thom

A belated response to comments further up the thread. Firstly, I must point out that as stated the Michelin rant I posted about was "reposted" from an architecture website, and the list of restaurants I used reflects that - i was looking for brands or names that would be recogised by planning officers and property barons rather than those that would pique the interest of a rariefied audience of foodies. And yes, I take the point that Manchester's restaurants may often fail to excite someone travelling to the city but I do think that's a little harsh to apply across the board (Red Chilli!). And as Gary says the same argument could be made about any provincial city, which pretty much echo's the crux of my original Michelin argument - this is a provincial city "issue", not a Manchester issue. I personally travel to most of the major cities around the North of a regular basis and the last time a city centre meal blew me away? Probably Anthony's, with Gary, four years ago. Aside from that? Leeds? Liverpool? Sheffield? Newcastle? Nottingham? Plenty of "nice" meals (and many poor one's) but nothing which would have me clamouring to return. Dipardoo, possibly you are right that Manchester's restaurant's get talked up more than most (that's cocky Manc's for you) but I guess that partly depends on the medium. In terms of national media I don't think we get undue attention and if we get disproportionate coverage on here I guess that is because there are a lot of North West/Mancunian eGulleteers. We talk about where we can regularly eat (which is why most London-based critics struggle to break out of the M25!). Personally, I stand by the evidence of the vast majority of restaurant guides over the last decade - They report that Manchester city centre has a restaurant scene broader and deeper than anywhere outside London but also make clear that it lacks a couple of big, consistent hitters at the top end. I love being able to eat out at lots of great places on my doorstep because I live here, but I fully appreciate that doesn't mean that these places are worthy of a gastronomic pilgrimage. Except, maybe, Red Chilli. Cheers Thom

Uhhr, not in its CBD it doesn't. Same with Sheffield and MAnchester; their starred establishments are out of town. ← Zigackly. I am talking about city centre's here, or CBD's to be more precise. The economics of somewhere like Juniper or Sat Bains would be completely different (arguably unsustainable) if they were competing with Starbucks, Tesco Metro et al for prime retail leisure sites in the middle of town. That's kind of the crux of the matter. Cheers Thom

Below is the acceptable bit of my original post earlier up the thread which prompted Infrasonic's response RE Hi-Life. Without this context it would appear as if Infra has just rambled off on some unrelated tangent like some sherry-sozzled great aunt at Christmas dinner. That, Mr Sonic, is MY job! Cheers Thom "Back to the subject of the FT promotion, or on the more general subject of restaurant promotions, has anyone looked at Hi-Life? It operates on a similar principle to the FT scheme (albeit all year round) and is proof in my eyes that whether you believe such initiatives work for the restaurants or not the punters buy in and the schemes do add up in business terms. Hi-Life is a dining club scheme that generally offers two for one meals at off-peak times. It has around 40,000 members (normally people dine as a couple so they claim 80,000 dining members) and around 1,500 restaurants signed up. It started in the North West so is strongest there but it is making inroads in Yorkshire and has an eye for a nationwide expansion. Some restaurants rate it. Most of their costs are fixed so a two for one pair of meals on a quiet Tuesday lunch (with the hopeful word of mouth/repeat business that will bring) doesn't hit the pocket too much and could pay dividends. Others think it is "simply giving food away!" and is therefore a sign of stupidity or desperation. Hi-Life has been built up steadily over 20 years so there's no denying the format works for the punters. As for Hi-Life itself think of the maths: Costs - A small team selling the idea to restaurants (who don't have to pay, just sign up); consumer marketing largely contra-ed cost-free through regional media; a smattering of overheads and the production of the cards themselves and the annual restaurant directory. Revenues - Around 40,000 members annually at approx £45 a go...? That's some profit margin. No wonder Chairman David Heely always looks chirpy when I see him. As part of there marketing they also produce stats as to the annual spend on eating out by their members and the numbers are hugely impressive (as you would expect them to be!). You know what though? Despite the fact that I eat out all over the North West more than most I know, I haven't signed up. The scheme does polarise local chefs and restaurateurs, and as through my business I work with a lot of them, the cost of the odd extra (tax deductible!) meal is well worth it to avoid the risk of getting up their noses. Cheers Thom"

Arghh... I was going to try not to get sucked into the whole Michelin thing again but I just can't let it go unanswered... I did post in reply to someone flagging up the Crain's article on another website forum (like an eGullet for architecture) but I now feel compelled to drop it in here too (apologies for the repetition of points made elsewhere on eGullet): "That Michelin article rehashes some lazy and unsubstantiated arguments and is just plain wrong on several points. I don't post a huge amount on here (though I lurk obsessively) as I consider myself a bit of a mere wide-eyed novice in the world of architecture but on the subject of restaurants, and more specifically Manchester restaurants, I know my onions. And, indeed, my shallots. I have debated, analysed and argued (and deliberated and cogitated) the issue of "Why does Manchester not have a Michelin star?" on more occassions than I care to remember, and here are my thoughts (for what they are worth) on the varied elements that make up the debate: Does a Michelin star even matter? Lord knows the Michlein system has it's faults, and that Michelin dining is not the be all and end all, but it bestows national and international recognition upon a city for a certain demographic of tourists and business people who tend to be affluent, important and influential. This is no bad thing. So Manchester's restaurant scene is poor? Nope, Manchester has consistently had a broader, deeper and more varied restaurant scene than anywhere else outside London. Check any restaurant guide, from The Good Food Guide, to the AA, to Hardens, to Egon Ronay, and Manchester always has more entries than any other city. It's strengths are ethnic restaurants (EastZEast, The Yang Sing, Red Chilli), smart mid-market operations (Croma, Piccolino, Luso), and slick, trendy, sceney places (Restaurant Bar and Grill, Grill on the Alley, Harvey Nichols). It also has it's share of quirky food ventures (Love Saves The Day, Barburrito, Soup Kitchen) and has been a breeding ground for successful nationwide roll-outs (Living Room, Est Est Est, La Tasca). So Manchester doesn't have a market for Michelin? Bollocks. There are more than enough people in and around Manchester (not to mention the business and leisure tourists) who would keep a Michelin star restaurant going. To suggest otherwise is utter rubbish. I speak to enough Mancunian dwellers each month who grumble about having to travel for their food kicks to sustain a restaurant here in our city. So why did Le Mont et al fail? Because they were not the right businesses. Far be it from me to criticise individual operators but I can tell you that on a variety of levels Establishment, Le Mont (and Reform, and The Cotton House etc etc) were fundamentally flawed and this is well know by anyone in the Manchester restaurant industry. But why can't people get it right? Because creating a successful restaurant is tough. Creating a successful restaurant at a fine-dining level is exacting. To do all of this and then jump through the hoops demanded (or not demanded, as their criteria are never revealed) by Michelin is nothing short of excruciating, and that is why so few manage it. So what do we do? You cannot give a city a star from the top down just by claiming a "market". This is not some commoditised economics niche that will be filled by market forces. Nor can it be "taught" as the Mersey Partnership recently tried to do for it's aspiring chef-patrons. It will also not come from big business claiming that they are going to "bring" us a Michelin star. The biggest failing in this city is for money men to think that paying through the nose for an all-singing all-dancing operation in a prime site with excruciating rent and rates and a hired gun of a chef and an opening party full of footballers and soap stars is the way to bring a star to Manchester. It isn't. The only way we will get a star is for it to come from one person. A chef. A chef, who has the talent, the wit and the commitment to make it happen. It would require them to take a gamble on a small off-piste site (30-40 covers so they only need the chef patron, plus a sous, KP and FOH) and to do nothing more than put his/her head down and cook like a bastard at the most phenomenal level until a small but appreciative audience finds them and word starts to spread. I would point to Anthony Flynn in Leeds (though ironically he has missed out on a star to general suprise) as a template for how this could be achieved. He also fulfills my belief that the only person commited enough to really try and break through culinary barriers in a given city is a local boy/girl. Otherwise, if you have no ties or loyalty, why not just jack it in and go somewhere easier? So who is our Mancunian Messiah? Interesting point, as we DO need one. Look at all the "flagship" high-end chefs in the surrounding cities. Often they are the only chefs of note within their town and dominate the market. Liverpool has Paul Askew (Hope St Hotel, London Carriage Works, 60 Hope St etc) - local boy made good. Leeds has Anthony Flynn (Anthonys, Anthony's at Flannels, Anthony's Patesserie etc) - local boy made good. Newcastle has Terry Laybourne (Jesmond Dene House Hotel, various cafes restaurants and delis) - local boy made good. Take any of those individuals out of their hometowns and dining offering is substantially weakened. For us here in Manchester? My tip of those chefs currently operating in the city would be David Gale at the Hilton (ex of Nico, Soho House New York, Rosetti, Selfridges and City Inn), Robert Owen Brown (ex of Sams Chophouse, Lounge Ten, The Bridge) or Alison Seagrave (Harvey Nichols). Otherwise maybe as with Anthony (who returned to Leeds from El Bulli, one of the world's greatest restaurants, where he is the only English guy ever to get accepted for a paid stage) some exiled Mancunian will return home and lead us to the gastronomic promised land... But why is it just Manchester that struggles? It is NOT merely a Manchester problem. Look at the spread of stars in the UK. London has a stack, obviously. Aside from that the vast majority are in rural areas (normally touristy), affluent towns or suburbs as this is where the operational economics stack up. Besides that? Well, an interesting pattern. Birmingham currently has a single star (they recently lost one, and arguably the one they retained isn't even in the city centre proper) but after that it appears you have to be a "capital" city. Edinburgh has a star in it's CBD. As does Dublin. London, as mentioned, has loads. Even Belfast has one! But... Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield, Nottingham, Bristol, Southhampton, Brighton and Cardiff - not one of them has a star to its name. Many of these cities have all the elements you would expect would be need to support a star (affluent populations, decent tourism, big business communities) yet don't. Is it the pull of visitors that the kudos of being a capital bestows that makes such a restaurant more viable? Now that I don't know, but the take home message is that Manchester, although a city that deserves and needs a star, is not off the pace or underperforming and has many strengths to applaud in restaurant terms. Ahhh... I feel better now I have vented and got that of my chest. It just irritates me. The whole Michelin star schtick has become a stick to beat Manchester with and it's become a truism through repetition which is rehashed and reheated by all manner of journalists, many of whom should know better, on a regular basis. Cheers Thom"

Bless, I tee them up for you to knock them in! Cheers Thom

Possibly a typo, but actually suprisingly accurate - It's Bapi in charge OR co-ordination, the two are mutually exclusive. I jest, obviously. The ball is well and truly in the court of the Bap-meister. A safe pair of hands if ever there were. Cheers Thom

Oh Bapi, I am still piecing together tattered fragments of that night. I keep having flashbacks, like something from Apocalypse Now... Equally disturbingly, some elements of that night will never leave me. No matter how hard I try to find a happy place... And yes, Shaun Hill is responsible for my ever-increasing girth and my ever more parlous financial state. Damn him, damn him to heck. I'll never forgive him. Unless he makes that monkfish, cucumber and mustard dish for me again. Finally, I say you're spot on, let's open it up to a general Mancunian eGullet soiree. Or Northwestern? Or Northern? Bapi, as you've kindly put yourself forward as diary-coordinator extraordinaire (well you are unemployed) I shall wait to hear from you in due course! Cheers Thom

Ah, those crazy fools at the MEN. They also gave Grado five stars (though in their defense I swear it was great in it's opening weeks!) So who do your trust? National reviewer, local reviewer or your own fine judgement? I'm assuming you haven't been to The Modern yet RDB so I say come for lunch with me*; I don't need much excuse to make a return visit! I don't expect you to pull any punches with your views so I hereby do promise to take any criticism on the chin (as long as you let me explain why the last eGullet lunch at Juniper sadly didn't even inspire a write-up on here). PM me if you fancy it. Cheers Thom *I admit the fact it's with me may be offputting rather than a selling point.

Ah, yes, Luso! And for that matter The French. I forgot those two. I don't think either attracted the ravingly ecstatic style of review that Red Chilli got, so maybe Manchester is faring even less well than I hoped. I think from memory of the reviews I liked Luso less than Jay, but I was suprised that he seemed to like the French more than I thought he might. As to the tenor of his reviews Jay has an intensely annoying habit of absolutely nailing the pitch and context of his reviews in a way which makes them impossible to argue with. I have no dispute, sadly, with his Grado experience, or for that matter any of his other Manchester missives. As you say the Juniper review was largely positive - i don't think many people could fail to be engaged by Paul or his style of cooking - but for a Michelin star restaurant a review which contains the phrases "Did I really like all this stuff? Well, yes and no", "a splatter gun approach which undermined the effect" and "more than a slight weakness" can not be deemed a total success. As ever though, Jay pretty much summed it up with "And that was a shame because, hidden inside this clattering menu, was a truly stunning meal fighting to get out." Spot on. Although I'd stuggle to name all 30 odd dishes I remember to this day a handful of truly stunning plates of food including a early doors shot of mango and beetroot, a saddle of hare, a magical piece of salmon, and the namechecked hot cross bun souffle which was a work of genius. Hohum, once the doors close I guess it will be to Fraiche or a trek to the outstanding L'Enclume for me if I fancy some seriously off-pieste and stimulating cooking. I shall watch with great interest to see who replaces Paul. Could it be a Mechant House type situation all over again? Cheers Thom

Yes, Grado was an upsetting experience. The more so because previously I had had two excellent meals there, and I was keen to show Jay a non-typical Manchester experience. Sadly, so soon after opening some serious and frustrating variabilities seem to have manifested themselves. Service is warm but inconsistent, and the it's pot luck as to the success of the dishes you get. The morcilla and duck egg, quail, and creme catalan are fantastic, the tomato bread, the squid and the treatment of some of the hams are appalling. Jay has, by his own commited to paper admission, had some wonderful experiences in Manchester though. Namely at The Bridge (RIP), Mr Thomas' Chophouse and Red Chill (all three long term favourites of mine). He's also had more mixed and ultimately unsatisfying experiences at Grado, Juniper and Dilli. I think that brings Manchester out at a 50/50 hit rate. "Could do better", as my teacher used to say... Ahah, apart of course from the time at Vernons, the Caribbean place in Rusholme, which was probably one of the worst meals of both of our lives. But to be fair he chose that so he brought it on himself. Cheers Thom

Kutsu, Hope you have a great time. The lunch menu is online at http://www.themodernmcr.co.uk/restaurant_menu.pdf. From experience, my tip is to quit whilst you are ahead after leaving Urbis sated, instead on carrying on in Mr Creosote fashion through Grado and Red Chilli... Cheers Thom

You did indeed eat shredded chilli pigs maw! I even double-checked with the waiter what it was, as by that point my mind seemed a tad fuzzy and I had lost track of what we had eaten. It was good though. I'd have it again next time. Cheers Thom

Malcolm, I meant to say earlier that I'm glad you enjoyed your lunch. Always nice when a recommendation works out for a visitor to our fair city. Impressive too that you could find it unaided, unlike Gary, who managed to ignore my sterling instructions - "turn right onto Cross St, it's 100m down on the left" to amble off straight across Cross St, and then slightly to the left, in search off other random glass buildings... Next time you're in Manchester give the lamb chilli broth at Red Chilli a go. Cheers Thom

Ah, Gary plunges in first with the review. I should have guessed it would be he, as Bapi's memory seemed to fizzle out towards the end of the night. Just to fill in some of the dishes in and around Gary's rather neat summing up: We did indeed linger in the bar, but once Bapi had led us in a round of timepiece-comparing we made our way down to the restaurant. I had the hen's egg on the corned beef hash cake which is a new favourite of mine. Beautiful soft fibres of beef and a wonderfully runny egg, both knitted together by a beautifully intense veal stock reduction. My main was the slow roast loin of lamb with winter veg. A few mixed reviews on this one so far - and opinions on whether such a prime cut needed slow cooking - so I was keen to see if they had tweaked the dish. Both I, and Bapi (who nicked some) though the lamb was cooked to perfection; wonderfully tender and juicy. The liquor was also warming and intense, and the veg and whole roast garlic cloves kept the interest up till the last mouthful. My dessert (which Bapi and Gary stole - there is a running theme here) was a favourite of mine, the quince tart. As usual is was excellent with crisp flaky tatin style pastry, and it met with universal approval around the table. Wines were excellent, as we left the choices in the hands on Gary the wine-nerd. The lack of the 1973 Cantermerle caused some gnashing of teeth because at this price it seemed an unbelivable bargain. Service was sweet but terribly nervy. A request for a decanter for the red caused some confusion, as did our attempt to pay the bill and the tip split three ways across three cards. Following that is was Trof for beer, then Sam's chophouse for a bottle of red, the identity of which escapes me. Next up was another beer. Then Grado, where it was sherry time, along with some assorted hams and a couple of tapas which are beyond my recall. The final stint took us to Red Chilli (with a beer next door whilst we waited for our table, natch) where we had the time-honoured chill lamb broth, as well as spring onion bread, shredded chilli pigs maw and maybe another dish or so just to make sure we didn't go hungry. Then a gin and tonic at The City Inn whilst we waited for trains. It may have been this which tipped me over the edge. Then home, eventually, for a wafer thin mint and a well earned sleep. I awoke the next morning at 6:30 am to my one year old sitting in a cot full of vomit, from which he was picking and eating the more appetising looking morsels in an absent minded way. A heart-felt thank you to my better half who let me cry off and slink back to bed for an hour. Cheers Thom

Ah fair do's to them then. That may have conjured a story out of coincidence, conjecture, imagination/fabrication, old bottle tops and a bent paper clip but at least they didn't serve up reheated quotes from many years ago. For that I salute them. And seriously, come to Manchester and be our gastronomic messiah, strewing Michelin stars in your wake... Cheers Thom

To be fair he's not just an employee, he's a shareholder in the company, Soups Ltd, which owns the business. I don't know many people who've stayed in a job for twelve years but I know plenty of people who have run their own companies for twelve years where they have been shareholders. I'm not sure if Altrincham is a natural place for a two star restaurant but equally you could have said the same thing about Winteringham Fields (hinterlands of North Lincs/outskirts of Hull). "If you build it they will come"! Possibly... Interestingly the Manchester Evening news had a (none) story today that because Matthew Tompkinson started his career in Altrincham and had said he would love to bring a star to the city he could be lined up as the next chef. Probably nothing more than the typical Evening News "2+2=hatstand" approach to journalism. That said, come on Matthew, take the plunge! Brown sauce on your bacon butties, proper kebabs, Red Chilli, all the cow-heel and tripe you can eat! Follow your heart to the grim North! Cheers Thom

Matthew, you were quoted on the Diary pages of the Manchester Evening News today! They have tied in a quote where you said you would love to "bring Michelin starred cooking to Manchester" (lord knows how old that might be) with the fact that you started your career in Altrincham, and the additional though unrelated fact that Paul Kitching at Juniper is selling up. Well if the fact-lite bastion of piss-poor reporting says it's true then I shall expect you in the city anon! Cheers Thom

Exactly. As long as you don't seat them next to the knife block or on the wok-burner then all is well. I forgot to mention that the best thing about dough is explaining to your child that yeast is efffectively a tiny animal which is too small to see and which is asleep until the warm water wakes it up. My eldest tried his best to get his fledgeling intellect around such a concept and the smallest animal he could imagine were beetles, meaning he was intrigued as to where the "shells" went when you cooked the dough. The world is a wonderful place when you are four. Cheers Thom

I see a need for a difference in approach between the under tens (getting children sampling, and creating a general interest and curiousity about food) to the over tens (building on all of the aforementioned points, but also getting creating dishes they can cook and prep themselves). I don't have any direct involvement in cooking in education (though I do indirectly, through our work with catering colleges etc) but I do get my four year old absolutely immersed in what goes on in our kitchen. It goes without saying that anything sweet is a winner (cakes, biscuits etc) but for boys at least I find anything gory is a hit. excavating the flesh from a cooked crab (and pulling the tendons that make their claws work), gutting fish, prepping a squid (and doing Zoidberg impressions with it's tenatacles) all go down a treat. Often he isn't overly keen on the end result but I think it's good he's in the process. Also, bread/pizza dough is fantastic. It's just one step up from play-doh really. It smells good, it feels good and you get to whack it and stretch it about. In fact a favourite game is to sculpt a tiny dough man, rip the main dough open (it pleasingly resembles a jaggedy monster mouth) and then pop the little guy inside before squishing the mouth shut and pounding the whole thing to oblivion. Kids tend to like the end results of anything doughy too which is good. Fresh bread is always well received (especially if dried fruit is added), garlic bread never fails, and of course every kid likes arranging toppings on pizzas. I actually find if you have your child on a chair on even the sideboard (breaking every health and safety rule in the book) they get huge pleasure from getting involved in the simplest elements of cooking - adding dribbles of this or spoonfuls of that, and sprinkling in seasonings. Of course the results can be a little haphazard so it pays to steer clear of recipies which depend on ultra-accurate measuring. Maybe just a boy thing again but cooking which involves "tools", utensils or equipment is also always a hit. Scales, rolling pins, pizza cutters, can-openers etc etc. It's when my son is grinning and giggling with joy at the countless strings of potato being extruded from the ricer than I realise I am still pretty much a four year old in the kitchen... Cheers Thom

Take a paper. Always take a paper. With a copy of The Grauniad or The Times I could sit anywhere, for hours on end, happily alone, watching the world go by. Oh, that's another prerequisite. Get a spot with a view. Lone dining is all about people watching whilst reading/pretending to read said paper. I actually love lone dining, and often try to fit a luxurious solo lunch in to my business trips to London. I find the zen-style solitude a vital counterbalance to a hectic work life and an equally hectic home life. I was quite impressed that the last time I had a walk-in early evening dinner at The Ivy (solus, natch) the restaurant manager brought over a selection of papers, unprompted, as soon as I was seated. Now there is a man who understands lone dining. Cheers Thom

Welcome Oliver, you've broken your posting duck! City Inn can be quiet (the curse of midweek hotel dining) but is/was very good. This could all change once the chef, David Gale, leaves in the next month or so so get in there quick. Lounge Ten is fine, but I always feel it is about the fun rather than the food. It can be buzzy and intimate (crammed!) at prime times but might be a bit dark for lunchtime dining (and the "erotic" murals could be off-putting). I too rate Harvey Nichols. The restaurant is expensive but the brasserie, though exposed and a bit of a corridor, is a reliable standby. Linen is all over the place, from very good to very poor in one sitting. Cheers Thom

What City Inn needs is a chef now David Gale is off. What the City Inn bar needs is a door. A bloody big one. Facing towards Piccadilly approach/London Road. It is absolute insanity that they have a prime site facing one of the highest foot-fall routes in Manchester adjacent to the main commuter station and the whole hotel is orientated away from it, facing onto a side-street. The bar faces onto the main drag but has no entrance and minimal windows. No-one realises even realises it is there. A monumentally missed opportunity. In the locale I find the service in Malmaison can be appalling, as could Rossetti (soon to be Abode) so City Inn could, at the very least, have become the default place for commuters to grab a couple of drinks before getting on the train. I did hear that they were going to knock a door through to the street, but nothing so far. Madness. Cheers Thom

Charming ← Ah yes, there is nothing like learning more about the grim commercial realities of the seemingly quaint fishing industry to potential put you off fish. Luckily my constitution is pretty robust so in spite of completing a degree in Marine Biology at Liverpool University my appetite for all things fishy remains undiminished. My favourite "dinner party disruptor" is to explain the concept of how shell-fish eat. Largely, they are filter-feeders. Therefore they whip through huge volumes of sea-water to gather enough sustenance to keep them going. In effect, they are "miniture-stuff-concentrating-machines". Suddenly the idea that "Yes we pump the sea full of heavy metals, sewage and assorted pathogens and chemicals but don't worry it gets really, really diluted" doesn't sound so reassuring. These calcium encased little buggers are undoing all our "good" work! And yes, at one point (though no longer I am assured) fishermen used to intensively farm mussels etc by siting them around sewage outflows where they would fatten up in record time like foie gras geese. For your average bivalve, which would clap it's shell with glee merely by chancing upon a particularly filling zooplankton, to be sited in a opaque "poo soup" which was thick with tasty organic matter was just one big party. If it makes you feel any better they were eventually moved to clearer water or specialised cleaning pools to be "flushed out" before they entered the supply chain. So that's alright then. More moules mariniere anyone? No? Just me then... Cheers Thom

I'm gutted for Marc on this score. Don't forget though ChrisP, (Greater) Manchester already has a star at Juniper in Altrincham, which is as Mancunian as Oxton is Liverpudlian! Kind of stunned that Winteringham Fields lost their star. I had heard very good things about it recently and I know Ryan Simpson will bet really disappointed. Is there a list of lost stars up yet? Cheers Thom

No no, there is no dispute about the airport's importance as a employer, driver of inward investment etc etc, my point was purely about distorted tourism figures. Yes, exactly, that's the badger. Cheers Thom