Pan

That doesn't surprise me. It sounds good and is something I'd probably order.

Oh, I see eye to eye with you here. If "you either love it or hate it," you might love it (or you might hate it). But if there's a consensus that something is mediocre, you'll probably find that it's mediocre. That said, when people whose taste I respect tell me a meal somewhere sucked, I take that as seriously as when they tell me they loved their meal. I'm not sure whether I'd feel worse about missing a great meal than having a horrible one, though. I rather expect I'd feel worse about having a horrible meal, for the most part.

Well, I'd love to have recommendations of modern-style bistros, too, especially if they're economical.

I was at Spicy & Tasty -- a Sichuan-style restaurant -- again for dinner tonight, and I noticed that some customers were ordering a whole fish (braised, I think), that had a large quantity of chopped cilantro (including stems) all over the top of it. I'd call that more than a garnish, too. touaregsand, there's no way cilantro is a universal herb. In Northern Europe, dill is favored. Think of borsht with cilantro. That would strike people as really weird.

Bubby's is pricey because it's in Tribeca and child-friendly, I think. I consider it overpriced, but I don't live in Tribeca or have a child. In terms of food only, it's just OK, not even particularly good, but it's not bad. And that quality for I suppose $25-30 for lunch ain't cuttin' it for me. But again, it's not just the food they're charging for. (Caveat: I haven't been there for at least two years if not three.)

That's no coincidence, but I fear that addressing that issue further would take us away from a focus on food, so I'll merely refer you to a page where you can begin to look at the history of Dutch colonialism in what's now Indonesia. And I think I'll leave it at that.

We have to talk about Greek diners before your next visit. I had a nice lunch at one in Brooklyn, and I'll post about it at some future point on the New York Forum.

Burger King is another place I avoid, though. But I have a feeling those chains are in fact better in places like Malaysia and India where I sort of figure fewer people will tolerate untasty food than in the US. (Did I just step into a can of worms? )

Observing traffic laws consistently is also a challenge, n'est-ce pas? Lots of things are challenges. Judging professionals on the basis of how consistent they are is entirely reasonable and proper! I would argue that someone who can't keep a consistent level of quality is not worthy of being called a professional. Now, on the other hand, if a dish tastes different but equally good or better, that's another issue, but it's always risky to change a customer's favorite dish. However, ain't life always a tradeoff? As long as you are aware of what you're doing, that's fine. Cannot be fixed? Comp the dish, whatever. It's called customer service. (P.S.: I hope this reply sounds emphatic but not unfriendly.)

I'd be interested in trying that.

Kew, I'm not sure halal-observant Muslims would really want to eat dirty rice. I did some web searching, and it seems like the apple pie is the only standard pie offering at US McDonalds locations, though it's unclear whether what I'm looking at is a complete list. I haven't set foot in a McDonalds for a long time. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonald's is actually good in Malaysia, but I avoid it here -- and there, because there are a slew of places that are more interesting to me.

Where's that place on Atlantic, JJ?

I've passed that place many times but have never gone in. Glad to have the recommendation.

Yep, and in some ways like the Director of a film or play. Here, we run into difficulties with analogies not only between cuisine and the fine arts but between the fine arts themselves. I'm not sure which painters might properly be called "minimalists," but I suspect my reaction to their work would be considerably different to my reaction to music that repeats itself with slight changes for extended periods of time. There's a big difference between subtlety in a painting or, for that matter, a dish, than between very drawn-out repetitiveness. A closer musical analogy might be an understated, subtle, and perhaps short work (I'm thinking Webern, who actually puts a great deal of complexity into short works, but an argument could be made for Satie -- and neither are properly called Minimalists). But I think we can all see the analogies breaking down at this point. That's quite a funny analogy there! Why should you be able to appreciate whatever someone finds worthwhile in a restaurant? People find all kinds of total crud worthwhile! As you said, look at Zagat! Nay, look at all the awful chains and disgusting artificial flavoring-laden processed food that sells the pants off superior luxury items that are so touted on these boards. But anyway, I feel that the best reviewers can describe something well enough that, even if they give it a bad review, the reader should be able to make a good guess as to whether s/he would like it. And how useful I find a review on this site depends to a large extent on how well I know a member's taste and how closely I've found it corresponds to my own taste -- and that's regardless of whether the review is good or bad (in terms of rating, of course, not writing). I really don't understand why you wouldn't find a bad review as useful as a good review, if the same person was writing both and both were equally clear on what the cuisine was like and what the writer did or/and didn't like.

I haven't either, so I can't cite it as an example of an overrated restaurant. The most I could say is that a certain number of people have expressed the opinion that it's overrated and a certain number have said it's properly rated.

Cilantro as a garnish does a hell of a lot more than just give a nice look to a dish. Unless you make a big effort not to eat it, of course, and it's hard to avoid in some dishes. Cilantro has a distinctive aromatic flavor which in my experience so far, people usually either really like (me) or really dislike. My experience definitely bears out Ben's remarks about cilantro's relative prevalence in Northern Chinese cuisine. Whenever we got pickles in Beijing, fresh cilantro was included (much to our chagrin, as we were afraid of contagion from fresh raw vegetables). I also agree with Jason on its use in Shanghainese and Sichuan style, such as in cold dishes. As far as I can remember, most any time I've had Beef Tendon in Hot Oil and similar dishes, cilantro has been included.

I'm enjoying all the pictures of Putrajaya, which looks like a pleasant place. Back to the topic of fusion, when I was sitting in a hotel room in Petaling Jaya in 2003, I recall watching an interview with a restaurateur in Kuala Lumpur who had a popular Italian (or should that be "Italian"?) restaurant. From what I remember, he said the secret of his popularity was adding some cili padi to all his dishes. He found that his customers wouldn't eat regular tomato-based sauces until he added a good dose of hot peppers to it. I regret that I don't remember the name of the restaurant. I also remember that there were some specifically Malaysian offerings being advertised in posters at a McDonald's, I think (or Burger King) in KL. Asam-flavored something? Chili McChicken? Kew, I also took note of your mention of Burmese restaurants. Next time I'm in Malaysia, if I'm not simply joyfully overdosing on Malaysian food, I might spare a meal for a Burmese place. I didn't realize that was big in Malaysia lately, but I can easily see where a style of cooking that, to my knowledge, is sort of a cross between Thai, Chinese, and Indian would go over well in Malaysia!

I think that music that's "difficult" usually has very strong flavors (harsh dissonances, "ugly" timbres, complex forms, etc.), if you want to use an analogy. Music that's too "subtle" (I'd say boring) to sound like anything worth a damn at my first hearing is unlikely to meet with my approval on subsequent hearings, unless the performance was at fault. By analogy, again, perhaps a restaurant that serves seemingly clashing flavors that are interesting but not fully appreciated on a first trip may be worth more trips. But one that's so subtle that it seems like nothing on a first trip? I don't know, though I get your point. But part of what we're dealing with is cost-benefit analysis and part is how much patience a person has with revisiting what was a disappointing experience for them. And no, I can't fault Steingarten, but I can say that few would be willing to do what he did on their own dime and time, and I find it pretty hard to fault them, either.

I have a problem with that, Bux. At those prices, if I go once and am not impressed, there's no way I'm going back seven more times -- unless someone pays me to do that. But though I love bold flavors, I also loved my lunch at Craft, a restaurant that's been called subtle (even overly so) by some. I notice that it's appeared on some people's "overrated" lists, and I have a hard time understanding that after the meal I had there.

Interesting that the lobster flavor is called "udang galah." I think of udang galah as really collossal shrimps (no oxymoron intended). Moosh, some of us non-parents remember playing with Lego. Kew, do you put the curry leaves in most of your curries? I love curry leaves, but I don't remember them being used on the East Coast back when. Are they a traditional part of Malay curries on the West Coast? Also, a general remark: The influence of Indian food on Malay palates is obvious, what with Roti Canai, Chapatti, Murtabak, and even curries themselves being originally Indian imports. But what's also evident is how much Chinese food has influenced Malay palates, probably even more on the West Coast -- where there's a much higher percentage of Chinese Malaysians -- than on the East Coast. I didn't realize until recently that kueh itself is a Hokkien word. And of course there are many varieties of mee (=noodles) and Hainanese chicken. Nowadays, some dishes borrowed from the Thais are very popular. Would you like to expand on the topic of Malaysian cuisine as a delicious fusion of diverse influences from longstanding and more recent international trade, conquest, and so forth? I imagine your Chinese-Malaysian neighbor Tepee will also have some remarks about this.

You're so funny. But seriously now, are those sour bamboo shoots sort of pickled in vinegar? I can't remember seeing those but have to look next time I'm in the Thai store on Mosco St. in Manhattan's Chinatown or a big Chinese supermarket that stocks Southeast Asian items.

I can dig that lobster-flavored keropok, but I'm not familiar with Kinder Bueno or Duplo. Feel free to talk up your favorites more. What makes them special?

Kew, that was the Pasar Malam in Cyberjaya? What would you say are the most popular stalls? How late is it open and do they take a break for Isyak (evening) prayers like the one in Kota Bharu? I think the Pasar Malam is a great institution in Malaysia, but I'm not sure how long ago it became prevalent. I don't remember them from the 1970s, when many people in villages didn't yet have their own electricity supply and people had to wake up early for a day of hard labor in the sawmills, fields, or sea. I got the idea in Kelantan that Murtabak is a local specialty. They seemed to be selling meat (chicken or goat, I think, but maybe beef, too) or banana murtabak in the Pasar Malam in Kota Bharu. I found them tasty but pretty buttery.

That doesn't sound very weird to me. Aren't foie gras and fruit combinations traditional?

Rich, I have to disagree with you about 11 Madison Park. I've been there three times and enjoyed the experience every time. I've found that the waitstaff makes a big effort to see that you are satisfied. I concluded some time ago that Shun Lee Palace and Shun Lee West were way overrated but haven't been back since. Canton is another restaurant that was overrated. And at this point, Klong is probably overrated. I ordered delivery from them a couple of weeks ago, and the shrimp were old -- not too old for me to eat, but definitely too old for me to be interested in ordering anything from that restaurant again.