Bux

This thread seems to be verging on a "my chef is better than yours." AD/PA was perhaps not the most compelling meal or dining memory I've had, but the food was mostly drop dead stunning. I think I posted this, and more, sometime back in reference to my meal last November" In addition to some canapés, we were brought an amuse bouche of what we believe was a sort of warm molded savory soft meringue sitting in a bit of lemony sauce. There was a parmesan tuille on top and some herring roe scattered about. Inside was a warm thick egg yolk. This was about the most exquisite egg we've seen. We were fully prepared to rave about this egg for some time to come had our plan not been upset by our the art and craft of our ordered courses, which were of such a high order as to make us re-evaluate the language with which we, or others, have used to describe fine food in the past. Although as often as not, our dishes appeared devoted to the eye, it became clear that taste was the objective in each dish. The service may have been a bit too aloof for me and maybe it's not my kind of room, but the food was impressive. When chocolate sauce on scallops becomes the standard for "inventive," Ducasse's food cannot be described as inventive. On the basis of my meal at AD/PA, which I may have noted was less joyous than my meal at AD/NY but which I felt offered more incredible food, I am ready to believe that Ducasse could set a bowl of cepes in olive oil before me and have me come away feeling I had never understood either olive oil or cepes until then--or maybe it will be boring, but it's patently absurd to dismiss his food because you haven't tasted it. I certainly wouldn't dismiss that kind of creativity that allows the diner to revisit food as it he's never tasted it before.

It would seem to me, that any self-pasteurizing food would be hot stuff, no?

Right. Hellman's has some claim to the name mayonnaise. Miracle Whip isn't even fit to hold Hellman's coat.

Odd, I could have sworn you said: You did say manuscript update, not proposal update.

I thought you said it was a contribution to the lexicon of haute cuisine in the context of that paragraph. Throughout history artists have been known for their intellectual contributions, but their ideas have come to define what we call aesthetics and how we see art and beauty. Yes, great chefs can redefine what we think about taste in food and there's a parallel. If chefs are more like media stars today, perhaps it's all the more reason we shouldn't be so sure how they will be regarded in the future and we shouldn't assume the traditional criteria in judging them. Wilfred, I was under the impression that Escoffier didn't so much invent all those dishes as he codified the names for those dishes and even for the garnishes so that you could know exactly what you were gettting when you ordered a dish in a new restaurant. In the post nouvelle cuisine era, chefs are doing the opposite and every dish's name is a pun or a joke and the ingredients are listed under neath the name on the menu.

well in that case i need to enter three years' worth of tasting notes into a database, and i'm also behind on vintage research..... this kitty litter really needs to be scooped through, too.... oh, and i really should pay my visa bill in full this month--$483.77.... Be careful what you wish for ... Have you noticed how many of the posts in this thread are helpful to Fat Guy. Did you count the ones that even try? Are they as numerous as the ones threatening law suits. You're going to end up with a dozen members tasting your wine, thumbing though your check book, commenting on your visa charges and looking to play with your ... uh, cat.

My guess is that if you could post your list it would make it very easy for each of us to quickly cross check it. You might have reasons for not doing that. I assume you're mostly interested in what's closed and what's opened or moved since April, or is that wrong and you also want some editorial opinion about restaurants. I suspect not the latter. Tell us. Most restaurants change their menus periodically. I can't imagine you want us to come up with the lastest menu. I gather everyone understands this is about restaurants in New York City and the title suggests.

I was going to say that the flavor of flat leaf is both better and more pronounced, but the truth is that I haven't used curly leaf in so long that I'm not sure. I never thought of curly parsley as nasty or bitter tasting, but as I say, I just don't remember.

I thought I'd already mentioned my chocolate, coconut and curry dessert at El Bulli. It was in fact, one of the least challenging and most easily appreciated dishes of the evening and would have been a welcome and fitting dessert at Blue Hill, Cafe Boulud, GramercyTaven or any number of satisfying restaurants in NYC. Admittedly the curry flavor was minimal.

I find a lot of contentions are valid, at least in the context they are made. For some people the term gourmet must be applied only to someone who would eat and appreciate all manner of food. That would I assume, necessarily include tofu, insects, snakes, worms, the odd sour and fermented beverages around the world, as well as maggot infested cheese so beloved in Spain. Shoud one's definition of "gourmet" allow one to exclude any of those items, I don't see why everyone else doesn't get the same privilege of excluding some food, even if as broad a category as flesh. If not, I'd have to say that those who don't drink alcohol might also be excluded as well as those who don't drink caffeine and so on. On the other hand, it might prove difficult for me to carry on a conversation about food with a vegetarian. Actually not, my wife and I, both confirmed carnivores, had a lovely dinner recently where we shared all the food with a couple who were vegetarians. As they sometimes eat seafood, we included a bean cured dish with a little crab meat, but it could easily have been eliminated in favor of one of several all vegetable dishes on the menu and still have been a gourmet dinner. Gourmet vegetarians exist, at least in theory.

Was eGullet down for a few minutes or was my computer just balking at letting me respond to all this. I'm reminded of why I like reviews and food articles by champions (defenders of the faith, not victors). For the most part, the positive statements leave me at worst, curious, and at best eager to eat in the restaurant in question. On the other hand, most of the negative comments leave me unconvinced about whether the chef has little to say or if the diners just didn't get it. I am amused to read that Pacaud's curried langoustines are a signature contribution to haute cuisine. I had thought, against arguments, that they were a superbly crafted contemporary version of a dish that was almost a classic flavor combination by the time I had it in the late 90's. The last counter argument regarding that dish seemed to say it was a sign of all that's wrong with French food today. When it comes to influences on a younger chef, I'd have to say that a small influence by an unrelated chef would be of more significant interest to culinary historians and the generally curious than would the expected great influence resulting from that chef cooking with his father. There is a "man bites dog" aspect to all news. The obvious need not be noted too often. It's easy enough to modify our standards to fit what we like after the fact, but it's still curious to see who likes what. Haut cuisine may be starting to resemble modern abstract art more than anything else. As painting stopped being about representation and the telling of stories to the illiterate, it stopped speaking to every one and in many cases only spoke to a very small group, at least until they made converts. Haute cuisine has, at least until recently, still been about an incremental refinement in what we normally eat for lunch and dinner. Fashion came and went in representational art, but abstract art was far harder to digest, appreciate or even understand. Negative comments about revolutionary or even major evolutionary movements become irrelevant. It's best to either ignore what you don't like or understand and concentrate on what you like or find interesting and explain what you find of interest. For that reason I find few people here worth reading from start to finish. Michael's voice has been the most interesting as he's presented a view that I've found to be consistently open and appreciative even when he's ready to dismiss a chef or a cuisine. When he does, it seems it's not because he found it worthless, but because he's taken all he can and is ready to move on. I should not be surprised to find Michelin altering it's notes to state that you may or may not eat superbly well at a three star restaurant, but that it's worth the voyage to establish your own opinion of the controversial cuisine.

I understand you exaggerate the point and I think Steve does even more so, if unintentionally, but I should note that mlpc "left [Arpege] vaguely disappointed." I disagree that Robuchon's potato puree is the epitome of haute cuisine and it's ultimate expression, but haute cuisine has tended towards the highly processed product of a labor intensive kitchen. Joints with bones, tend not to make it to the tables of joints that serve haute cuisine. Even chops have their dainty little bones "Frenched." I thnk there are those who attempt to eat haute cuisine every night and for them this ultra refined food is most disturbing. One must see this sometimes outrageous display of creativity and finesse as a once a week or even once a month excursion and then encourage the real artists to break away from the concepts of dinner as we now know it. Perhaps Michelin needs a four star designation for destination restaurants where you are not assured of eating superbly well and where you may be outraged or amazed by the skills, dexterity and creativity, but I fear that would encourage too many chefs to think they could skip the first three stars successfully. Fat Guy may well be expressing his opinion, but he is goading you. Guys, he's pulling your leg. He quotes an anonymous poster on the www.patriciawells.com message boards, as confirmation of his opinion and you take him seriously.

You probably say the same thing about a Twinkie. Do they ever go stale? Of course some people raise the question of whether they are ever fresh.

I'm not sure Hellman's is even marked with a "sell by" date, although there's probably some industry code. Even after it's opened, I think the refrigerator life is pretty long. Is the TJ stuff bottled and sttting on a shelf, or in a refrigerator case?

Jay, I owe you an apology. Keep up the good work.

Doesn't Hellman's also contain sugsr? I recall a distinct sweetness in the taste. For me that's an unwanted flavor, although sugar should also act as a preservative. Nevertheless this is what started the discussion: So far pasturization and its cousin sterilization are the only things we've mentioned that seem plausible. A reduction in the amount of egg yolk, assuming the brands without stabilizers or preservatives use frozen yolks, might be a small factor as well. Delouis Fils Fresh Mayonnaise seems to be a superior product when compared with most bottled mayos, but I thought its shelf life, sealed or unsealed, was much shorter than Hellman's. How does the Trader Joe's brand compare?

Information is good, but only if you trust your informant.

Well it's been fun. Happy to have you stop by and start a conversation anytime. I'm surprised no one made any allusions to how free loading journalists raised the ante for the rest of us just trying to get a good meal at a good price. Someone has to cover the inflated cost of doing three star business.

It seems to make sense that the birds might, by nature, want to put on weight in the winter, but ducks and geese do not hibernate. Wild ducks and geese are migratory. Apparently there is some tendency for wild ducks and geese to gorge themselves prior to migration, but I doubt it is to the point where their livers become so fat. I don't know why domestic water fowl don't just fly away whether raised for their livers or not. Perhaps flight has been bred out of them. I'm wondering if the season is not market driven. Winter is when rich fatty foods are more palatable and more in demand. Most foie gras in France is consumed around Christmas and New Year's Eve. I suspect it's not just because the livers are available then. Whatever the reason or season, people have been fattening geese since at least biblical times, although it's hard to say just when foie gras became the target. Ginor's book has some very interesting historical information, but at a quick glance, I couldn't find anything about seasons. That's not to say the information is not there.

I'm not sure how much of that information is really useful to the end consumer as it appears the top restaurants may use a term to mean one thing, but other restaurants down the line use it to mean something else. The range being from fresh scallops havested by a diver to large frozen scallops. In the end, your only guarantee is the reputation of the chef who's writing up the menu. If you're eating scallops at le Bernardin, you have every right to expect them to be the very best available in NY at that time of year and it really doesn't matter what the menu says, but I value the information as education rather than as a guaranty. Arzak in San Sebastian made quite a point of the fact that his squid were line caught. He felt they were less likely to be bruised than net caught squid. I suppose the most ridiculous sort of labeling goes along the lines of "ocean fresh." That's the equivalent of creamery butter and garden peas.

It's rough to compare an American restaurant to one in France, but I thought my one meal at CT was pretty much a world class meal. I can't say I was surprised as I heard raves from a French chef who thought it was as good as any meal he had in NY. Trotter's and The French Laundry are the two meals outside of New York that have impressed me the most. Although I can hardly be said to have dined at all the potential world class restaurants in the US, I've been disappointed by more than enough supposedly great restaurants. Then again I've had some excellent meals in hotel restaurants in both Chicago and San Francisco. Come to think of it, both places are pretty good restaurant cities. In some ways they are better than NY, but that starts to get into a very silly comparison and we've had enough uninteresting threads that prove little other than the fact that we all have different ideas of what's most important. I suspect that someone with classic French tastes might prefer FL to CT, but there are subjective considerations here. Perhaps the best competition those two restaurants had was a meal in le Bec Fin in Philadelphia, but the chef who was there at the time has left.

It pains me to say tommy knows what he's talking about. The least reliable thing is the timing. Heat, composition of the liquid, atmospheric conditions, and other things will affect how long it should boil or simmer. The actual amount of liquid is often far less important than the quality of the final sauce anyway. For the most part this is all done by eye sense of the liquid in the pot, but if the actual amount is critical, I will pour it into a measuring cup once or twice.

Do we have any members from Ottawa? Stephen Beckta, a local boy, who's been working in NYC as a sommelier, first at Cafe Boulud and then at Eleven Madison Park, is on his way back to Ottawa. We first met him at Cafe Boulud and have enjoyed his recommendations and his conversation at both restaurants here in NY. When we saw him earlier this month, he said he was leaving for Ottawa at the end of September to open a restaurant. I don't know who the chef is, or much else, but it Stephen is involved, I'd give it a try on that basis. Knowing him a bit as I do, and knowing that he spent some time doing a stage at Ducasse this summer, my bet is that it will be a classy place with great standards. Keep an eye out for it.

We were in Victoria for a couple of days about three years ago. We had a meal at what I think was a new restaurant whose name I don't remember. We chose the restaurant because they chef came from France where he had a restaurant with a Michelin star. My wife ordered scallops with some confidence. The came out rather over cooked and she played with them more than she ate them. The waiter picked up on it and asked if something was wrong. My wife is not the sort who says "if's fine" when it's not. She told him she found them seriously overdone and not very appetizing. They were whisked away and redone for her, with an apology from the chef who was happy to prepare them properly for her after so many locals had returned properly cooked ones because they were "not cooked enough." Basically, what we learned is that the locals don't have the same standards for food, one is more likely to find in Vancouver or Seattle where things were generally cooked to our standards--although I didn't always appreciate some Pacific Rim food in Seattle that seemed less fused than advertised. A second meal at a Hunan Restaurant in Chinatown, ("Hunan" was in the name and there were not a lot of Hunan restaurants in Victoria) was exceptional--although I was told Victoria didn't have good Chinese food. We had black cod with bean curd and it was one of the best fish dishes I've had. You rarely see black cod (sable) here on the east coast for one thing and for another it was just perfectly done. A dish of twice cooked pork (with cabbage) was also better than I've had it here in NYC since. However, I'd say you're safer with burgers and beer except for the fact that one couldn't get a rare burger. Good local beer, maybe not from the island but from BC at any rate. I believe there is at least one restaurant on the island with a good reputation, but it's not in Victoria. Fat Guy should kick in here. He has experience in the area, but he was also the one who told me not to expect much from Victoria in comparison to Vancouver.

Is there a distinction between "guest" and "diner?" I mean is everyone supposed to get some sort of party favor? Should I feel slighted that no one signed our caps? We did get a good corkscrew that I still frequently used and some groceries. Actually a jar of the marinade came in very handy when we went on to visit family further south in Illinois and they set up the grill for dinner.