carswell

John, upthread you wrote "I have never seen anything in Parker's reviews or writings that indicates he does not like these reds." I've just cited chapter and verse where he indicates exactly that. What is it about "too vegetal for my taste," "I am not an admirer of these wines," "I am not fond of the wines of Chinon [arguably the region's top appellation for red wine]," etc. that you don't understand? Whether or not one agrees with him (I don't; you appear to) is immaterial to my point: Parker has clearly stated, and on more than one occasion, that he doesn't care for Loire reds except in atypical years like 1990 and 2003. Let's look at some facts here. The Loire is not known for its reds. Says who? Loire reds are extremely popular in France, good sellers here in Quebec and parts of Europe and much coveted by a certain set of discerning US wine geeks (for confirmation, see any board not dominated by Parkerovani or New World fanatics). The climate and soils (the terroir-- if you will) is not conducive to grapes achieving ripeness more vintages than not. This is not me or Parker but an accepted fact. Accepted by whom? The Loire's ripeness track record is at least as good as that of many other cool climate regions, including ones like Burgundy that make highly regarded reds. And it's not radically different from Bordeaux's (not talking degree days here but years in which acceptable ripeness levels are reached). Therefore, there is a reason that not many reds in any but the best (weatherwise) vintages are worth looking at. Not accepting your premise, I reject this conclusion. And, by the way, these days my Chinons from "weak" 1991 and 1993 are delivering much pleasure, something I wouldn't say about my Médocs from the same vintages. The reds often have overt herbaceous notes due to the lack of ripeness. In most vintages I don't find the wines herbaceous or vegetal. I suspect these are code words for people with Parkerish palates. Decoded: not overripe, not highly extracted, not jammy or gobby, not oaked. It's revealing that Parker's descriptions of Loire reds in the 4th edition guide never mention their desirable characteristics like minerals, forest floor, fine structure, fluid savour, food-friendliness, eh? The Reds from the Loire in the best vintages are pleasant wines with high acidity. I would add that Red Sancerre is also pleasant--I especially like these--but they are nowhere near the level of Burgundy or the cote Challonnaise in complexity or depth of flavor. I enjoy a good red Sancerre as much as anyone, but I wouldn't offer them up as model Loire reds. And that's setting aside that fact that comparisons (with other pinots) are intrinsically odious. So to Parker--he has clearly noted these facts and has many times recommended these wines. Really? I haven't paid close attention to Parker for years but I can't recall any enthusiastic recommendations. He always seems to be holding his nose, qualifying his recco ("I am not fond of the wines of Chinon, but that does not stop me from admiring some of the best producers"). I would challenge anyone to look at the quotes you have pulled out and say that Parker has no appreciation for what these wines are. He is clear when he states his preferences or lack of. He also points out those producers making good Loire reds. OK, I'll say it. Parker doesn't appreciate these wines for what they are. He is not a reliable guide to Loire reds. You will not read his tasting notes and come away understanding why so many people treasure them. If you went only by Parker, you'd be shocked at the number of times top French chefs and their sommeliers recommend Loire reds as the perfect match for their dishes. "...the red wines are suprisingly good..." then a note about the vegetal character of the wines. Most tasters would agreee these wines are, in fact, vegetal. This is an accepted fact about Cab Franc from the Loire. You're quoting out of context: those "surprisingly good" reds came from "one of the all-time greatest vintages," and even then he qualifies the statement with a "surprisingly." So, atypical wines are — surprise! — pretty good. The corollary: typical wines are — no surprise! — not so good. Also, please post the stats showing that most tasters (especially ones who haven't been led by RP/WS-school wine critics or nationalism to appreciate only highly extracted wines from warm-climate regions) think Loire reds are vegetal. This is, IMOP, the mark of a a good critic. Even when he misrepresents the wines? Even though he's holdiing them up to a single paradigm, the Parker 100-pointer? I would argue they are on target more often than not. As a longtime Loire lover, I wouldn't. But, hey, there's no disputing taste. To say that Parker "doesn't get Loire Reds" is simply not true. Well, by his own words, he doesn't care for them. And after examining the language he uses to describe them I think one can legitimately conclude he doesn't "get" them, can't bring himself to approach them on their own terms, can't stop himself from comparing them with Cheval Blanc or New World cab francs. Put Parker's notes alongside those of, say, Jacqueline Friedrich in A Wine and Food Guide to the Loire or Bettane & Desseauve's, and I think you'll see what I mean. Even setting aside his plodding phraseology, it is impossible to imagine Parker writing the following: That's the beginning of the Loire chapter in Hugh Johnson's Modern Encyclopedia of Wine, and it's interesting to note that the words vegetal and herbaceous appear nowhere in the lengthy text that follows.(A final comment. In years of taking part in online wine discussions, this is the only time I've allowed myself to get involved in a discussion of Parker. Personally, I long ago gave up on him, finding his taste in wine not in synch with my own, a state of affairs that renders his comments useless to me. This does not make me a Parker hater. The only resentment I bear toward him is due to the fact that his advocacy is one of the reasons favourite wines like Pichon-Lalande, Chave Hermitage and even Domaine de Trévallon have been priced out of my reach. I also worry about his impact on wine styles — the sweetening of Alsatian whites, the gobbifying of certain Bordeaux, the increasing number of Italian wines that don't taste like Italian wines. On the other hand, his dismissal of Loire reds and regions like the Jura and the Savoie have helped keep their wines affordable. I first posted in this thread because you made a claim that, in my view, was unsupportable. I provided quotes that, I feel, proved my point and I didn't add any comments of my own. Your defensiveness has led me, with this post, to break my No Parker rule. I don't intend to do so again. All of which is to say, I probably won't be continuing this discussion. No offence intended.)

All quotes taken from the 4th edition of Parker's Wine Buying Guide. Anjou: "In particular, Cabernet Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon, while admired by some, are too vegetal for my taste." Bourgeuil: "More popular in France than in America, Bourgueil makes a fruity, raspberry-scented and -flavored wine that should be drunk in the first 5–6 years of life. The problem is that unless the vintage is exceptionally ripe ... these wines are strikingly vegetal." Cabernet d'Anjou: "The name suggests a red wine, but in essence this is a rosé that tends to be herbaceous and sweet. I am not an admirer of these wines." Châteaumeillant: "The only wines I have ever tasted from this backwater were inexpensive, but pathetic, washed-out examples that reminded me of diluted Beuajolais." Chinon: "Made from Cabernet Franc, in exceptionally ripe years such as 1990 it possesses abundant herb-tinged raspberry fruit. In other years, Chinon wines are intensely acidic and vegetal. I am not fond of the wines of Chinon, but that does not stop me from admiring some of the best producers." Côtes d'Auvergne: "This is another red wine VDQS making strawberry- and cherry-flavored, light, insipid wines from Gamay." Haut-Poitou: "The bad news is that the red wines ... are nasty, raw, lip-stinging wines with little flavor, but plenty of acidity and vegetal characteristics." Sancerre: "A small amount of red wine, which I find disappointing, is made from Pinot Noir." Saumur: "... Saumur-Champigny, which many feel produces good fresh red wines — although I do not agree ..." 1990 vintage: "The red wines are also surprisingly good (I have a strong bias against most of them because of their overt vegetal character), but because of the drought and superripeness they are less herbaceous than usual ..." His 1995–1996 buying strategy mentions only whites. The vintage guide discusses reds only in passing and, for several vintages, not at all.

Well, actually, kilgore, I raised the possibility at the start of this thread. Perhaps I was reading too much into the referred-to blogger's comments: In any case, a quality cake shop is a welcome arrival. Here's ...an endless banquet's short report with a couple of pics.

Are you free to disclose your source, Maeve? You may be right but I was once told by one of the Park Ave. store's cooks that the frites were fried in a bovine-equine blend whose exact composition depended on factors like availability and price. Also, the Le Devoir and Revue MTL articles archived on their website mention the fat of both animals. However, like my info, they may be out of date.

allan's not exaggerating, Kenk. Yes, there's no disputing taste. But there's also no denying that Caffe Art Java is one of the few places in town that gets the four M's and the W (they treat their water) right. Though some may prefer the darker roast used at Cafe Italia to CAJ's lighter, Northern Italian-style Leftist Blend, their espresso is at least as good as the city's top contenders and probably better by objective measures such as crema, texture and body. The milk-based drinks are simply without rival in Montreal, if only for the reason that no one else produces such perfect microfoam. Consistency is another of their strong points, something you can't say about many espresso bars, even the good ones. These days, I find myself making detours and rearranging my schedule just so I can drop by. The coffee's really that good.

Here's a map. The closest metro station is Lionel-Groulx.

After punching out for the evening, I received this PM from another member. Here's hoping my correspondent chimes in with details about the menu and experience.

For some reason, this and the wine bar thread remind me of a t-shirt I saw the other day. The message on it read My tastes are simple:Only the best

Amazing how quick those in the know have been to reply to several well-meaning requests for information. Thanks, folks! Did my regular circuit out to Lachine and back this evening. Just before I left, someone on, ahem, Chowhound posted enough information on Joe Beef for me to be able to situate it. Since it's near the Lachine Canal bike path, I detoured to take a gander and found this card (a visual pun on the nabe's name, Little Burgundy), along with some gourds, in a bucket attached to the wall near the front door. Specifically, the resto is on the north side of Notre Dame between Charlevoix and Vinet, directly across from the Corona theatre. It looks to be a small space with the menu written on big blackboards that dominate the room. Sweaty, clad in biking shorts and getting looks from some of the beautiful people (the place was full at 10 p.m.), I didn't hang around long enough to take notes. The helpful Chowhounder says the joint is open three days a week, including Friday. Seems strange that Monday would be one of the other two, especially if, as the card implies, they specialize in fish and shellfish.

Sure, bottles of expensive wine sell well at Montreal SAQ stores. And in restos during the Grand Prix. Aside from that, Montrealers are as frugal with their wine budgets as with their resto budgets. (Case in point: bottles of Chave's 1997 Hermitage stayed on Jongleux Café's list for weeks, despite selling for considerably less than the US retail price.) I've heard details of two business models for wine bars in Montreal; neither concluded the concept would work with expensive wines (see also wizpers' latest remarks). Personally, I think the only way you'd get sustainable numbers of people to plunk for pricey plonk is if you offered tastes of wines they could acquire — the try-before-you-buy principle. But as you point out, sought-after wines often sell out in a matter of days, if not hours, which defeats both the principle and the purpose. But, hey, if you build it, maybe they'll come. In your shoes, though, I'd ask myself — as someone willng to spend $100s on a litre of olive oil and many $10s on a kilo of coffee beans — if my perception of the prices typical Montrealers are prepared to bear wasn't a bit skewed.

Do you mean who makes the best bagels or which resto serves the best bagels? If the former, you'll have to decide for yourself. The field is narrowed to two candidates: St-Viateur and Fairmount. Each has its partisans. Prompted by rave reviews on this and other boards, I've recently bought several dozen from Fairmount and remain convinced that, despite their worrisome trend toward obesity, St-Viateur's are superior: less sweet, breadier and not smothered in seeds. If you're asking about restos, I won't be much help. There's a St-Viateur Café a couple of blocks east of the factory on St-Viateur (I've never been). I believe Beauty's serves St-Viateur bagels, too. Bagels Etc. reportedly sources theirs from neither factory. Bummer.

Whoa, Joe. While I see your point (I too was a student of linguistics in a former life), is it really applicable in this context? I mean, we're talking about English spelling: Abandon hope all ye who enter! As for doubling the c to ensure it is pronounced as k, fine but can you point to any other example using this root (Greek deka) where such doubling occurs? And there are plenty of cases in English when the context would indicate that a c should be pronounced as s but it isn't. Heck, here in our own backyard: Quebecers is at least as common as Quebeckers (which spelling drives me quackers). Similarly, prefixes like de- are usually slapped onto words without otherwise affecting their orthography (at least I'm having trouble thinking of cases were they do), so it wouldn't be 'deccaf' even if the e wasn't "tense enough to hold its own," would it? Phonemes at 50 paces!

L'Express's kitchen is open until 1 or 2 a.m. Leméac has a great special between 10 p.m. and midnight. Wine bar Bû is open till 1 a.m. and serves a nice selection of small dishes with their wines.

Agreed. This was driven home last weekend when we ordered the Champagne flight at Bû. The top-of-the-line wine, Larmandier-Bernier, V.V. de Cramant, Grand cru 2000, was poured from the tail end of a bottle and tasted oxidized. A replacement glass, poured from a new bottle, didn't. In other words, turnover was low on this $20 a glass Champagne. How low would it have been if the wine had been a $50 a glass Krug or Salon?

Dating myself here... When I was at McGill, there was only one Peel Pub (corner of Peel and Ste-Catherine) and it was a gay tavern often referred to as the Real Rub.

Sorry but I don't know of any local roasters that will roast beans they didn't sell. And most roasters' machines are designed to work with large volumes, not 2-3 lbs. (Some roasters may have smaller machines for test batches though.) All I can suggest is that you ask local roasters/retailers (Coffee Union, Terra, Faema, etc.) or post a query on CoffeeGeek's Eastern Canada forum or alt.coffee, where a number of Montrealers hang out. Failing that, you could always roast them youself (don't do this indoors unless you have stupendously good ventilation). Decent home machines can be had for under $200 and high-end machines for 2-3 times that. It's also fairly easy to modify certain models of hot-air popcorn poppers; if you pick up one at a garage sale, you're looking at a total investment of $10. See Sweet Maria's for reviews of machines and some useful how-to documentation. It's got good reviews and the grind is reportedly adjustable. I'm not big on superautos, though, so I haven't been tracking the machine, nor do I have any hands-on experience with it.

Here's a scalable map (the linked-to address is that of Le Marché des Saveurs, the Quebec products store located on the southeast corner of the market). The market should still be going full blast in early October, especially if we don't get a major frost between now and then. You probably won't find much in the way of corn, raspberries, blueberries and other summer produce; on the other hand, prepare to have your mind boggled by flawless cauliflowers bigger than your head. When the really cold weather comes, the open air stalls give way to a large winter enclosure, but that probably won't happen until November. All the shops surrounding the farmers' stalls — the butchers, bakers, fish mongers, cheese stores, green grocers, spice purveyors, cafés, etc. — are permanent.

Interesting. Care to name some names? I tasted a half dozen or so before giving up on the 2003 vintage. Some were OK (e.g. Château de Poncié, Château de la Pierreux regular and reserve), others were horrid (the normally delicious Brun L'Ancien Terres dorées). Though the vintage got rave reviews from some critics, I find myself siding with those who've declared it a disaster that produced unbalanced, fruit-heavy wines short on freshness, length and the mineral savour that, for me at least, is the appellation's primary attraction (detailed TNs on three wines here). I've had a lot more luck with gamay and gamay blends from the Loire in 2003.

Can't speak from an Australian standpoint but the term has been adopted by many winegeeks, especially those who participate in Web-based fora. In that context, I've seen it used only as a synonym for sweet white wine.

While I'd be interestend in seeing a sketch of your design, I can't imagine a lift pot that would be mechanically simpler than a press pot. Also, with the pot at counter or table height, pressing is physically less demanding than pulling, which would be counted an advantage by, say, those with arthritic hands. It's more secure, too, since you're pushing perpendicularly against a fixed surface. (In decades of pressing, I've never had the pot slip from under my hand.) And in a world where gravity is a force to be reckoned with, I'm not sure I see the advantage of lifting, since the particles have a natural tendency to sink (make two identical press pots of coffee; after pressing, pour one immediately but let the other sit for a couple of minutes before pouring; the former will be sludgier than the latter). What I'd love to see someone invent is a press pot that doesn't occasionally squirt hot coffee from the spout during pressing. There are. Think add-on. You can buy a nylon mesh filter that removes quite a bit of dust-type sediment and is especially recommended for coffee ground with "whirly blade" grinders. See Sweet Maria's French Press page (scroll about 2/3 of the way down to Nylon Fine Sediment Filterscreen).

According to the enjoyable blog ...an endless banquet, a new top-flight cake/pastry shop is set to open on Park Ave. on Sunday: Cocoa Locale 4807 Park Ave. (corner Villeneuve) Tuesday–Sunday, 11–6ish Please report any sightings/tastings here.

All other things being equal, organic is preferable for preparations that involve zests or unpeeled fruit.

Forgot the easiest and quickest of all. Place thin (1/4 to 1/2-inch) slices of baguette on a baking sheet. Drizzle with a bit of olive oil. On each slice place a square of good quality bittersweet chocolate. Bake until the chocolate just begins to melt. Drizzle with a few more drops of olive oil. Sprinkle with fleur de sel or coarse sea salt. Very nice way to end a Spanish meal.

Learn to make zabaglione. The traditional stuff is wonderful on its own with a tuile or other store-bought cookie. Or replace the marsala with Grand Marnier; pile raspberries or orange sections in individual ramekins; top with the zabaglione; run under the broiler until the zab begins to brown. Or replace the marsala with calvados or marc de gewurztraminer and use it to dollop baked apples. Etc. Speaking of baked apples, they take about 10 minutes to prepare and can bake while you do other things (including eating dinner). Play with fillings: walnuts, raisins, crumbled pound cake; maple sugar and butter; dried cranberries and pecans; etc. Other fruit is also wonderful roasted. For example, fill the pit cavities of halved peaches with butter and brown sugar and a bit of rum. Bake until brown around the edges. Top with amaretti if you like. Am pretty sure I've seen the recipe for the famous NY Times plum torte floating around eG. It's easy to throw together in 20 minutes, bakes for an hour, is amenable to many fruits, can be made ahead of time and is always a hit. Here you go (thank Google): Plum Torte. Plums make a great topping for ice cream. For example, rinse, pit and chop some plums. Melt a knob of butter in a sauce pan. Add the plums, some chopped crystallized ginger, sugar to taste and a splash of water or white wine. Cook until the fruit softens. Cool and serve over vanilla ice cream. Or leave out the ginger and serve over ginger ice cream. Play with other flavourings (pink peppercorns, cinnamon, etc.), throw in some slivered almonds at the last minute, use bourbon or kirsch or slivovitz instead of water; replace the plum with pineapple and serve over coconut ice cream — you get the idea. Pear omelet. Peel, core and quarter 2-3 bosc pears. Brown them in butter in an omelet pan with a tablespoon of sugar. Pour over 2-3 eggs beaten. Lift up the edges to let the uncooked egg run to the bottom of the pan. Fold the omelet in the pan and slip it onto a warmed platter. Sprinkle with another tablespoon of sugar. Drizzle with a jiggerful of pear eau-de-vie (e.g. poire williams), cognac or a mixture of the two. Ignite with a match. As soon as the flames die, divide into three portions and serve. You can also replace the pears with apples and the poire williams with calvados. My fallback is Marcella Hazan's "chimney sweep's" sundae: scoop of vanilla ice cream in a bowl; top with a tablespoon or two of scotch; sprinkle with a teaspoon of finely ground coffee beans (preferably an espresso blend).

Ahem. In the recent 9 days in Montreal thread... The two classic bistros mentioned are L'Express and Au Petit Extra. Leméac, probably my favourite bistro these days, is open on Sundays and Mondays.