paul o' vendange

Just hoping to get a comparative sense of the latest (?) 2009 edition, black and white cover, and the 2001 “revised and updated” edition, red cover? I have the 2001 and am very devoted to it but trying to get a sense if it’s worthwhile getting the 2009 edition. Any thoughts? thanks.

I don’t disagree. Bernie’s right and we are talking thermal conductivity in addition to thermal mass. It’s nigh just impossible to replicate the bake from a brick pizza and and home, no matter what we do. So we do what we can. I’ve found steel is just not very good compared to my results obtained using either a stone and an array of saturated linen, or a cast iron cloche as advocated by the Tartine approach. I should note I’m talking about levain only, not pastries. if folks haven’t read it but are interested, the late Alan Scott was a guru behind a resurgent interest in traditional brick ovens. See The Bread Builders. Mud ovens, too, are pretty wonderful. There’s some cultural anthro study out there re the traditional mud ovens of Quebec, 16th century on. Forget it’s name, but it’s somewhere and fascinating. At any rate, this is pretty far off Anova, apologies. Just wanted to share my experience. Will beg off now.

Lol, yep, pretty peppy bit of steam. That steam goes so quickly, but I want to do what I can to keep a humid environment. I forgot to mention I toss a couple of ice cubes at T-15 to also lend to a good start. The sheet of soaked towels goes in right at preheat (I’ve always gone an hour for preheating. Oven may be there but I want to make sure the stone or Dutch oven are fully at temp). The towels perform like champs. See plenty of steam coming up till I pull sheet or the cloche lid, 20 minutes. Even with the fact the oven constantly vents. Ideas aren’t mine. Sort of a hybrid of Hamelman and Tartine.

I am no scientist either but yep, we’re talking thermal mass. Your plate retains heat better than a stone has greater mass still. One benefit, I believe. Is to act as a bit more of a buffer - every time we open the door the temp drops dramatically but it’s less of a problem with bakes on material of higher thermal mass than lower mass. I can’t speak for Anova as I’ve never used one. My oven gets a warmup, with cast iron steel Dutch oven if applicable, or stone itself when doing bakes with barards or any other longer breads like baguettes. In this second case, I set up a cookie sheet with rolled up kitchen towels, heavily soaked prior to being put in the heat oven. Regardless, I have a hotel pan full of lava rocks which hit with water just prior to baking . Anova is a steam oven, right? If so I can’t speak to anything else but f higher or lower higher mass.

Thanks weinoo, really nice. I cannot remember anything about it (what and why....not a whole lot left!), but with respect to ratios, sucree more sugar balanced relative to fat, and the opposite for Sablée, this lends certain properties I can’t recall. (?) I dock sucree for blind baking. Is the advice against it because of more liquid fillings (e.g. curd)?

Douglas, were you in the industry by any chance? My cousin is a CA winemaker, though he left working for the big concerns when consolidation killed any hope of quality (he ran Jekel, until it was bought by bourbon guys and collapsed all capacity into mass-wine). It’s a shame, I love his wine. Pretty crazy, I used to work for a craft brewery (Goose Island, pre-Bud), and during that time my wife and I won a trip to England, dinner with the late Michael Jackson (all things malt writer, not the King of Pop) in London and a tour of breweries throughout England. Pretty cool, after tour of Fuller’s in London, in their adjacent shop, lo and behold I see a small mountain of his wines on display. They gushed, I was and am deeply proud of him.

Excellent post, thanks Jimbo. Never thought of it. Makes perfect sense.

$9.95, 2 day shipping included (prime). About as cheap as it gets, I imagine,

For some reason all I see anymore in terms of Amazon is the domain itself, not a link to the product. Sorry, I see I forgot to name the company in the post (Xximuim - in the title). Here’s a description: Silicone Mold,1PCS Half Sphere Baking Mold Chocolate Candy and Gummy Mold Teacake Bakeware Set for Chocolate, Cake, Jelly, Pudding, Candy Molds Non Stick, BPA Free Silicone Molds (24 Rounds) They all look the same in that they are 4 x 6 rounds, 30 mm: Thanks for any thoughts, guys.

I commend you! I am guilty of being both a technological Luddite, and someone who needs to feel the weight and feel of a book. So I can destroy it with notes and relentless ladle drips and oil slicks.

Inevitably I’ll get it because my cookbook acquisition illness is terminal.😏

I need a half-sphere mold in 30”. I’ve never seen or used this company but their 30mm/ 6 x 4 mold is cheap, and they come with Amazon prime (free, 2 day shipping). All materials are not the same in my experience, even if they are sold as so. Anyone know them?

I searched but unless I missed it, I didn’t find a mention of Modern French Pastry, looks interesting. Anyone? I have more books than I could read and cook through several lifetimes. Still.....always room somewhere for another. I know we’re all similarly afflicted...😍

Thanks Fred. Great note on the enclosure and first turn. I find it much the same with “classic” puff so good to know. Who came up with this iteration of feuilletage, anyone know?

Thanks Heidi, very helpful. I have to laugh as I’m afraid my hands are likely the polar opposites to you. Typing this is excruciatingly cumbersome as my thumb is thick and ungainly and I can’t look at butter without its melting in stark terror. Thanks to an early fever for all things French and thanks to Jacques for lighting a lifelong fire for fundamentals (to a fault), I’ve been able to stumble through well enough as needed on pastry but too keenly aware at my relatively feeble technical and imaginative mastery. C’est la vie. Careme’s spirit will have to wait for the next life, 😏 I really appreciate your post, thanks. What a beautiful place to write from, and helpful to get your perspective.

Thanks Anna. I’ve read wonderful things about it too. It seems more difficult to master, so looking forward to the challenge. I’ve read chilled marble, cold room and hands are almost a necessity, which makes sense. Never worked on marble - outside my actually starting my cooking life going gonzo over La Technique and pastry most especially, been very much on the savory side. Thanks for the info!

In all these years, I’ve never done inverse puff. All I’ve made is classic puff or amended for croissants, etc., but have never used inverse nor have I tasted it. I’ve always just used a good wooden workbench. For inverse, presuming a room temp if 68F - 72F, how necessary does anyone marble is to do a decent inverse?

Thanks so much Shelby, good to be back. Been a bit dodgy medically over the years but wonderful to see you and the others again. thanks on the thread info, will do! 😊❤️

My wife and I both love her. I got the book for her for Christmas and she is loving it. great thread, have some catching up to do!

Oh, not at all. It stands for L'École Supérieure de Cuisine Française, one of the oldest cooking schools in France. Also known as Ferrandi, it’s well respected and personally I love their textbooks. Their main book is only in French but their pastry and chocolate texts are in English. I really like them all.

Yep, agreed. I love Peterson's Sauces book (his Sauces, and Fish books are my two faves). I only have the second edition, though, well-worn. Do you have the current Sauces edition? Is it worth it to buy the new book? I'm very excited to read TFL/PS. I love all his books and this one looks fantastic. Right there with you - I love the classical foundation married to modern approaches,

That's a good point. My suspicion however is it's more caramelization and maillard reactions we pick up after a long simmer, over any aroma compounds given by aromatics and herbs lasting for hours (and with aroma being a key component of what we know of as "flavor", not sure what perceptions would be left, as these compounds, many of them, so easily evaporate). It's an interesting question since these compounds have different evaporation (and thus loss) affinities. I've never compared and so I'm only guessing. I'm sure it's been studied - McGee, maybe? Mostly, I was just puzzled by the book's comments on timing for their general approach or "master method": "...In the early days, at [TFL}, we'd cook the aromatic vegetables for nearly as long as the bones. But vegetables release pretty much all their flavor in 45 to 60 minutes. So today we only add the vegetables at the end of the stock making..." Yet the veal stock as described in the book is as we've always known Chef Keller to do, in three parts, aromatics added in early in "Veal Stock 1." At a loss, then, how this fits within the "master [stock] method" description above. Anymore, I tend to do something along the line Escoffier describes, with bones getting long simmers and any meaty remnants (and aromatics) getting a shorter simmer, to preserve these aroma compounds. I'll also get giddy and do something like the coulis described in Peterson's book, with several increasingly stronger stocks coming to make the final stock. I try to parse when to add the aromatics both to avoid too much sweetness, and preserve some aromatic "brightness," really (e.g., not adding in aromatic veggies for "stock 1" or "2" if I'm doing 3 stages).

Cool. I've not seen them, though I should. I didn't attend but on the timing of a late-addition of aromatics, CIA seems almost religious about it, IMO (adding in at last hour. It's in The Professional Chef, and I might have even read of it in Michael Ruhlman's Making of a Chef, though my memory is hazy). Veal is actually the only one I add it early, actually. I'm looking for sugars and some very background flavors, so don't mind the early and long simmer. I do both a light chicken stock for braising or deglazing, and a stronger dedicated chicken stock simmered 3 hours. On these, the aromatics only get an hour (less, on the light one, as I go to 45 minutes and out. Same for any jus, as these only get an hour, or less, depending).

Hi all, I recently picked up the book. I wasn't aware of the plentiful use of xanthan, carrageenan, etc in the restaurants. Has this been their practice for a long time? The veal stock I found curious. In the leading paragraphs of the liaison section he discusses adding in aromatics near the end, rather than post-initial skimming (or twice for their "master method" - yet the paragraph above mentions only once, with an hour to go). Yet the veal stock as described in the book is their traditional method in three parts, with aromatics given 24 hours or so, effectively, and no added gelatin or other liaisons. So, just curious. Errata? Anyone read the book, and have some thoughts?

Hello all, I've been around a long while but almost feel a re-introduction is in order. I've PTSD and as it turns out a longstanding total body neuro issue is a precursor condition, about 90% within the next 5-10 years, to Parkinson's. So debilitating pain and serious mental clouding means I feel like a newbie again, again, etc. So sorry for any dropped conversations or posts....I have always loved this community. Enough on that. Perhaps a bit of background. have walls of books. Most have been unused tbh. I find myself returning to Keller, Ferrandi, regional French more than anything else. Especially over the last stretch, I find solace in leaving today and here for French cooking, dated at that. Certainly a top book is Peterson's Sauces. I've no grand ambitions left and only a narrow field, by choice. My question goes to the 2nd (I have) v. 4th. Thoughts, experiences. While here, I only know one chef personally who attended ESCF. I was accepted long ago (I cringe at my arrogance from posts here back then), but I know Bruce Sherman of Chicago attended, praised it highly. I don't see too much here. though more from a member here who attended (sorry, can't recall who) than the books, but has anyone enjoyed the ESCF text> I have their three. Just curious. Stay safe.