great interest. It's so wonderful to see something from my culture so completely captivated the forum’s attention. My ancestors would have been amused. A few interesting points from the discussion. I saw some people sound almost apologetic saying that they omitted Kaffir lime leaves. I find this quite puzzling, Magruud (Kaffir Lime) is not a traditional ingredient of Laab, nor is, in fact, Lemongrass. The particular herb that distinguishes a Laab from other forms of salads is Pak-shee Farang (translated amusingly as Foreigner’s cilantro). I have seen it a few times in the US, mostly in Vietnamese markets. They are called Saw Herb or something like that. As for the raw lab, and how traditional it is. The Laabs I have seen, and eaten, start out with raw meat, but they most certainly get cooked, to varying degree of done-ess. I know that the people in the North and Northeast do eat Laab Luerd (litterally blood laab), which are of course raw, and with plenty of blood in the dressing. This is by no means the most popular form of Laab in Thailand. They are in fact regarded with some suspicion by the general population.