slkinsey
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Interesting that you say that, Russ. I have to say that my experience is a little different. I can't say that I can immediately put my finger on a distinctive flavor, but artisinal dry pasta does taste different from the industrial stuff to me. Here is the example I had in mind when I started the referenced thread: I didn't have much in the pantry or much time, so I cooked up around a pound of Setaro ditali and dressed them with a half cup of chicken stock, some butter and some whole parsley leaves.
Now, this is an "emergency" dish I have made before with other brands of dry pasta. It has never been much more than filling -- certainly never interesting. This time, however, I couldn't stop eating it. It was delicious! I'm sure it had more flavor than it would had I eaten the pasta completely unadorned, but I wouldn't say that it tasted of either butter or chicken stock and I'm not sure I would describe the pasta's function in this dish as primarily one of conveying flavor. So it tasted of something, and definitely something different (and better!) than the De Cecco I had normally used. Would I have discerned as large a difference in flavor between Setaro and Latini as I tasted between Setaro and De Cecco? That's harder to say.
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I do a tasting menu every year for Thanksgiving dinner. It is a lot of work, but the key is planning ahead (especially concerning dinnertime logistics) and also making as many things ahead of time as you can. Making sure the portions are small enough is also important
This is my Thanksgiving dinner from last year.
Assorted Crudités
Prosecco di Valdobbiadene Rustico, Viticoltori Nino Franco, NV
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Kumamoto Oyster On The Half-Shell With Cucumber Granita
Muscadet de Sevre et Maine sur Lies, Cuvee Vielles Vignes, Domaine Clos des Briords, 2002
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Cauliflower Soup With Seared Diver Scallop And Curry Oil
Saumur Blanc “La Papareille,” Domaine Saint-Vincent, 2002
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Mixed Herb Salad With Shrimp Ceviche
Saumur Blanc “La Papareille,” Domaine Saint-Vincent, 2002
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Toasted Corn And Stilton Soufflé
Sautéed Brussels Sprouts With Guanciale and Chive/Oregano Vinaigrette
Bourgogne Rouge, Domaine Alain Hudelot-Noellat, 2000
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Lemon-Thyme Sorbet
Moscato d'Asti “Vigneto Biancospino,” Azienda Agricola Dante Rivetti, Piemonte, 2002
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Turkey Two Ways With Cornbread Dressing, Foie Gras And Black Truffle Carpaccio
Coteaux du Languedoc Pic Saint-Loup “Le Rollier,” Domaine Mas Foulaquier, 2001
Sonoma Valley Red Wine “Albarello,” H. Coturri & Sons, 2001
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Bourbon Bread Pudding
Cranberry Cheesecake
Pecan Tart
Coffee
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Palmiers and Chocolate Truffles
Grappa, Scotch, Bourbon, Etc.
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This might shock you, but in her new book, Marcella Says . . ., Santa Marcella says that for some dishes, factory-made pasta is the only way to go.
All dry pasta is factory-made. What I think she's saying is that fresh pasta is not necessarily better than dry pasta, and on that point I agree. In "Essentials" she says, "the boxed, dry pasta one refers to as factory-made. . ." and also ". . .for many dishes, factory-made pasta is the better choice. . ."
What makes Latini factory-made pasta different from Ronzoni factory-made pasta is that the Ronzoni factory, process and ingredients are different from the Latini factory, process and ingredients.
And while I could be remembering wrong, she might even say that DeCecco is a good brand. Anyway, I know it's my favorite.De Cecco is, IMO, the best mass-production ("industrial") dry pasta -- so I totally agree with your tastes there. But also IMO, there is such a world of difference between De Cecco and e.g. Setaro that I'll never go back to De Cecco... not while I can get Setaro for five bucks a kilo. Seriously, go the Italian store at Chelsea Market some time and pick up a kilo of Setaro vermicelli. Serve it with some good butter and nothing else. I bet you'll never want to go back.
Yea, but compared to what? And who is doing the testing? I bet if it was you and me doing the testing, it might not rate so high.
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I'm not wondering what brand you tend to use the most because it's reasonably priced and available in your neighborhood, etc. I'm talking about the brand of dry pasta you like more than any other.
Everyone I know, even those who aren't all that wild about pasta, can immediately taste the difference between industrial dry pasta and artisinal dry pasta. I also find it's true that many pasta dishes that would be uninteresting with industrial dry pasta (e.g., penne in bianco) are wonderful with artisinal dry pasta.
So... my favorites are Setaro and Rustichella d'Abruzzo.
I also like Latini, and I always have a soft spot for something from Le Marche. But I have to admit that I have some trouble with their strand pasta. Latini short/tubular pasta always cooks just right for me. But Latini long/strand pasta seems to take forever to become tender, and often ends up gummy and overly al dente at the same time.
What are your favorites, and why? Are there any I'm missing that I should be sure to check out?
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When cooked dry, I understand there is a difference in taste. But when its been braising for a while, anyway its going to get the flavor from all of the spices/broth etc, will there be that much difference in tase?
Sure. When braised for any appreciable length of time, the white meat will be dry and tough whereas the dark meat will be moist and tender.
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Dark meat has so much more flavor, I can't imagine any context in which I wouldn't prefer it. I think it's especially true in the contect of most curry dishes, if you want to have any chicken flavor at all come out among the many other flavors. Also, since one may cook dark meat substantially longer than white meat chicken, this offers more of an opportunity for the flavors to marry. For me, I only tend to use white meat chicken when I am going for a quick cooking and want to play up its inherrent tenderness.
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Suck to you and me is unfortunately perhaps acceptable to someone else.
Good point, my friend. If I were you, I'd probably pick one of the decent-looking sets on overstock. It'll undoubtedly be an improvement over what you describe as the current state of affairs. Or, you could put together your own set of knives from Ikea. -
How many pieces does she want? Also, when you say you want a "set" for <$75, does this have to include a knife block?
If you're talking, say, chef's knife, paring knife, bread knife and 6-8 steak knives for under 75 bucks, I think it will be diofficult to find anything that doesn't suck. Your best bet is probably to go on to overstock.com and buy one of their <$75 sets. The only "brand" I see there right now is Chicago Cutlery, which makes some okay stuff -- but anything they offer for a cock bottom price on overstock won't really be reflective of their overall quality.
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Sounds very tasty, Elie. I hope you post pictures soon.
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Some interesting new data has come up with respect to restaurant and bar smoking bans. This article, which was recently published in the Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine (46(9):887-905, September 2004. Repace, James MSc) and covered in many newspapers (Newsday, for example) had the following to report:
Real-time measurements were made of respirable particle (RSP) air pollution and particulate polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PPAH), in a casino, six bars, and a pool hall before and after a smoking ban. Secondhand smoke contributed 90% to 95% of the RSP air pollution during smoking, and 85% to 95% of the carcinogenic PPAH, greatly exceeding levels of these contaminants encountered on major truck highways and polluted city streets. This air-quality survey demonstrates conclusively that the health of hospitality workers and patrons is endangered by tobacco smoke pollution.This would seem to put several of the key health-related anti-ban arguments to rest. It was especially interesting to read that air filtration systems can't exchange air fast enough to effectively reduce smoke levels.
I also found this emphatically debunked the argument that smoky bar/restaurant air can't be all that bad compared to normal levels of air pollution in cities like NYC:
Repace found an average level of respirable particles of 231 micrograms, or millionths of a gram, per cubic meter of air in the eight Delaware venues. That's 15 times the 15-microgram U.S. Environmental Protection Agency limit for outdoor air, 49 times the rush-hour average on Interstate 95 in Wilmington and even tops the 199-microgram rush-hour level at Baltimore Harbor Tunnel tollbooths.The eight venues' average PPAH level was 134 nanograms, or billionths of a gram, per cubic meter -- five times the level in the air outside, which Repace also tested. By comparison, the average rush hour levels of PPAHs on Interstate 95 in Wilmington and in Boston's Roxbury neighborhood, heavily polluted by diesel and truck emissions, were 7 and 18 nanograms, respectively.
Levels of both cancer-causing substances dropped 90 percent or more after the smoking ban in all locations tested, with the air quality in the venues nearly indistinguishable from outside air.
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Some interesting points have been made all around.
I think most of us would agree that cocktail mixing skills and general knowledge are at a very low level among working bartenders, to the extent that they are practically nonexistent in the average bartender. Taking this one step further, I would argue that there is far more mixological expertise and knowledge in the amateur cocktail enthusiast community than there is among working bartenders, by and large. This is largely a reflection of the fact that the vast majority of bar customers do not drink cocktails and thus do not require or value mixological skills. The average bar is not a cocktail bar. People like Dale DeGroff and Gary Regan and Audrey Saunders are so important precisely because they are the exceptions, and cocktail evangelists in the professional community.
The cocktail craft is making a comeback compared to where it was 10 or 15 years ago for sure, but the reality remains that a wide variety of well crafted cocktails is not in demand at the average bar. The average bar does the vast majority of its business in beer, shots and no-brainer mixed drinks like G&Ts, 7&7s, frozen premixed Margaritas from the slush machine, Screwdrivers, Bloody Marys, etc. In some cities the cocktail scene has developed to the extent that "regular" bars and restaurant bars are increasingly offering a limited selection of classic and new classic real cocktails. But few other cities are in the same category as NYC, SF and NO in this respect -- and even in these leading cities, the average bar is still a "beer and shots" place.
So, what does the owner of the average bar want? He wants to make money. And, in order to make money he is going to hire people with the kind of skills that help him make money. Since mixological skills are not important, he considers other factors... things like speed, upselling, customer rapport, appeal to the target demographic, etc. And, as we all know, "skills" like gender, hair color, breast size and bicep development can make a difference too. None of these factors have anything whatsoever to do with knowing how to make a cocktail. Heck, the average bar probably doesn't even have cocktail glasses.
Understanding the foregoing, I wouldn't expect the average bartender to know how to make any real cocktails at all. He/she might know that a martini consists of gin or vodka shaken on ice with vermouth, but just about everyone in America knows that. Depending on an individual bar's style, there are probably a few other cocktails that the bartenders are expected to know (Margaritas at a Mexican place, premix Hurricanes at Pat O'Brien's, etc.).
I think the comparison to a chef is an interesting one. Beans is correct when she points out that the average cook coming into a his first restaurant kitchen at the rock-bottom level probably doesn't know how the difference between a coarse dice and a fine mince. However, he will be taught these things if he expects to move to the line, and I'm quite sure that everyone working the line at e.g., Babbo, knows difference between a coarse dice and a fine mince along with all the other things Janet outlined. But, let's take the analogy a little further. A bartender isn't like a line cook anyway. A bartender making a cocktail is like a chef who makes the whole meal all by himself. Now, I would expect that any chef I hired to staff a kitchen all by himself was well-versed in just about everything there was to know about the kind of food he would be cooking. If my kitchen was going to be turning out French food, I would absolutely expect my cook to know what goes in a bechamel. On the other hand, if my kitchen was going to be turning out hotdogs and preformed hamburgers, I wouldn't have that expectation. Taking the analogy to its conclusion, it would seem that the average bar patron wants to eat hot dogs and that the average bartender as a result is more like a fry cook than a one-man bistro chef. That's too bad, I think, but it's the reality I think.
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I have been aquiring All-clad LTD on an "as I can afford it" basis and agree that it totally rules. I have both read and been told that Emeril's line of cookware is "really" All-clad.
It appears to be made by All-Clad Metalcrafters, but even a casual glance at the Emerilware website is enough to demonstrate that it's not the same thing as regular All-Clad. That doesn't necessarily mean worse, but it's pretty clear it's different.
Again, I would encourage you to look for less expensive and better cookware. Especially if you have been paying full retail for All-Clad. That's just highway robbery.
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Beans brings up good points, I think. There are, unfortunately, precious few "cocktailphile" bars around. So, what I think we have here are perhaps two different lines of inquiry here. There is "what should be in the ideal cocktailian bartender's repertoire" and there is "what is valuable to have in the average working bartender's repercoire." These are completely different questions, and will result in completely different answers.
For the averge working bartender working at a typical bar, I'm thinking: Margarita, Cosmo and Martini -- in that order -- plus whatever happens to be the trendy drink du jour and a few house specialties are the only "must have" cocktails that require any real mixing skills. Everything else will be of the G&T/Bloody Mary/LIT variety. I'm guessing that the above, plus beer and shots/shooters, comprises around 99% of the average American bar's business.
Now, for a bartender at a "really good cocktail place" the list is entirely different.
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To spatchcock: fendre pour griller
Spatchcocked: fendu pour griller
Maybe?
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Of course you're right. But my point was more that, regardless of what drinks a particular bar or bartender serves regularly, there still seems to be a short list of drinks that any bartender should know how to make. The Aviation isn't one of them, but certainly every bartender should know how to make a Martini and a Manhattan, right? Are there others?
Hmmm... I wonder. The three big ones that come immediately to mind are: Martini, Cosmopolitan, Margarita. Second tier would be Manhattan, Gimlet, LIT. Third tier would be things like Mojitos and Caipirinhas that are becoming popular in some cities/demographics. Other than those, and no doubt more popular than any from the second of third tier, are things like Gin & Tonic, Bloody Mary, Rum & Coke, 7 & 7, etc. -- mixed drinks that don't demand a whole lot of skill and are easily understood simply from the name.
My gut feeling is that, in 90% of American bars, a bartender can get by only knowing the first tier cocktails and the easy mixed drinks.
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I have a question as well - if I have a great copper saute pan, is there any time I would need a cast iron pan? I hear such great things about cast iron, but I feel that my copper saute pan does pretty much everything I think I would use cast iron on. I don't like to clutter up my kitchen with unnecessary tools, so I just wanted to check in to see if there's something I'm missing.
Sorry for the long delay. Sometimes these posts don't show up on my radar. So...
The short answer is that no, there's not really any reason to have a cast iron skillet if you have a good stainless lined heavy copper saute pan. There are a few things that cast iron might do a little better (making cornbread, fitting close under the broiler, etc.), but if clutter is a consideration I don't think there's much point in getting some cast iron. I have an unreasonable amount of cookware in my kitchen, including lots of copper and also lots of ancestral cast iron. I'd say I use the copper pieces maybe 50 times for each 1 use of the cast iron pans. I like having them around, but I probably wouldn't miss my cast iron pieces if I got rid of them (well, I'd miss them for sentimental reasons, but not for cooking reasons). If, on the other hand, you do have some room to spare, you might think of trying a cast iron piece. The great advantage of cast iron is that it's very inexpensive.
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In terms of a professional bartender, I imagine the list of requisite cocktails will have a lot to do with the venue. There's little point, for example, in learning how to make an Aviation in a bar that is frequented by the frozen margarita and Jaeger shooter set.
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Perhaps it's changed since my drinking days but I recall Tanqueray as being 86 proof in the US and 94.6 proof in Canada (and likely elsewhere). I haven't looked at a bottle in a long while. is that still the case or do I have my proof and countries reversed? (it was well over twenty years ago when I had both a US and a Canadian bottle side by side and the memories were fuzzy even the following day but there was definitely a difference).
I just looked at the bottle of (tea-infused) Tanqueray I have in my fridge, and it's 94.6 proof.
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Thanks for an interesting article, Beans. But I have to say... after reading the article, I am totally unconvinced that there is a "slacker cocktail culture."
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I gather that they sharpen freehand? Are you able to specify the angles you want?
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ive worked in three restaurants that used stainless all clad. . .
This interests me. I've heard similar claims from various people over the years. And I've poked my head into an awful lot of restaurant kitchens over the years, from the super high-end to quotidian greasy spoons. And yet I've never seen a single piece of All-Clad. Not one. And really, given the extreme expense of this stuff, it's no surprise that I haven't seen it around. I'm not saying that such restaurant kitchens don't exist, but they have to be extremely rare. It really is remarkable that you have not only worked in one, but three restaurants that use All-Clad Stainless.
Does All-Clad make a pan that can be used for broiling in the oven and will withstand the high broiling heat?All of their pans can be used this way, afaik (except the nonstick ones, of course).
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Personally, I think aluminum going up the sides in all my cookware is worth it. In theory there are some pieces of cookware like skillets, sauté pans or stockpots where you should be able to get away with a thick disk rather than cladding up the sides. In practice, you will find things getting burned on right where the edge of the disk runs out and the ‘floor’ of the pan meets the ‘wall’ of the pan, and this is an annoying feature in something you didn’t want to replace for 20 years.
Interesting. I do a lot of cooking, and as anyone who has been in my kitchen can attest, I own an unconscionable amount of cookware. I have never -- not even once -- experienced even the slightest hint of this problem you are describing. Unless one is using a disk-bottom pan with a diameter so small that the flame of the burner goes up the sides of the pan, I don't believe this really happens. Now, in cases where the pan is smaller than the flame, I agree that it does make sense to have a fully clad pan. Needless to say, this size will vary according to the burners on one's stove.
I should also point out that I don't think it's always a matter of being able to "get away" woth using a disk-bottom design. There are several applications and types of pan where the disk-bottom designs available are superior to the fully-clad designs (usually this has to do with putting the largest amount of the thermal material in the place where it will do the most good).
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Congratulations, Moby! May I suggest a celebratory dinner of tagliatelle Bolognese?
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Is All-Clad stainless steel cookware still the best that you can buy. Is it still worth the money. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Hmmm... My first reaction is, "no it isn't the best that you can buy by any stretch of the imagination" and my second reaction is, "actually, it was never worth the money."
This is not to say that All-Clad Stainless isn't good cookware. It's good stuff, and I own several pieces of it. It's just hidiously overpriced. If price is not a consideration, far superior cookware may easily be found. And if price is a consideration, comparable or even better cookware may be had at a lower price.
If you're interested, please have a look at my eGCI class on Understanding Stovetop Cookware.
All About Pasta
in Italy: Cooking & Baking
Posted
Dude, that's only $2.27 a pound. What's so expensive about that? It may seem expensive compared to 59 cent a pound Ronzoni, but the fact is that $2.27 a pound is still very inexpensive. I mean, you can feed 3-4 people on one pound of pasta. That's around 55 to 75 cents a person! If there is another primo ingredient that can be had this inexpensively, I don't know about it. Compared to, say, $2 a pound for red peppers, it's a bargain. And don't even get me started on what they're charging for fresh fava beans, etc.
Well, I can't read the book as yet, because it won't be published until early October. But I am, naturally, intimately familiar with the rest of her work to-date. In the books I have read, she has often referred to dry pasta as "factory made" and has often made the case for valuing dry/factory-made pasta equally with fresh/homemade pasta.
When I read, "this might shock you, but . . . Santa Marcella says that for some dishes, factory-made pasta is the only way to go" in a thread about dry pasta, I gathered you were interpreting Hazan as occasionally advocating industrial dry/factory-made pasta over artisanal dry/factory-made pasta. Otherwise, why would I be shocked, right? That I started a thread on favorite dry pasta brands strikes me as strong evidence of my fondness for dry pasta and the fact that I value it equally with fresh. But perhaps I misconstrued your post.
I'll be surprised if she changes from her historical practice in this new book, but you're certainly in a better position to know than I.
I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. It's not rocket science to find out this information, and I have found that it's not that hard to visit a pastificio if you're in the neighborhood. For the record, when I wrote as to "what makes Latini factory-made pasta different from Ronzoni factory-made pasta" was never intended as an implied commentary on your knowledge in this area, which I'm sure is quite advanced.
What are the other elements you take into consideration? The only one I am not considering for the purposes of this thread is cost. Perhaps our difference of opinion is because for me there is no such thing as "just maccheroni." I don't think $5/kilo in NYC is an unreasonably high cost, and I don't find that it depletes the funds I have available for other quality foodstuffs such as produce, meat, fish, wine, etc. But, on the other hand... my cooking, culinary philosophy and everyday diet were largely formed in Italy. So I eat a lot of pasta, and it's important to me.