cabrales

I'm game, but my place is too small. How many can you accommodate, Bux? You actually only need to feed one articulate volunteer, but I'm not sure that explaining would do anything to change Steve's mind. I'm a volunteer, although I think Steve P would have to taste an item for himself. Also note the pitfall that I tend to be more articulate about French cuisine than Italian cuisine.

vivin -- When you have a chance, could you consider describing your observations on the dish?

George's at the Cove was included in the San Diego Restaurant "Black Book" in an article appearing in the August 2002 edition of Food & Wine. The other included restaurants were: A.R. Valentien, Chive, Laurel (this is somehow related to Winesellar & Brasserie); Point Loma Seafoods and The Waterfront.

The August 2002 edition of Food & Wine lists the results of a survey on diners' pet peeves with respect to service: Waiters who disappear 23% Vain or snotty waitstaff 13% Cold food 12 Patrons on cell phones 10 Renegade smokers 8 Cramped tables 6 Waiters who hover 5 Long waits between courses 5 Noise 5 Overprice menus 4 Getting seated in an uncool part of the restaurant 3 Waiters who tell you the specials without the price 2 Overpriced wine lists 1 Waiters who foget who gets waht 1 People who moan while eating something delicious 1 Poorly designed bathrooms 1%

The following note on Bid appeared in the August 2002 edition of Food & Wine: "York Avenue, no restaurant row, now lays claim to Bid, on the ground floor of Sotheby's auction house. Gramercy Tavern veteran Matt Seeber's French-American creations --buttery seared scallops with bacon; sauteed black sea bass with bok choy, fennel and saffron-tomato broth -- should keep Upper East Siders and visiting collectors happy." The above discussion was placed in the "Best New Restaurants" section (together with Atelier, Blue Smoke, Fiamma, The Harrison, Kai, Olica and Washington Park) of an article by Salma Abdelnour entitled "Where to Go Next in New York City". Other sections of the article discussed Next-Door Spin-offs (Cantinetta, Craftbar), Menu Overhaul (La Caravelle), Bar Scene (Butter, Industry, Meet) and Cheap/Snack (aKa Cafe, BB Sandwich Bar).

Steve P -- As to why French cuisine tends to come out well in certain (to be clear, not all) board discussions, it could be in part attributable to the following factors: (1) With French cuisine (among certain others, such as Chinese cuisine), one can analyze not only individual dishes, but also the relationship of dishes within a meal to each other, whether in the form of progression effects or otherwise. With hamburger, one could consider the relationship between accompanying fries, but in some instances, hamburger is not part of an extended, multiple-course meal. Thus, the ebbs and flows of the meal, its culmination or retirement are potentially less distinct. I appreciate that in certain circumstances hamburger can be part of a multi-course meal, such as in a barbecue. (2) Many forms of French cuisine are wine-friendly. The range of French techniques to which Steve P refers can result in a diversity of saucing, composition, etc. for dishes that provides a better platform than certain other cuisines, for wine. For example, while certain cuisines that utilize a great deal of spices (e.g., certain forms of Thai cuisine) may have appealing dishes to certain diners, the style of the cuisine may be less wine-friendly. Similarly, for hamburger, for example, it is better paired, if with any bottled wine, with a red in most cases. Yet, for chicken in French cuisine for example, depending on the composition of the dish, one could imagine all sorts of possibilities wine-wise.

Nick -- When you have a chance, please consider discussing whether the recipe in "French Cooking" is the same as the one in Buller's book (as described in the first post of this thread). Also, what special types (if any) of potatoes do members prefer for the dish? (Steve Klc -- Note I am not aware of which potato species have yellow flesh) lizziee -- Do you use potatoes other than russet with any frequency?

I'd appreciate input from members who have visited Coquillages, the Roellinger bistro, or the one-starred restaurant in St Malo called Chalut.

I'd appreciate input from members who have sampled the new restaurant Chamarel at 13 boulevard de La Tour-Maubourg (7th), 01-47-05-50-18. Below are excerpts from a Nouvel Observateur article, *very* roughly translated by me: "One has to take advantage of a piece of news of gastronomic significance, because Jerome Bodereau is a chef of whom we will talk. Formed classically with a rare finesse, he seeks to find, not to bluff. He surprises, knowing where he would like to go, with superb audacity. He imbues plates with calculated pairings of ingredients. He successfully aligned French technique with elements of Mauritius, the homeland of Antoine Herrah, his associate in the dining room. The complexity of the pate of young rabit suggests its deliciousness: smoked filet, shoulders and thighs confit, foie gras, and a lining of aubergines. The filet of [marlin] -- rare -- is presented with vegetabes with an oil of curry, garlic and shallots -- challenging as well as seductive. Echoing with that dish are roasted asparagus with their own veloute. A trio of filets of mackeral -- escabeche style, pan roasted and lacquered. . . . Chicken with curry leaves under the skin, cooked in a bouillon of [betal leaves??] is bizarre, but addictive. The pig dish, including head and feet in a galette, has three chutneys (onion, beetroot, tomato). . . ." Lunches are described as beginning at 30 euros; menu carte at 45 euros. http://www.parisobs.com/articles/p72/a15519.htm

Bux -- I agree (and did take your note as a significant compliment ), particularly since a friend with something interesting to say that is unrelated to cuisine could interact with me over the phone, by e-mail, while having coffee, or at other times when I am not taking in a meal. I find French haute cuisine much more potentially pleasing (including by reason of its being more interesting to analyze). However, that, as with many things cuisine or restaurant-related, is a subjective assessment. I would consider it entirely natural that others might find kim chi pickles or fast food burgers to be what they prefer to analyze. I imagine much could be interesting about the range of vegetables used by Koreans for kim chi, or the role and type of mustard, bun, quality of meat, ketchup, etc. in a burger (even before getting to the cheese), however, for me those things are subjectively less delicious than French haute cuisine. Thus, I devote less time and effort to pursuing and discussing them because the potential subjective fulfillment to be derived from those foods is less than for French haute cuisine in my case. However, there are exceptions, like egg dishes in any cuisine or, as previously mentioned, the exuberance of cherries. At present, I am debating whether to undergo some reduction of restaurant going in the US (to a level that would not be low, presumably), given my subjective preferences for restaurants in France. One of the primary lines of inquiry in that internal debate mimics the topic of this thread: With all respect to restaurants all over the world, are restaurants in France intrinsically for me so considerably more interesting to eat at, analyze and discuss that I should not be eating out as much as I do in the US? Apologies to any member who may mistake the above as a criticism of the quality of food found in the US; that is not the intended meaning. It is merely to say that subjectively I find restaurants in France to be considerably more fulfilling.

Empire -- The subject of a prior thread. I'm surprised the facility has not closed for want of business by now.

For me, the best meal in the UK during the past year was at Gordon Ramsay RHR.

I thought some context for the manner in which I order upon first visiting a restaurant might be appropriate. I have been interested in French culinary history (including the history of restaurants in France) for some period. I collect cookbooks regarding French restaurants and cuisine. When I visit a three-star restaurant, I am sometimes tempted by certain dishes with historical significance. For example, at La Pyramides now, the only dish in hommage to F Point offered by P Henrioux is a Bresse chicken dish. I would have ordered it without regard to what else from Henrioux was available, because of the affiliations of the dish with F Point. When I visited Blanc for the first time, I had to sample the G7 chicken, not only because of my liking of Bresse chicken, but also because of the connections to the Lyons meeting of such group. Similarly for: Bocuse's Truffle Soup VGE, the Lameloise truffled pigeon dish, many of the dishes in Lorain's "Les Musts" (The Musts) section of the menu, the seafood sausage at Taillevent, etc. Who can go to the Tour d'Argent and not order the blood duck? Or Troisgros and eschew the salmon with sorrel? M Bras without sampling the coulant (although admittedly, that has newer versions released from time to time). How about Meneau without the oysters in gelee? Or Loiseau without his frogs' legs with parsley and garlic? There are just dishes that, even though conceived of some time ago, are so known that they have to be sampled. Not that a diner should adhere to the popularity of a dish, or its historical repute. However, there are certain dishes that I am eager to sample upon a first visit to the restaurant with which the applicable dish is affiliated. My next item for sampling at Lucas-Carton: the lobster with vanilla.

Bux -- Despite restaurants' tendencies to choose a Sauterne or another sweet wine with foie gras, I would not have chosen a sweet wine. I thought the Jurancon moelleux tended to detract from the refreshing aspects of the cabbage. I would have chosen one of the classic white Burgundies, but that is a very subjective assessment that would not be shared by many. When Soba and I were at Gramercy Tavern, I recommended a glass of Banyuls with a seared foie gras dish that featured a cherry sauce. The dining room team member indicated it was a more interesting choice than a Sauternes when I suggested it. I'm not sure Soba necessarily liked it, although he was not drinking much, however. With cherries and foie gras, I have chosen Banyuls on several occasions. I would also like to highlight that, despite the unfavorable assessment of the intrinisc merits for me of the Canard Apicius, sampling it was a process that was intensely pleasureful. Sometimes a meal can only be evaluated in the context of the subjective quirks and history a diner associates with the applicable restaurant and/or dish, and Lucas-Carton and the Canard Apicius have a special, warm place in my heart. That continues today. Sandra -- With your interest in architecture, Grand Vefour could also be interesting. A less apparent destination with architectural interest would be Ducasse's Plaza Athenee; the dining room is a mix of classicism (walls of the restaurant are classical, with chandeliers, etc.) and modernism (with numerous updated designs incorporated -- see detailed description under the restaurant).

hmm.. computer problems continue, including with respeect to capitalization button. marcus' points raise indirectly an interesting issue in the context of the france forum. it would be nice to receive input on a restaurant from a wider group of members -- not only on auberge de l'ill, but also on other restaurants in france. As for how one orders, I am subjectively not of the viewpoint that there is a "best" way common for all (or even most diners). Obviously, the dishes of a restaurant included in a prix fixe menu varies in scope and quantity. Anybody going to Veyrat for the first time is much better off ordering one of the tasting menus, given the pricing of individual plates. Similarly, I think at Bras, a first-time diner would do well with a tasting menu.

Bux -- I have confronted a restaurant for stale foie gras (Michel Rostang), but there one had three assessments (myself and two persons who are clearly more knowledgeable about food). I would have confronted the restaurant had either one of those other persons mentioned the problem, let alone all three of us. Obviously, the restaurant confirmed that the problem was there after taking the dishes back. I think staleness of food products is a more serious allegation than mere indications of dissatisfaction on other grounds with a dish. It is an allegation not based on one's subjective preferences, in whole or in part, but based on an item having gone back in an objective manner and in a manner that would be insulting to any decent restaurant (let alone a three-star). I of course did not take in all of the foie gras that I thought was stale. I took in enough to determine that the sourness was not, in my assessment and before having reviewed the recipe for the dish, attributable to verjus, citrus fruit enhancements, etc. I do not think it is incumbent upon a diner to tell a restaurant what needs to be improved with respect to its cuisine or any other part of it. If I wanted to have a dish changed or clarified, I would be more inclined to say something. And I do not give compliments when they are not due. However, when one is dissatisfied, I do not feel obligated to come forth with criticism for the benefit of the restaurant. If a restaurant that needs improvement does not know it, that is its problem. Furthermore, a single diner has subjective preferences (leaving aside spoilage issue) that do not necessarily represent the bulk of diners' opinions. Marcus -- Like Bux, I welcome your having a different take on Auberge de L'Ill, including specifics

A recent lunch at Lucas-Carton was disappointing, despite an excellent appetizer dish and my appreciation, as a solo diner, of the availability of dish-based wine pairings. Note this was one of a number of visits over time to the restaurant. Despite my strong interest in Alain Senderens' cuisine, my take on L-C remains somewhat unfavorable, although it is stronger in my mind than certain other three-stars in Paris (incl. Taillevent). The meal began with two amuses (there is usually one): (1) a nage of bulots (a type of sea item) with lemongrass and garlic (nice seasoning and inclusion of a tiny skewer of bulots with thin slices of zucchini adjacent to the nage), and (2) a cream-like concoction of sole (difficult to discern in the martini-glass-serving of this item) with strands of green apple and small diced orange skin (this item had a strong dairy connotation and texture, reminding one of the possibility of the use of cheese, although some unusual type of cream might have accounted for these effects) (served with a small fried piece of sole). So far, so good. An interesting set of amuses, although the sole dish was a bit stark for my subjective preferences. I ordered a 1/2 order of the foie gras steamed in cabbage, a signature Senderens dish and literally an attempt to recreate the sensations of the first ever three-star dish I had in my life. I had not quite appreciated the lusciousness of the dish back then. This time around, I liked the slight crunchiness of the somewhat supple cabbage as it enveloped the fatty foie gras. I liked the utilization of fat, as the oils of the foie gras were availa2ble in the dish. I did not use the pepper and fleur de sel that were set forth separately on one part of the dish. This dish was served with a Jurancon molleux -- not what I would have subjectively chosen for the dish, although I respect Senderens' selections. The disappointing part of the meal was the famed Duck Apicius (Canard Apicius roti au miel et aux epices, euro 49/person and served to 2 persons, requiring 50 minutes of preparation time). I had wanted to sample this dish for years. However, both services of the duck were significantly too sweet and blunt. In the first service, the breast was presented with three items: (1) a sweet turnip slice, which was on top of honey (not bad), (2) a puree of dates with mint and other items -- this was unduly dense, stark ans sweet, and (3) a puree of green apples with quince -- this too was not a good match for the duck. The duck was nothing special. To me, it resembled a more refined version of Chinese BBQ duck with ample honey draped over it (granted, the meat was more tender, the fat layer more interesting and the skin significantly more complex). However, this dish did not appeal to me. The second serving of the same duck's thighs atop a green salad was slightly better. However, the signifiant problem witih both servings was the unmoderated sweetness of the duck. This was exacerbated by the serving of the first item with a Banyuls, Cave de L'Etoile 1985 (it's 1985 currently, even though the 1983 was described on the menu). With the second course was a Banyuls Solera -- "Hors d'age" from Parce. Both Banyuls intensified the sweetness already unhelpful to the dish. Dessert was a simple selection of ice creams --almond milk, verbena and pistachio. The overall asssessment of the meal was impaired by the Canard Apicius, ironically. Overall, the service was good and the pouring of the wine was very generous. With each dish, one is supposed to get a glass of wine. However, the sommelieir kept on pouring, including with respect to the glass of 1993 Dom Perignon I ordered as an apertaif. I must have had at least two glasses, and yet was charged only for one. Also, the restaurant was kind and did not charge me for the second, uneaten portion of the Canard Apicius. Sadly, although not entirely unexpectedly given my subjective preferences, the Canard Apicius fell significantly short of what my own idealized notions of it had been. However, that dish is one that, for me, had to be sampled sooner or later. While the Canard Apicius is not includeed in a very reasonably priced 73 euro lunch menu (with 3-4 selections for each of 3 courses), the foie gras with cabbage is included on that menu at this time.

. . . .I couldn't agree with you more. Also, that is why we make a point of eating at least 2 and hopefully three meals in a destination restaurant - try the standards, try the new, get to know the staff etc. Marcus & lizziee -- As discussed iin another thread, I too attempt to sample a Michelin three-star restaurant several times before furnishing an assessment. However, for some Strasbourg restaurants and a very few other such restaurants, that has not been practicable to date. If a first visit is miserable, I would say one could say the restaurant is likely to be poor. It was not only that the food at Auberge de l'Ill was "tired" (in the old-fashioned sense); it was poor regardless of modernity considerations. I reviewed the remainder of the menu, and it did not strike me as being particularly novel (not that food at a restaurant needs to be -- see my review of Buerehiesel). Spoiled foie gras (very likely ) should not be served as a signature dish (even one dating from some time ago) at a three-star restaurant. Perhaps a visit by lizziee would yield a different assessment. Beachfan -- While I may not signal satisfaction with a dish, I do not always express dissatisfaction (particularly if the restaurant does not ask). With my strong suspicions that the foie gras was stale, I would not convey that to a three-star restaurant unless I had other diners with me to verify my conclusion. It seems such a serious charge with which to directly confront a restaurant. I'd have to say that I was quite confident of my assessment, however.

Alexander -- When you have a chance, please consider discussing the differences in taste you might perceive between Manitoba and Alberta beef.

Malawry -- Yes, thanks, especially since you have been busy and yet so much wonderful detail was provided. For me, the information regarding basic cookery was helpful (e.g., the cuts, deglazing), as I try to prime up before beginning cooking at home.

I heard second hand that Sotheby's may have certain wine events. I wonder how accurate that information is.

MartyL -- Troisgros is excellent, as to wine list as well as cuisine. Wine pricing might be slightly higher of a mark-up than Georges Blanc (which has very reasonably priced wine for a three-star), but selection at Troisgros is clearly superior. Also, wine pricing at Troisgros can be said to be no higher than average for a three-star outside of Paris. My experience is that neither the staff nor the chef is in the least hoity-toity. Steve P and I have each had H Jayer Echezeux and other great wine at Troisgros. In my assessment, good wine is not helpful without at least very good cuisine (the latter is lacking at Blanc).

The article seems to suggest that a given US chef was cooking in the kitchen of a particular, single French chef. If it's a Paris chef going to Burgundy, why was Loiseau not mentioned -- if the venue was La Cote d'Or, there must have been Loiseau at least present. Based on further digging, here's a table with the chef pairings. The WP was indeed inaccurate. The location of the Trotter visit was Paris. http://www.saveurs.sympatico.ca/relais/gen...al/jumelage.htm This might be seen as suggesting the question -- why did the writer of the WP article and none of the people editing know this fact? The other "lucky" North American chef was Feenie, who was paired with newly annointed three-star chef Jean-Georges Klein of L'Arnsbourg. Here's an amazing menu -- unclear whether it was for the 30th anniversary celebration (in French; not translated): http://www.saveurs.sympatico.ca/relais/menu.htm

Given J McManus' Q&A and her mention of a Relais Gourmand dinner in Paris in mid-June, I followed up on whether a story came out of it. Imagine my surprise when the following excerpt was included in the June 19, 2002 edition of the Washington Post ("The Rest of the Story" article): "A gala dinner in Paris Thursday night is just the beginning of the Relais Gourmands' 30th anniversary celebration. On Friday and Saturday, the visiting American Relais Gourmands chefs will collaborate with 15 of their European colleagues by cooking in their restaurant kitchens. . . . [Discussions of Patrick O'Connell and Eric Ripert and their French chef pairings] Chicago chef Charlie Trotter will head to France's Burgundy region to cook alongside Alain Passard at **La Cote d'Or in Saulieu** . . . ." As members may know, Bernard Loiseau is the chef at La Cote d'Or (in Saulieu, Burgundy) and the named chef cooks in Paris. This could lead one to wonder about the quality of fact-checking at the Washington Post, no? (One could argue that information of this nature should be common knowledge for anybody in food writing, even in the US)

David -- Welcome! You referred to "light quick meals". When you have a chance, could you consider discussing whether you are referring to the number of dishes general taken by diners at the bar, or the composition/ingredients/method of preparation of bar dishes relative to your restaurant dishes? I noted the following write-up in The Washington Times' travel section (June 22, 2002, "Vancouver soaring high on best-places lists", by Dagan McCann): Vancouver's "nouveau-chic reputation has accelerated as it has brought urban haute gastronomy to an ever-youthful but discerning clientele . . . . the fashionable epicurean outpost Ouest. Enter this contemporary enclave of leather-paneled walls and diamond-cut marble flooring, and you are greeted by a dashing hostess and a two-story wall of wines. The nearby Okanagan Valley has continually produced serious contenders to French white wines, and the sommelier is glad to point out local wine pairings. The essence of Ouest, though, comes from the culinary wizardry of David Hawksworth, the executive chef. From the roasted Weathervane scallops - with fresh coriander sauce - that sizzle and pop with flavor to the Pacific lingcod that mimics the texture of sea bass but with heightened flavor, Mr. Hawksworth has broken ground for a class of new chefs emerging in Vancouver." Ouest was the only Vancouver restaurant mentioned