paul o' vendange

This is all great info, thanks you guys - Dave in particular, thanks for the link back to your thread. Awesome experiment. If PaulRaphael happens to see this I know he loves to make stock in a PC, hopefully he'll chime in. I have a massive one capable of handling 5L Erlenmeyer flasks (I used to use them for yeast propagation in brewing and other things), so.....thats a lot of bones! I'm such a freak. I find myself almost tearing at the flesh to abandon myself to another approach - almost using confirmation bias to find some old school French guys who don't use salt to "give permission" it's OK to stick with what I've always done. Almost all do. I'm screwed. It feels like I'm making a Tetrapak broth. Can't even begin to go from there to not religiously skimming every time a fleck pops up to the surface and embracing Ducasse's absolute neglect during the pendency of the simmer. And a stick of butter! The obsessive weirdo runs square up against the guy on the shoulder who slaps upside the head, "what's wrong with you? You're not cooking for anyone paying you anymore, freaking' try it!" I'm in need of gustatory counseling.

Thanks weinoo. I wondered about that. What do you think of his thing for white chicken stock to not skim at all? I'm not certain of my memory, but I think Judy Rogers might have felt the same way, removing fat in the frigo. Now that I think of it, she trained for a short while with the Troisgros brothers, and here's from their The Nouvelle Cuisine of Jean and Pierre Troisgros, on light chicken stock: (after adding the chicken)...bring to the boil gently and skim..." but then, after aromatics: "...make certain that it stays at a rolling boil for 45 minutes...." Unfortunately I only have the English translation so I guess it's possible that's a translation error but it sure seems specific. Weirdly they say right after "...45 minutes": "...skim off the fat as it rises to the surface. These two points [skimming, and the rolling boil] are important if you want to achieve a crystal-clear stock." Rolling boil with light chicken stock? Crystal clear? I don't get it at all. I understand from Steven and others that Ducasse has no problem with clear stocks and jus - with the butter giving it a beautiful sheen, without the lip-smacking unpleasantness of overly reduced stocks (after all these years, I'm moving in the same direction. Just for home and friends now). What are your thoughts?

I know he's been covered in terms of his interesting methods re stocks and jus - I don't have any of his Grand Livres, but do have his Flavors of France and have read on him throughout here in terms of his approaches, e.g., not skimming the chicken stock, jus perlé, etc. I've never tried his approach but I want to try all the stocks and jus in the index. I've always skimmed all stocks like a freak, for instance. Stumped how he would achieve clarity in his chicken stock but looking forward to it. The use of salt. See it universally here, and looked back to Chapel in his La Cuisine C'est Beaucoup Plus Que Les Recettes to see he, too, used salt. I vaguely recall Bocuse does the same but at least cautions on reducing and resultant saltier flavor (I think. I haven't read his Cuisine du Marché in a really long time). I never use salt in any stocks, jus, fumets, etc. Can anyone explain the reasoning? Does salt aid in the extraction of flavor? In general, I am very intrigued by Ducasse and have never really explored him in depth. I have his Atelier, Flavors of France, Bistro (and "Cooking School," not a fan). Outside his Grand Livres (which are way out of my range), any resources in particular you could recommend to get inside his methods (v. recipes; looking for commentary that aids learning his approach. French Laundryesque?). Thanks.

IIRC, it's also the method laid out by Jim Lahey. Never tried it but I'm intrigued. Also want to try using Caputo "Chef" and "Pizzeria" Type 00 flours.

Wish I could add a "delicious laughter" at the same time. 😁

I, um, want to eat this. Though the abalone has to be tough as boot leather and the scallops good for handball. Yet still I want to eat it. Help.

That's terrible news. Ann, I hope you're OK, I hope the injuries were fairly minor! You are very much in mind - heal well, and quickly.

I'm in the same boat JoNorvelle, haven't baked in a few months, I think it's been. First loaf "back," a "Rubaud" levain (70% BF, 18% WW - a 50:50 mix of home-milled hard spring and winter wheats, 9% spelt, 3% rye (both milled at home as well).

Thanks! I had it and sold it years ago, to my regret. I don't know why the book doesn't more love here in the States, anyway. I love my Ferrandi (and so many others), but this is such an amazing technical, teaching book. I had the French version but great to know of the deal. Thanks again!

I'm grateful for his many posts. Blessings to his loved ones and to his memory.

Thanks Paul, great info to go on. "Wa," LOL. "Wa (和) is a Japanese cultural concept usually translated into English as "harmony". It implies a peaceful unity and conformity within a social group in which members prefer the continuation of a harmonious community over their personal interests.[1][2] The kanji character wa (和) is also a name for "Japan; Japanese",[3] replacing the original graphic pejorative transcription Wa 倭 "dwarf/submissive people". Wa is considered integral to Japanese society and derives from traditional Japanese family values.[4] Individuals who break the ideal of wa to further their own purposes are brought in line either overtly or covertly, by reprimands from a superior or by their family or colleagues' tacit disapproval. Hierarchical structures exist in Japanese society primarily to ensure the continuation of wa.[5] Public disagreement with the party line is generally suppressed in the interests of preserving the communal harmony.[6] Japanese businesses encourage wa in the workplace, with employees typically given a career for life in order to foster a strong association with their colleagues and firm.[1][7] Rewards and bonuses are usually given to groups, rather than individuals, further enforcing the concept of group unity.[2]" Never knew of association with "Japan Japanese." Living in the Japanese (zen and martial training) temple, "wa" was a constant hound' - as uchideshi, we were expected to develop the keen sense of a given space, and move in all ways according to the "wa" of the room and those gathering in it. It was expected that such training also leads to "an unfettered mind," able to read situations responsively, without the need to rely on rational, and sticking, thought. Sharp things. Nothing sucks more than having a guy strike down kesagiri while you try to reason out your move.🤯

Great perspective. Thanks Paul. Very cool imagery on the "axe v. violin bow." That's one helluva selling point. Edit: Neglected to ask. Would you mind sharing the make of your gyuto? And do you happen to know, "wa" is one form of "harmony," as in, "please do not disrupt the wa of the room." Is this implied with the feel of the handle?

Brother! That's two of us! I'm sure I'll make the move to at least a gyuto at some point. Even my MAC utility knife is nice with its thin, sharp blade. The Goldhamster heft is stout, agreed. I don't know if your handle is like this, but it also took some time (and blisters) for me to get used to the angled handle. Now that I've relied on it so long, though, it's natural to me. I don't know that I could ever use a santoku, though I know so many cooks like them. I also thought it would make a fine neck bone implement. And earned a dent (smaller, thank god ). Countless sharpenings later, it's barely evident. But learned my lesson. I use an F. Dick 7" cleaver. Though I'm so self conscious of our neighbors downstairs. They already love me for my levains and their 100's of FF's. I've always been curious about the Chinese cleaver, thanks for the idea. The F. Dick cleaver is about a kilo and has a rounded bevel edge, not sharp. TBH I love butchery and would love a good butcher's knife.

As much as I love later Rieslings, I wonder if fabritius needs a bit more acid bite to balance out the sweetness? I'd think Gruner would be great, as would a dry Riesling. A chardonnay, not exceedingly fat, but giving some roundness and depth to match the richer sweetness - I'd think less "sugary" sweet, and more caramelization? I've seen some suggestions for reds, but I haven't tried it and can't get a bead in my head.

I'm hopeless, man. 😆

I am, when I go through something like Craig Claibourne's Classical Cooking, and want to get really, really disappointed in myself. I will master 7 faces before I leave this mortal coil, dammit.

My chef's knife is an E. Schaaf Goldhamster. I don't remember named length but it's a large knife, 10" blade, 15.5" stem-to-stern. I use it for almost everything, including fine minces. I rarely use my paring knife - for some reason it's always felt weird in my hand, much more comfortable with the chef's knife. I use my Mac utility knife more than the paring knife. For turning I have a tourné knife.

Just came in. @JoNorvelleWalker, ecce morbus.

Yeah, I hear you. Funny, I was thinking about just that as I as typing it. Not always! One that does come to mind is a magret with corn crepes and Michigan sour cherry duck sauce. Do you mean his "tomato tatin?" Love it. Braised lamb shoulder for some friends.

Agreed. "If it grows together it goes together" is a line that really stuck (I think that's in Think Like a Chef?). I also have his The Craft of Cooking. Second recipe - Porchetta, from a piglet!

Similarly afflicted. 😬

A touching memory from his book is when he finishes up his stint as the chef to President DeGaulle. They bring him to a room and it was just Jacques, Mr. and Mrs. DeGaulle, thanking him for being their chef.

Totally agree. If I remember correctly, this two-volume set are the books of which he's most proud.

That makes sense. His illustrations are delightful.

I can't find the book right now but now you have me searching. I've forgotten - one blessing of a faulty memory, laughing twice, lol!