caroline

The funny kind of rice being Uncle Ben´s, I take it. Wesza, I hope you're printing out all these stories and assembling them for a book. Rachel

Ah, gau. Good stuff. But as Sun-Ki says, hell on the dental work. Rachel

Thanks Sun-Ki, I'll pass the information along. And if Herbicidal is still checking the thread, one more word on rice. Most of us in the US are rice ignoramuses. We are learning lots about great breads. But we don't discern the fine differences between Japanese and Chinese rice, young and old rice, different brands of rice. Not surprising when the shelves are loaded with rice-a-roni and Uncle Ben's. Good rice is grown in the US but it goes to those who know. And they are very very picky. I had a journalist friend in Hawaii, Japanese-American, who had won all kinds of scholarships and prizes. But when her parents came to visit, she fretted endlessly about her inability to cook their rice to exactly the right point, Rachel

Browniebaker, I second Sun-Ki in thanking you for filling us in on Taiwanese butter mochi. You know, I'm beginng to think that maybe bibingka really is a south Asian creation inspired by Iberian techniques. And I suspect the Dutch (whose cuisine when they went to Asia was after all an outpost of Iberian cuisines) also had a role. But I agree, Sun-Ki, bibingka is one of the outstanding culinary mysteries, Rachel

Herbacidal, Let me have one more go at rice in Hawaii. Yes, it is rice East Asian style that sticks together. In Hawaii it is ALWAYS available. We're talking about foods we miss and even on the mainland you can only get this if you go to an Asian restaurant. In Mexico, where I live, just forget it. But people in Hawaii are very picky about rice. Jasmin rice is longer grained and has a stronger flavor. And (correct me if I am wrong Sun-Ki and Wesza) people in the islands also notice the difference between rice cooked Japanese style and rice cooked Chinese style. Sun-Ki and Wesza. How I wish that it were possible to access that story of Okinawan restaurants. But I am forwarding what you have sent to a young woman I met in Argentina. She is third-generation Okinawan , an anthropologist, and keenly interested in how Okinawans adapted to/contributed to new traditions in new places. And Wesza, your peaches are ready. Send me an email or personal message and I'll send them off to you when I get to the mainland next month. They may not be what you remembered but they are good. And consider moving to Mexico. We badly need some of the skills you have with restaurants! Rachel

This is what I love egullet for. It's fascinating to learn about butter mochi from other parts of the world. Surely it has to have been created in an attempt to use rice flour in European cake recipes. And bibingka with its Goan connections seems to me a much earlier invention and a wonderful puzzle for someone to work out, Rachel

Thanks to all, and particularly CDH, for clarifying the issues about trademarks, locality, etc. Since so much of the discussion concerns Europe and the US, I thought it might be worth throwing in something about the Argentine situation. I'm reporting from an editorial in the magazine of Club del Vino, one of the best places to try wines in Buenos Aires. Here's their line (with apologies if I've got it wrong). Chile is not a great producer of sparkling wine. Argentina is. Much of it is produced (nice twist) by French firms in the province of Mendoza. Now the Spanish firms Codorniú and Freixenet have joined them. Now all this can happily be sold to local markets. Champagne as it is happily called appears to be very popular in Argentina particularly with dessert. But the EU is making agreements with non EU export markets to prevent import of wines using names such as champagne. For example, they are, according to this, subsidising South African wine producers with the proviso that SAfrica not import (say) Argentine sparkling wines called champagne. I have to admit that at this point my head begins to spin at the machinations of the international beverage/wine companies. I'd be grateful for anyone who can guide me through this laberinth, Rachel

Wesza, I find it hard to imagine that anyone can beat your story, Rachel

Joiei, I've just returned from a longish stay in Buenos Aires. You are going to love your time there. It's a quite marvelous city. I think Anil and others can help you more than I can with restaurants as we had our own apartment and didn't eat out that much. In fact, horrible to admit, many of my meals were cheese (good cheese there) and crackers (not soda crackers but my favorite English-style cream crackers) bolted down in front of the refrigerator as my work schedule just didn't fit Argentine meal times. Breakfast is simply coffee con leche with a sweet roll or cookie. Then, as your guide books will tell you, there's a big meal at 2-3 and another at 10-11. As guides we found two very useful resources. Any downtown newspaper stand will carry laminated maps. Invest in the two labelled compras (shopping) and restaurantes. Much more useful than you could imagine. Whoops, I have to go, but more on food shopping, food customs, etc tomorrow, Rachel

Elizabeth Toupin's book is one of the very best of the books written about Hawaii's foods. And she is a wonderful, interesting and successful woman who ended up as as Dean at Tufts University. Poi cocktail is not really a cocktail, I think. Poi is incredibly digestible and was thus widely used in earlier days in Hawaii for sickly babies and others with digestive problems, Rachel

Yes, Wesza, I am in crying need of a therapeutic trip to the islands. I never realized how much I would miss them. And thanks for the comments on oxtail soup. You are much more expert than I am but although I can see the Korean input, I don't quite get the Okinawan input since I associate Okinawan food so much with pork. But that probably shows how little I know. In any case it's a wonderful soup and I loved being able to get it everywhere as you say. And what are the Mexican peaches you are talking about? I'm going to the US soon and could send you some. What I think of are the small peaches in syrup that are so much tastier than the canned peaches in the US. And Herbicidal, what's important about the rice in Hawaii (and I didn't know about the talc until Wesza chipped in) is that is medium short grain and sticks together. It's not the long grain, fluffy-style rice preferred on the mainland. If you are buying (say) a jasmine-style Thai rice you would not be able to prepare the rice favored in Hawaii. Incidentally these rices are exported to Japan. Sun-Ki, you have one lucky family food-wise. As for shave ice, I brought a tiny hand-cranked shave ice machine with me to Mexico but it only works for one or two servings. What else? Well that will have to wait for another day, Rachel

Oh my goodness, Sun-Ki, oh that I were still in Hawaii. And with you as my guide. This would be something that absolutely had to be tried, Rachel

This is a medium to short grain rice that cooks to make a dish in which the grains cling together. The main varieties used in Hawaii come from California (Calrose, Hinode, Diamond, etc), People buy them by the twenty pound bag. Rice is always available. Consumption is about 60 pounds a year per person (the mainland, nine pounds). When I asked students who had been to Washington DC what most interested/surprised/intrigued them, they responded without a second thought, "No rice at McDonald's." So much for the Congress, White House, etc. Rachel

Sharon, Argentina has a great black cake. Many myths about its origin but probably Welsh, Rachel

That's interesting about the batter-covered chiles en nogada in Puebla, Sharon. My impression talking to a variety of Mexicans from local housewives to Mexico City foodies to chefs is that most people would agree with you and ExtraMSG that the batter is too much and just serve them with the sauce and a white rice. Certainly that's the way I prefer them. I suppose the person who would be able to tell us more about this than anyone else is Ricardo Muñoz who wrote a splendid book, Los chiles rellenos en Mexico (which unfortunately I don't have because I didn't buy it the minute I saw it and like all Mexican books, if you don't grab 'em when you see them you've probably lost the chance for ever). On a related matter, I see more and more chiles rellenos of all types wrapped in hojaldre (puff pastry) instead of the batter. I guess it's easier because getting that batter to stick and come out just right is tricky. But if there's to be a covering I prefer the batter. I think this is a new trend in Mexican cooking though I'm not sure. Certainly hojaldre has been around since the Spanish arrived but I don't think it was used this way until recently, Rachel

Herbacidal, Nothing in your first quote but if you're referring to the oxtail soup it's a clear Chinese soup with the oxtail in it and a few peanuts. It's a bit hard to navigate but light and delicious. Try mochi when you get the chance. Lots of people find it tasteless and don't like the chewy texture but if you do like the texture it's great. And thinly wrapped around small balls of ice cream, specially green tea ice cream, it makes a wonderful contrast. Sad to say, I believe this was a California invention not a Hawaii one. And yes, the sandwiches from the Bah-le chain are banh mi. And apple bananas are small and have a clear taste and non-woolly texture, so much better than normal supermarket bananas. Rachel

Oh and interesting that the Sia's continue to be so distinguished in pediatrics. And of course that would have given added credibility to Mary Sia's book. Though interestingly it is a very practical book and very much home not banquet cooking. Rachel

Well, I have resolved to actually try using my copy which has been sitting on my shelves for years. But it raises an interesting if rather abstract question that applies not just to Hawaii but to other areas with immigrant populations. And that is, how much does the cooking of the immigrants change to keep up with changes in (or new information about) the cooking in their country of origin. here we have Mary Sia coming back from Bejing and (according to her son) adding northern dishes to her cookbook and to her classes thus enriching the repertoire of the Hawaii Chinese from Canton. I have the impression that the same kind of thing happened with the Japanese in Hawaii but never had the chance to nail it down, Rachel

Anyone remember seeing Mary Sia's Chinese Cookbook (1956) in its spiral binding and yellow cover published by the University of Hawaii Press? Jackie Newman who has the largest collection of English-language cookbooks in world once told me that this was one of the best. Now in the latest issue of her journal on Chinese food, Flavor and Fortune, there's an article by her son, Calvin Sia. it's the story of how his mother, born in Hawaii to parents who were both physicians, took a degree in Home Economics at UH, married and lived with her husband in Beijing for fifteen years, then returned to Hawaii in the late 1930s when conditions there became dangerous, and taught Chinese cooking at the YWCA, and to the military, university and many local people, as well as offering tours of Chinatown. Calvin Sia is Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Hawaii. And I never knew when I was there. But the more I learn about food in Hawaii (thanks Wesza and all the rest of you) the more fascinating it is, Rachel

Oh so many things, though I guess some of them would count as ethnic rather than local. Rice, Hawaii-Japanese style Oxtail soup The incredible pork buns at Kirin. No, not manapua. These are like dollar-sized pita breads with sesame seeds on the outside that you cut in half and pile in a ground pork and mustard green (?) stuffing. The Ala Moana food court. OK, so it's not all great but just compare it to a mainland food court. It has real food. Bitter melon in any way, shape or form Malasadas (though I can make some fairly decent ones) Mochi--love that texture. And mochi ice cream. The lady who sells (or used to sell) a noodle soup with a skewer of roast duck at the entry to the newer market in Chinatown. The Sunday breakfast of my dreams. Halo-halo, so improbable, so good. Ba-Le sandwiches. Tried some of the same name in Austin from a grubby, horrid place. Not at all the same. Apple bananas. Lychees still warm from the tree. Oh and lots more but that's a start, Rachel

Ah, but come and try Mexican ponches. Sheer heaven Rachel

The McDonald's in Buenos Aires have coffee bars in front. I assume they do it because otherwise they could not compete with the confiterias on every corner all of which offer excellent coffee and cakes. I did not have a chance to sample the coffee but the equipment looked just fine. The torte-type cakes looked excellent and the arm chair seating very comfortable. For what it's worth, they also deliver, Rachel

I think some of the blame for pineapple and Hawaii has to go to Jim Dole and his advertizing team early in the last century. Their decision to associate pineapple and Hawaii was a brilliant marketing stroke. In fact, I bet a map of the world that showed the places where Dole pineapple was marketed would be pretty much identical to a map that showed the places where anything containing pineapple was labelled Hawaiian. Hawaiian pizza is very popular in Mexico. In Argentina where there's no sign that Dole ever penetrated it's called pizza caribe. Rachel

Karen, That sounds like a wonderful position. Neiman Marcus was still just a planner's dream when I left Hawaii. But when I get back there I'll have to sample your work. Rachel

Sun-Ki, I'm no expert on the economics of farmers' markets as tourist destinations. But I'd have thought that tourists would want something a little more exotic than simply the stuff they can get on the west coast. But would it be worthwhile for a Filipino farmer with a handkerchief sized lot to invest in a stall at a big farmers' market. As you say this touches national issues. When is it worth someone selling at a farmers' market? Anyone know anything about this? Rachel