Suvir Saran

You owe me nothing. You are far too kind and gracious. Thanks! The Indian forum like India and most any other culture one tries to study, shall continue to live, a person or two or many hundred millions could be ignored by those outside that land, but they still matter where they live, thrive, die and breathe.. And knowing that is what makes India and its Indian forum on eGullet thrive... the beauty of Indias resillience and also the mysterious ways in which it affects you and changes you... I am told by my dear friend Gael Greene that Italy is quite similar. She is a fan of both these countries and their foods.... they also happen to be two cuisines that inspire me more than most any other... But then there are desserts.. and French desserts are my weakness.. and there are dumplings (of course Chinese) that make me stop doing whatever occupies me, so I can indulge in them totally and get lost into what all must enrich the Chinese culture that something so simple can be so powerful..... and so many other dishes from so many other cultures have similar impact on me ... The Indian forum would love to have your visits, but it would be just as happy thriving alongside a rich and lively Italian forum. That would be even better... I would be happy just reading more of this forums great offerings from the amazing and rich world of Italian food and wine. If you can keep up this great work, you would make many like me very happy. You would owe nothing more to anybody.. If they enjoy your forum even half as much as I do. I am all eyes and ears to learn from you and all others that share in this forum. I have loved Italian food... no matter what name people assign to it, home or haute, I am a fan and in love with it. And I thank you for this forum Craig.

This is one of my all time favorite desserts. Have had several versions of this. What should a novice home cook know about this dessert? Is there a basic recipe that could be of help here? Where should one go for the best of its kind in the US? Where in the world could one get a sampling of some of the best panna cottas?

Stuck in Denver for personal reasons that are grave and serious, I wish I could have been in Italy enjoying the meal you describe. Sounds wonderful and the desserts sound amazing. Can you share more about them please? Nothing like inspired simple home cooking for me. It is that which I miss in Denver.

Thanks for this recipe Jim. I shall try and find some in Denver.

Ditto! A great treat for the family to enjoy when wanting to be indulged or to take as a hostess gift for a special person. We have had a thread on meyer lemon marmalade I believe... Will try looking for the link.

I would think it should work very well. It would certainly need far less syrup for my taste. Remember they are sweeter... The recipe you share sounds wonderful...

Thanks Steve! Rocco would not qualify. I need French chefs based and practicing or who practiced in France. If they have books out, even better. The chefs do not need to have "mastered" the usage of spices, if they have, even better... but I am not sure if spices matter to this genre of chefs. But this will be a learning and documenting process for me... so I am looking to learn... And thanks for your help Steve... I appreciate all the help I can get here.

I am not looking only for names of chefs that rely heavily (not even sure there any of these. I am not assuming spices make this cuisine better. Clarifying so my words are not creating any confusion) on eastern spices, but even those that have made flirtations with them... perhaps even only for some time. They could have gone back to non-spice based cuisine, or could have incorporated them into their genre... All I need are names of French chefs that have been open to experimenting with them. If there are some that are famous, even better for me. I am working on a non-food related project for which this is part of my research. When and if I do write my paper, those that have helped me here, will certainly be mentioned.

Steven did you not read the last sentence of my post???? " Do spices even matter to the best of these chefs?" I am not assuming anything. I did not suggest anything. I only asked questions. No judgment was made for or against the use of spices. But if you have any clue about any French chef using spices, or being interested in doing so, please share that feedback. I hope we do not get derailed in an unending agruement about which cuisine of the world is superior ...that is not information I want or need. I am trying to work on a piece that involves my locating French chefs that have worked with spices and created a cuisine that is uniquely their own while borrowing from the world of spices. I am not going to make any assumption that the process of adding spices to their repertpoire has made them better or worse as chefs. I need to only find these chefs. And it is at that point that my learning process shall begin.

Answers anyone????

Which French chefs living today would you think of when wanting to name French chefs that have mastered the art of cooking with Indian spices? Are there any such chefs? Where do they practice? What have they done with spices that is new? Have they used any age old secrets known to Indian grandmas in their own kitchens? How did they find out these secrets? Are there books that share them? Are there books that these French chefs have written which detail this journey into the world of spices? Do spices even matter to the best of these chefs?

Thanks for the post. Ranjit Rai's book is very informative. And has all the tandoor related lore that one would need. Some good pictures of this oven as also the history related to it. Care to share the name of your restaurant? Location? You have me very intrigued.

I have two of his books..... they are books I could not ever imagine reading in one sitting.... I have read through them over the years.. I think... not sure, that I have read all of both of them... and many times over of some of the parts... they are very dry... and sometimes very antiquated, but yet, something about them is still critical for the study of Indian food... At least till something new is written that covers some of that information.

Achayas books are a good source to understand the history of India with a narrow culinary view point. I am afraid, I have not yet found a book that has done even remote justice to the evolution of Indian food. Madhur Jaffrey has done a great deal in her cookbooks. But other than that, we only have Achaya to fall back on. Are there others we should know about? Anyone???

Indiagirl, this will be a great thread. You could find more links (to old threads) in the thread called Indian food for dummies. One such thread is here. And also the one Sandra gives a link to.

Thanks Lori. We frequent Masala. And the servers are very nice. Both the young man from the North and the Southern Indian lady that we most often find there. Actually, we have not gone there too often lately since I have been making Southern Indian food at home. Yes, the Dosas, Sambhaar (lentil stew served with Idlis and Dosas), Coconut Chutney and the potato bhaji are far superior at home.. so the gang much prefers it made by me or mom. Funny how most eat anywhere from 5-8 dosas each at home.. and only 1 at Masala or any restaurant.... I love the Idlis at Masala. They are SUPERB. As good as some of the best I have eaten in India. Much better than any I have eaten in NYC. For real. I must try Maruti Narayan and India House. Thanks for the lead.

Grandma Hayes' Cornbread From the cornbread thread. 1 package Jiffy Mix 1/3 c flour 1/2 tsp freshly ground black peppercorn 1/4 tsp salt 1/4 tsp cayenne 2 Serrano chiles, very finely minced Kernels from 2 corns on the cobs (did I write this correctly?) 1 egg Buttermilk, just enough to make a mix that resembles muffin batter 3/4 stick of butter This is what I did: I preheated oven to 350?F. In an 8 inch round baking tin I melted the butter. When it was melted, I pulled it out and sat it on the stove. I mixed all the dry ingredients and the minced pepper together. Added the eggs and buttermilk together and mixed quickly and lightly. Put the tin back in the oven for a couple of minutes, when the butter was hot again, I brought the tin out, poured the batter into it, moved the tin around so that the melted butter that had come on top of batter was evenly distributed all over the batter. Baked for 35 minutes until the top was beginning to get golden and the toothpick came out dry. Placed the tin on a wire rack for 10 minutes. Turned over onto a platter (Bottom side up.. Grandma said that is tradition) and rubbed the cake (the bottom now the top) with the remainder of the butter stick. Keywords: Intermediate, American, Bread ( RG238 )

Awbrig, There chocolate cake has legendary status with many. Not sure how tasty it is..but it certainly is the LARGEST slice of cake I have ever seen. It is actually tooo MUCH. I know a restaurant group that wanted their chefs to copy this dessert... and they actually did. It was much smaller than Gibsons..and yet it was HUGE. Maybe I ought to try it again... the last time I tasted it, the chocolate was ok.. nothing great.

I was shocked the first time I say those desserts.... HUGE... Himalayan in scale... Have you had any of the other desserts? Do you have pics of them? Thanks for the pics.... You have a very precious family.

Are there dishes you would wish to taste? Dishes that would be perfect for this last meal?

Nation Geographic Traveler is doing a story on what the last meal would be for several food writers. I guess the world has been made to think of last "things" in these times. Is this thread meant to explore what each of us would eat at our last meal? To name the restaurant (if that is where we would like to eat this meal, instead of a home) where this meal would be? To name a last dish?

Simon your suggestion is what most peopl that have loved lobster Indian style have enjoyed. It is nice making them in a creamy sauce (kurma or makhani) or then the Southern Indian style of sauces. Yours is what I have found most Indians and Non-Indians enjoying the most. You have a way with giving the best recipes. Thanks!

Lissome, many, many thanks. I shall print what you posted. Thanks to all others as well. Hospital time is behind us as a family. Dad is home.. and we are cooking with him in mind in our own kitchen. He eats like a bird, it is a challenge to make things that will excite his palate. And you know, spices, are what inspire him to try and eat more.. and so carefully (so as to try and maintain the mineral count in his blood) we cook things that will help him get nutrition, while still giving him a good meal.

The history of Indian cooking Indian Cuisine as Haute Cuisine Getting to know Indian food On comprehending Indian cuisine Fusion Food -Profoundly Dishonest - Discuss Restaurant Cooking vs. Home Cooking

Inspite of Nerissa's excellent company, I feel compelled to make a brief foray out of the "I give up" state. And only because I feel very misrepresented. And I certainly have never played the race card. Also, I apologize to everyone who is here to discuss spices because I think if anywhere, this post belongs in that other thread we have all participated in "The Measure of All Things". Steve, please read this with patience and an open mind. Also, with the realization that I have ZERO incentive for making you think better of Indian food. Personally, I don't give a fuck. Really. The only reason I am here, is the same reason I am on eGullet. It is a place for someone like me who loves food to hear about and learn from others about things I have not been able to experience myself. And to share and revel in common experiences. That is what I am trying to do here. Learn about French haute cuisine from you and hope that you will learn something about Indian cuisine from me. I believe the former has happened and the latter has not. Yes, there are people on this thread who are partial to Indian food. That does not make their arguments invalid or unreasoned. This is what they have collectively said about it: 1. It is complex. Sometimes because of the spices. Other times because of the cooking techniques. 2. There are "haute cuisine" versions of it available in the east. 3. It is horribly misrepresented in the west. Also, the representations are limited to very specific types of Indian cuisines. 4. For somebody who has only experienced it in the west, Steve's opinions are more or less understandable, but they are only representative of Indian food as typically found in the west. They are not representative of Indian cuisine. 5. To extrapolate about all of Indian cuisine based on having only experienced it in the West is not valid. 6. The reasons that there are more amazing French restaurants in the west than there are Indian, are historical and socio-economic. Now on to tandooris and "wet meat" as you call it. Rubbing meat with spices and cooking it with dry heat is a technique the French use. Tandoori is no different. Even as a vegetarian, I have tasted succulent Tandoori chicken (that is not neon red, btw) - it is not meant to be dry and overcooked. Wet meat - Many Indian curries are no different in concept than a fricasse. The lamb curries I mentioned rarely call for the lamb to be cooked in the sauce for any more than 10-15 minutes. And there are other techniques in Indian food. The use of flour to coat a meat, sweating vegetables, cooking meats whole in a spices broth, etc. Grouping Indian techniques as "Overcooked, dry, tandooris, wet meat" etc. is the equivalent of grouping French food as "Lots of butter and cream, fried or baked hunks of meat, slathered with thickened, fatty sauces". I believe we have, here and on other threads, tried to give you examples of Indian techniques in response to your points about it. I do not understand why they seem to make no difference to your opinion. I believe we have never reached a point where we discussed reasonably whether one technique is more complex than another and what criterion can be used to judge the complexity of a technique. Time. Effort. I would have loved to participate in such a discussion. But we appear to have begun with the conclusion that French food techniques are superior to all and that Indian food techniques are inferior. All facts then seem to get quickly slotted into those conclusions and we proceed to support or defend them. Why a well executed raan is inferior in technique to a Carre de Agneau Persille is what I want to discuss, let the chips fall where they may. Your last sentence in that post - That no matter how good the cuisine he is describing is, it is not high cuisine by the standards we use today. - is why I keep trying to retreat into "I give up" land. Thanks for a great post Indiagirl!