Bux

I was using the work "you," but referring to the abstract "one" rather than anyone in partucular to comment on how travelers react to staying in hotels. My comments about rubber gloves in the US was merely to note that rarely are they useful in stopping the spread of germs because of the way in which they are used. I doubt there's really much difference in health risk in buying a loaf of bread in NY or Paris and if inspectors were looking, they should be as disturbed by the way the gloves are used as when they're not used. When handling change and bread one purchase after the other, it really makes no difference if the salesclerk is wearing gloves. The array of fine pastry in a small town patisserie can be impressive, although they all don't do such a uniformly impressive job these days. In the smal town of Pezenas, (some 7500, or less, inhabitants) there are several bakeries, but one in particular makes its own bread, croissants and a broad range of excellent pastries. It also makes an excellent assortment of chocolate bonbons in house. There are few places in NYC that could challenge it and I'm not even aware of one who could challenge it across the board.

I trust you're referring the more obsessed diners amongst us and not to the craziest chefs. I'll plead guilty.

Sadly, but true, there's a great disconnect these days between the way the French think about food and the way they think they think. There's a disconnect between the attention given to food and chefs in the press and what's on the table in homes and local restaurants to eat. There's a disconnect between the glorious tradition of French cuisine and the way that parents regard McDonald's and processed cheese as proper for children. The French are no longer raising their chldren to have a taste for "French food." Almost in opposition to the national trends a gastronomic "elite" continues to exist and while it's based on a tradition we don't really have in this country, it is dependent to some degree on educating adults who were not raised to appreciate good food.Yet, for such a small country, they probably still have a greater number of good little country restaurants and more fine pastry shops than we probably have in the US. Certainly they beat us hands down on a per capita basis. Food in the US seems to be getting better. Certainly it has over the last forty years. Food in France seems to be on a plateau lower than it was in the sixties, but there are strongholds of the old standards and there are renaissance movements afoot in many regions.

We'll all agree that rules are made to be broken, the disagreement comes when we decide who breaks what rule. The no cheese with pasta and clam sauce is a classic rule, but I've never heard of not mixing onions and garlic in the same preparation. I just picked up a cookbook and turned to two tomato sauce recipes. Both had garlic and onions in the sauce. Pia's point about burning the garlic is well taken, but I'm wondering if there is a commonly known rule about garlic and onion together and if such a rule might have been passed on to novice cooks to keep them from burning the garlic. Cream sauces are not common in Italian food, but are they really "banned?"

Faith, thank you for your answer. Although my travels in Italy have been fewer than those in France, or even Spain, they date back to the days when it was almost impossible to get a bad meal in France at any price. Even then however, I was prone to suggest that although I found the heights in France more interesting, I ran far less of a chance of walking in off the street anywhere in Italy and getting a disappointing meal than I did in France. I find intellectual creativity stimulating be it in art, design or food, but I'll admit that creative food can often fall short of pleasing. More to the point of your response however, I am trying to remember in which country I had the greatest chance tof sitting in a chair and being uncomfortable. I think that would say a lot about a country's attitudes towards daily life.

I assume the second "Granada" is a typo for Cordoba. El Churrasco is excellent. Didn't eat at El Caballo Rojo. You might want to do a search on some of the town names for previous posts. I recommended El Churrasco and a couple of other places in Andalucia in this thread. It might be a good place to start looking at older threads. A search on "Churrasco" will bring up five other threads. "Sevilla" should be another search.

A dubious title and one that may come with an admission that I think I'd prefer to be Mr. Catalunya. I'm still a francophile at heart, but I've been eating better in Spain than in France and no place is that distinction more apparent than at the border and perhaps more so at the Mediterranean. Actually Graham Tigg may be Mr. Languedoc-Rousillon, but he posts infrequently and may not read the Spain forum regularly. Here's his site on the Languedoc and Rousillon. It's more Languedoc than Rousillon although the map extends as far as Roses. At the far other end of his map, he shows Belcastel and Laguiole, the home of excellent restaurant inns. Both those towns are in the Aveyron and distant from Spain. Mrs. B and I have been spending less time with our friends in that area, (they are near Pezenas and Beziers) and it's been a while since we've had an outstanding or even recommendable meal in a restaurant in the region. What we do get are some wonderful cheeses, but even those mostly come from an area a bit north. I don't think Spain approaches France in terms of cheese and pastry in general although they are doing some fine work particularly in chocolate. Nevertheless, and the reason I am allowing myself to talk about France in the Iberian forum, there are no restaurants in the class of Can Fabes, Can Roca, Sant Pau, etc. unless you go as far as Lagioule.

The ones with no possiblities seem to be the 10,000, or more perhaps, that ask for a particular Saturday night in the middle of the season. The restaurant has only so many tables and chairs. I have no inside knowledge about how reservations are awarded, but it's clear that there's more competition for some nights than others. Asking for a Tuesday in May is bound to result in a better chance than a Saturday in July or August. Letting Luis know you are flexible and will take any table any night is bound to get you a better chance at a reservation, although you may be the last person to get an answer. There does appear to be one advantaged position, and that's in knowing exactly when to apply. For that all eGullet members have to be thankful to Louisa for her timeley post. The moral of the story is that one should stay plugged in to eGullet. The other side to this is that since reservations are being made months before the restaurant opens and in some cases 9 or 10 months before the actualy dinner date, there are bound to be cancellations and anyone planning on spending months in Roses will surely find an opportunity to pick one up.

I knew someone who wouldn't bathe in hotel bathtubs. Shower yes, bathtub no. I never asked about swimming pools. Travel must be difficult for someone who refuses to touch hotel blankets or bedspreads. It's true that in NY you hardly ever see anyone touch bread or other foods in a shop with their bare hands. The clerks all wear rubber gloves, the same ones they wear when they take your money and count your change. It might help keep them clean. It's best not to buy food from merchants whose hands you wouldn't shake if introduced and avoid doorknobs. When you buy a loaf of bread in a bakery, do you wash your hands after handling your payment and before touching the bread. Most bakeries bake in house, but not all. There used to be a sharp difference between a boulangerie and a patisserie. That's less so today, at least at some levels. There really are traditional, almost standardized items you will find all over France, but there are also some incredibly creative pastry chefs, especially in Paris. The monoprix is about the last place I'd buy bread, but Bon Marché and Galleries Lafayette both have great food departments. I still don't know that I'd buy bread there either. Did you enjoy France? I mean apart from the comments you've made here so far.

France isn't what it used to be, especially when it comes to eating. On the other hand, I don't know that it ever was what you think it might have been. I've never sauteed a mirepoix in the process of making moules marinière and I've never seen such a thing in a recipe I've seen. Moules frîtes is a dish of Belgian origin and almost unknown in France when I started visiting. It's an import from Belgium. Actually so are "French" fries if most experts are to be trusted. Celelry and carrots? Sound like a Belgian recipe or at least one from Flanders which is not so surprising in Champage. I'd not look askance at barnacles on my mussels although I suspect the unexpected visual may have colored your taste as well. The French eat barnacles. My Larousse Gastronomic says they are cooked like mussels. They shouldn't ruin the soup. I had mediocre, at best, mussels in Lille in a cafe crowded with mussel eaters, however and much better ones in Antwerp for whatever that's worth. Mussels are also a seasonal food and not always plump. I knew France in the days when one couldn't find a bad meal, or maybe in the days when my taste buds were less developed. It's hard to be absolutely sure, memory plays tricks on us, but I'm fairly confident things are not as they used to be and bad food is common. I've always thought it harder to get a bad meal in Italy than France, even in the past and today, I find I'd rather take my chances in Spain without a guide. All that said, food is a serious matter in France and guide books abound. Why not make use of them? They're my first suggestion for avoiding bad food even at the lowest price level. I suppose one develops a sense for what to look for, but even an experienced French hand will only be able to improve his odds of finding good places and avoiding the bad ones. There's no guarantee. Sometimes it's important to compare the prices with what you might get back home at the same price. As for boil in bag food. It's all the rage. It's called "sous-vide" and used at the best places in NYC.

Faith, I'd like to add my thanks for taking the time to be with us and answer our questions. I'd also like to piggyback ride on Balex's question. For all of my adult life, which means most of the last half the last century, Italy has been among the vanguard in terms of art and design, certainly among the visual arts and even more so in design. In particular, Italians have often been in forefront of creative thinking and design in those areas that touch our daily life. I'm thinking of architecture, interior design, furniture, product design and fashion. I'm sure most people in Italy don't necessarily live in an avant garde home or wear the latest fashions, yet these fields attract men and women who make an international splash with their creativity. Why has this not been paralleled in food and restaurants?

I'm always happy to share a glass of Beauolais Nouveau with any bartender or restaurateur who cares to make the offer, althoug it's been a long time since I've contemplated actually buying a bottle. I'm pleased to celebrate the harvest and the future of the wine for a few weeks, but by the time December rolls around, my interest is about zero. There's little that's sadder than seeing cases of six month old BN on sale. It may even be more depressing than seeing good books being remaindered for less than the cost of blank paper. Good Beaujolais is still a favorite wine. The current issue of Ed Behr's the Art of Eating features Beaujolais and it's wines. I haven't finished reading all of it, but I was suprised to learn that several of a small group of winemakers filter part of their production for the French trade, but not at all for the American market to the credit of their American importers. It's probably not my place to comment on the rulings of the French courts, although they seem restrictive in regard to critical expression. If the court find it goes "beyond the acceptable exercise of the respective social roles of criticism," to say that Beauolais Nouveau is shit, I wonder what they'd make of some of the hyperbole on eGullet.

A glowing review of Couvron. "a destination restaurant and an experience that shouldn’t be missed." Another very positive review of the opening night. " if what we experienced last night is any indication, they already are a huge hit." A far less promising review." At $8 to $14 for appetizers and $23 to $36 for entrées, dining at Couvron costs as much as at some of Manhattan's finer, more established restaurants. After having eaten an unremarkable meal here, I have doubts that Couvron would survive in this category. On the other hand, Couvron's small space (it seats just 60) and the neighboring eateries, which are more downscale and cater to a local crowd, suggest that Couvron has the correct physical characteristics of a downtown neighborhood joint. But Couvron is too formal, too expensive and the food is too rich for it to be successful in this niche." Once again, the reviews may speak more of the diner's perceptions and perspective.

http://menupages.com/ ? Do you have any idea how accurate those are? Are they updated regularly?

I trust you will look for and find the person selling socca, a thin chickpea plour pancake, in the cours Saleya. Socca can also be had in little places that specialize it.

I have at times when driving in rural areas on back roads been known to follow any hand lettered sign that says "chevre." I've never really had the opportunity to discuss the process, but we've been able to buy lovely local goat cheeses. At the open air market on market day in any market town, you are likely to find local producers selling their own cheeses. This is particularly true of goat cheeses which are often made in very small quantities by small producers. There has been at least one good thread on cheese shops in Paris. You will be hard pressed to find better cheeses than at the best affineurs in Paris or other parts of France. Where are you going to be in France for those 8-10 days? Or should I be reading Paris for France and that you are interested in a day trip from Paris to find cheese? Will you have a car? Brie and most of the fabulous cheeses of Normandy are both within reach of a day trip as are the wonderful chevres of the Loire, but I don't know of any special blue cheeses that close to Paris. I have found the regional cambres of commerce or tourist bureaus have excellent publications covering the local food. I've run across brochures listing all sorts or artinsanal producers within the area by stopping at the various tourist offices in small towns and large cities.

This forum is now closed. The entire forum, questions, answers, and Harold McGee's INTRODUCTION - Cooking and Science, 1984 and 2000, will continue to be available on a read only basis in our Q&A Fridge for future reference. I'd like to thank all the members who participated here. This has been an outstanding Q&A. For that we have to offer a special thanks to Harold McGee who I know has been distracted this week, but who has nonetheless come through answering all your questions thoroughly and thoughtfully. We'll announce the winners of the drawing to copies of On Food and Cooking shortly.

Quilez is the only interesting shop I know of in Barcelona, though I suspect there are many others. Should you get to Madrid, or if anyone else is interested, vserna directed us to La Oleoteca de "El Olivo," C/. Juan Ramón Jiménez, 37. It was specialty boutique. The variety of oils and the regions represented were impressive. We didn't buy any oil as we have a great source of estate bottled Italian olive oils in NY, but we purchased some sherry vinegars because these are distinct and this kind of variety is not available here.

There's an assumption here that reviews start at four stars and lose them for faults. I rather doubt Bruni made any deductions and as Oakapple has so well pointed out, he left no doubt that the food, let alone any other part of the restaurant, did not approach four stars in his opinion. My sense from reading Bruni's review is also quite similar to Oakapple's in that Bruni seems to be saying that Sri gets bonus points for being the best of it's type. Rich continues to offer a peculiarly personal view of what four stars means and decides to ignore the definitions offered by those who speak the language and understand the system. For that reason the discussion is tiresome. It's much like witnessing a discussion between an American who insists that "rouge" means green and carries on a discussion about traffic lights in French with Frenchmen.I don't know that an honest discussion can begin from a point in which someone gets to vote on what Bruni would have awarded a restaurant under some hypothetical conditions, but if there was, we still have no basis for assuming Bruni "deducted" one star from Babbo for anything. Quite simply, we can assume nothing other than that Babbo didn't live up to four stars in Bruni's mind. Every other assumption has to be made on individual faith and not on the words of Bruni's review. Rich hang's on a literal interpretation of a few words whose meaning changes with the context of the sentence and paragraph around them. This is where context is everything and relativity is important.

Is it the unseen and assumed practice, or the quality of the food that's at issue?

Okay. A flamiche is a savory tarte from northeastern France. I had thought it was made with eggs as well as leeks, flour and cheese. More and more, it seems as if your training is classicly French even down to the more homespun or regional classics.

You're right. In spite of the fact that I know the chefs, more and more, we tend to go there for the banal end of the menu-- hamburgers, bar steaks, mussels (anything with fries) and oysters--not that the more sophisticated preperations are lacking. Actually, I had a grilled vegetable plate at lunch one day that was severely under inspired. Naked ladies and dancing girls? Actually there is some such place in NY and Jeffry Steingarten gave its steaks a good review in Vogue as I recall about a year ago.

I don't know about the food kicking butt and I don't know about it being over priced. Most of what I've had there has pleased me at a rate that's far above average for New York and I've often walked out of other restaurants saying I couldn't have eaten better at Balthazar for less money. The sevice isn't necessarily perfect, but in its way, it can be impressive. I enjoy eating there and Trish is right when she says it's fun. When it first opened, I was offended that if brought yet more tourists to my neighborhood. Maybe I've just capitulated, or maybe I've been won over, but sometimes I'm there, convinced that everyone in the room is a tourist, or at least from the suburbs, and I'm not only happy to be there, but glad they have a place we enjoy. The only thing I've started to regret is that they seem to be attracting diners who just don't have a clue about eating in a restaurant or feel they're not in a restaurant. Not long ago we sat next to a table of two women of an uncertain age. They were discussing their work or their careers or something and one of them felt the need to slam her palms on the table every time she needed to make a point, which was increasingly more frequent as the evening and drinks wore on. As she was sitting right next to me, she was outside the range of my peripheral vision and the noise was so great and unexpected that the first time she did this, I almost jumped out of my seat. After the third or fourth time, I learned to watch her out of the corner of my eye so just as not to be surprised by the thud. It's loud in there. I can barely hear my wife across the table (although to be fair, she says I never listen) yet the adjacent noise was loud and clear. More recently, we sat next to a mixed table of a half dozen or so early twenty-somethings. Next to me was a young woman who addded a resounding clap to every point she made. As she drank her wine, the claps became more frequent. I don't know that the claps became any louder, but the abandonment with which she spread her wings invaded my physical space as well. There's really not much point in shooting an annoyed glance at anyone so self absorbed, but my patience with people like that is wearing thin. Don't get me wrong. I still like the place. At what time. At peak time I've seen a wait over 45 minutes. On the other hand, on an off night or non-peak time, if you're willing to take a table in the bar area, you might be seated in five or ten minutes. Most of those tables are fine. There are a couple of tiny round ones in odd spots that are less enjoyable, but if all I'm in the mood for is a burger, even those can be acceptable.

In all fairness, McGee's book is not a cookbook. Even the dissertation on boiling water is abstract.

The Michelin guide only lists a half dozen of the restaurants in Cancale, but two are closed from the middle or end of November until the beginning of February and three more are closed from mid November until the 17th or 18th of December. I don't where, or if, the locals eat other than at Roellinger's, but there must be places to get oysters. You won't starve. Good luck