Craig Camp

In general I find olive oil just does not produce a soffrito with right richness and I much prefer butter for most risotti. Also I find stock (in the French sense) too strong for the risotto technique. It Italy they use a brodo or broth that is more delicately flavored than stock. While chicken broth is acceptable, beef broth makes a more complex dish.

Claude, Just a few weeks ago I opened a '90 Volnay, 1er Cru from Hubert de Montille. This wine was nothing short of spectacular. Still dark in color and rich in fruit - still a baby, but oh such a pleasure to drink. Most of all it was like a concentrated essence of pinot noir. An experience getting harder and harder to find these days. Is Burgundy going to go the way of Barolo?

Bean soups are common today throughout Italy, but they are a little more common as you move south. Tuscany is of course famous for all types of bean dishes. Venetian Bean Soup is most probably not actually a Venetian dish but somebody liked the name at some point. Pasta e Fagoli is now served throughout Italy but was not born in the north, but in most likely somewhere in central Italy. I would say that Jim's idea is probably right on the money. Without more specific information is is hard to determine what this dish actually is - and let's face it Italian restaurants in the USA use names because the sound good, not always because they are authentic.

Tunina, As salting water is the conventional wisdom this is a very interesting concept. I agree with you that salting the water for fresh pasta as compared to dried pasta is a totally different concept, but I find that heavily salting the water for dried pasta seems to bring it alive. This is especially true if adding relatively light amounts of sauce in the Italian style. As far as cheese goes, how does that work if you are having a seafood or porcini sauce where cheese would not usually be used?

I believe there is a major point being missed here. Yes, risotto is a dish, but most of all it a cooking technique that is applied to unique varieties of rice. You may be able to make a very nice rice dish with the microwave technique, but it is not risotto. Neither are the short cut versions served in so many restaurants both outside and in Italy. The reason for this is straightforward and based in the character of the rice in Italy. The three major types of Italian rice used for risotto (carnaroli, arborio and vialone nano) share the unique characteristics of a grain consisting of a soft outer starch surrounding a hard inner kernel of starch. It is this soft outside starch that is released by the gradual adding of broth and the gentle continuous stirring. It is this breakdown of the rice kernel that makes risotto attain its beautiful creamy texture. While the soft outside gradually breaks down the harder inner kernel remains giving risotto a firm (al dente) texture and a creamy consistency at the same time. Without this technique this transformation cannot happen. I am not intending to insult other methods, but as good as they may taste they are not risotto and that name should not be used anymore than the name Barolo should be used for California nebbiolo.

This is a very large category. Where do his interests lie? Not only are there many types of affettati but every region is distinct.

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I believe Adam is right on the mark. We are talking about cooking not duplicating a chemistry experiment.

Just like there are plenty of bad restaurants in Italy there are also plenty of lousy ingredients. Italy is a wonderful place but not paradise. Have you ever listened to the radio stations? Believe me every home cook in Italy is not a great cook contrary to the popular viewpoint - and their own opinion of themselves. There are many people willing to buy and eat mediocre food. The availability of bad ingredients is increasing rapidly with the rapid rise of giant supermarkets buying industrial food products is driving artisans out of business. Bickering over how to prepare a local specialty is the birthright of every Italian and more popular than soccer.

Adam is correct that regional dishes in Italy often don't travel well even to other regions of Italy. It is just perhaps easier for a foreigner to notice the more dramatic difference between Ticino and Italy than the more subtle difference between Romagna and Emilia. Raw materials are one variable but the customers are another. One of the main changes that takes place in a cuisine when transported to a new market and served to foreign customers are the very expectations of the customers themselves. Any smart restaurateur or chef will go out of their way to make the food pleasing - even at the expense of authenticity.

Sometimes truth is in the smallest details. The way you handle the tomato will change the final texture of the dish.

No sure that you can seperate: 'Regional production of excellent quality mozzarella results in consumption of excellent mozzarella" from "Regional demand for consumption of excellent mozzarella induces production of excellent mozzarella". Hence, 'attitude' is of central importance. But this is spliting hairs. Ah - but it is a good hair to split. Part of the reason regional ingredients in Italy are of such high quality is that virtually eveyone in the region is an expert who demands only the finest.

This thread could be useful!

From our home near Varese it is just 30 minutes drive to the beautiful town of Lugano in Switzerland. The menus look the same but the food is certainly different - even the gelato is not quite as good. I do not believe there is a difference in the food products the restaurants can buy. One thing that is different is the people. Our Italian friends who grew up here on the border with Switzerland consider themselves in no way Swiss and the Ticino Swiss you meet just over the border consider themselves Swiss not Italian. It is these distinct and real cultural differences that make the people a little different from one another and this in turn changes their food - if only slightly.

Sorry if I missed the humor. Getting in these debates with Steve can test your sense of humor. There was someting familar about Steve's argument style but I just couldn't put my finger on it - until last night while watching the following skit on an old Monty Python tape: M: (Knock) A: Come in. M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument? A: I told you once. M: No you haven't. A: Yes I have. M: When? A: Just now. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't A: I did! M: You didn't! A: I'm telling you I did! M: You did not!! A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? M: Oh, just the five minutes. A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did. M: You most certainly did not. A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you. M: No you did not. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't. A: Did. M: Oh look, this isn't an argument. A: Yes it is. M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction. A: No it isn't. M: It is! A: It is not. M: Look, you just contradicted me. A: I did not. M: Oh you did!! A: No, no, no. M: You did just then. A: Nonsense! M: Oh, this is futile! A: No it isn't. M: I came here for a good argument. A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. M: An argument isn't just contradiction. A: It can be. M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. A: No it isn't. M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' A: Yes it is! M: No it isn't! M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. (short pause) A: No it isn't. M: It is. A: Not at all. M: Now look. A: (Rings bell) Good Morning. M: What? A: That's it. Good morning.

I am sure that Nanni was a great guy worthy of all respect. What does that have to do with this conversation?

I am afraid that this is a discussion about Italian cuisine - not Italian-American cuisine which is quite a different beast. The waiter's comment is certainly a clear sign that neither the waiter or the restaurant had any connection to serious Italian cooking. I pity the people that were paying out their hard earned dollars for food in a place with such an attitude. The statement that this restaurant was "widely regarded as the best Italian restaurant in town in the seventies." cannot be considered a compliment.

If by supermarket bought you mean dried pasta - the answer is it depends on the sauce.

I think you will find that Franco had a collection of Vega that would make you turn green.

I am happy to have Indian food brought into this conversation. Like Indian food, Italian food is often misunderstood based on preconceived notions and the belief that it is easy to touch and understand a culture and a cuisine based on relatively few experiences. Your comments only raise the level of the discussion.

I have brought this up before and I will say it again. Eating has changed in Italy. People often only select 2 out of the 3 traditional courses. It is extremely common for Italians to order only an antipasto and a secondo; or only primo and secondo; or only a antipasto and a primo. Certainly this has long been the case when dining at home. Don't forget when visiting a country as a tourist you tend to want to always go full boat because you can't get those things at home. This does not mean the locals eat that way on a daily basis.

Are not the best wines made by winemakers who intervene as little as possible? Certainly they have the same knowledge of technique as those winemakers making mass market wines which are created using only technology and technique. The art is knowing when to leave something alone.

Says who? That thread is on the way.

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