blackp

Yes this should work fine. And for other pressure sensitive items (like sausages) you can keep your eye on the vacuum meter and kill the vacuum at your desired percentage so the human operator can take the place of the vacuum sensor. My supplier is Foodtec who are the Australian distributors for Henkelman. I didn't think it'd be very useful to 99% of readers and they don't even list bags on their web site. At least this one is pretty cheap.

I've had a chamber vacuum machine for 6 or 7 years now and have been asked by many friends and associates for advice on purchasing such a machine. I was asked again only this week and it prompted me to extract all my advice from my sent mail folder and to consolidate it into a single document so I can just forward the document next time I'm asked. My machine is a Henkelman Boxer 42 which is an excellent albeit expensive device. With 20/20 hindsight I would have been just as happy (happier?) with the Boxer 35 which has similar features, but is smaller. Here are some things to consider when thinking of purchasing a chamber vacuum machine: Vacuum control as opposed to timer control. Pulling a specific percentage is preferable to the trial and error of getting the time right. For instance I know that if I set the vacuum to 95% I can bag soup without it boiling over. With a timer based system you would have to have different times depending on the size of the bag of soup. Also with timer control you need to take the size of the product in the chamber into consideration, as a small item will leave more space for air so will take longer to reach the same vacuum than a large item. With vacuum control you just set the desired percentage and let the machine decide how long to keep sucking air out. Soft Air. This feature allows air to gently enter the chamber after the vacuum cycle for a short time prior to opening the valve and letting the outside air in in a rush. This allows the bag to gently form around whatever is inside it rather than coming down on the contents with a bang. Going from 2 Mbar of vacuum to ambient pressure quickly can be quite violent with the bag and its contents jumping about as the pressure equalizes in the chamber with the bag randomly forming around the product as a result. Sealing bar. My machine has a cut-off element and a sealing element, but the way it works it is effectively 2 seals. I get 2 lines of melted plastic about 5mm apart and the outer one facilitates tearing off the excess bag. The only times I have ever had sealing problems were caused by sharp items (pork chop bones etc.) inside the bag - I have never had a seal fail. Indeed the torn off portion of the bag (although it has a narrower section of fused bag than the retained side) makes a bag itself and cannot be torn apart by hand. I have heard a lot of opinion about the requirement for double sealing instead of single seal and cut-off. As mentioned I have never had a seal fail, and the cut off element has a further benefit in that the excess bag is torn away so any food residue on the bag is also discarded. This helps to keep your freezer or sous vide tank clean. 2 Sealing Bars. My machine had an option for this (not retro-installable) and with hindsight I would have ordered it. When doing small items (like single chicken breasts for instance) you could do 4 at a time rather than 2. Still this does not affect the quality of the job - just the time taken to pack a given amount of stuff. Programming. My machine has 10 program pre-sets each of which has control over <%Vacuum>; <Time held at 100%>; <% Vacuum after Gas Flush>; <Seal Time> and <Soft Air Time>. This flexibility has allowed me to set up programs for nearly all the jobs I do. I've also set up one program to vacuum to 100% and hold for the maximum time with no sealing - I use this one to infuse things in a container in the chamber (Gin into Watermelon is interesting!). My normal program for Sous Vide is 99% (read 100% but the display is 2 digits) Vacuum, Hold for 5 Seconds, Seal for 2.5 seconds, Soft Air for 3 seconds. Pump Type, a lot of the cheaper machines use dry vibrating type pumps. These cannot pull the same kind of pressure as a rotary oil type pump. Also the pump is probably the only component ever likely to break in a vacuum machine so it is a good thing to have a pump made by a recognised supplier rather than the "anonymous Chinese" type which has no spare parts or support. My machine uses a pump from Busch which is a large European company with a good international presence. This was an important consideration for me – I didn’t want to end up owning the world’s most expensive boat anchor! Gas Flush is probably the least used feature I have although it is useful. BTW the gas I use is a mixture of CO2 and Nitrogen. They call it Multi-Mix here and it is the gas used for post mix soft drinks (sodas for you US guys). Getting set up for Gas Flush was not a really cheap exercise - apart from the cost of the feature on the machine. I needed to purchase a regulator at a cost of about $170 and I had to "rent" the gas bottle for a similar amount- I guess that I'll get those dollars back one day(?). The cost for the gas itself was trivial. Gas Flush is great for packing things that you don't want to crush - but I find that I don't use it that often and I could easily live without it. Also if you plan on having your machine in the kitchen you will also need to house a gas bottle which is about 750mm high and 200mm or so in diameter. Vacuum bags - my supplier will sell them in 100's without too much of an uplift over the 1000 price so I can keep a range of sizes on hand from 350mm x 450mm down to 110mm x 150mm. The most used sizes are 165 x 225 and 210 x 300. You will find that once you have such a machine you tend to pack things for freezing in individual portions - bags are really cheap compared to Foodsaver type bags so it is easier to opt for flexibility in future consumption. I have never used Foodsaver type rolls - they cost many times the cost of the regular bags and with a range of sizes on hand I have had no need. Labelling. I label all my bags using a Brother QL570 which can use fairly cheap continuous paper tape. I find that it sticks well and the printing survives SV cookery – at least at protein temperatures! I hope this is useful, Cheers, Peter.

Where did you find it - or is that Top Secret?

Have a look at Eat Your Books I have over 750 cookbooks and the EYB site recognises 650 of them - some are old, pre-isbn books and others are obscure and not known by them yet. Of those 650 180 are fully indexed which equates to >55000 recipes. Since subscribing to EYB I have found many recipes that I had on the shelf, but would not have found without their index. It doesn't give you the recipe on the ipad - but it does give you an index to your paper resources. Cheers, Peter.

BTW - tonight I went to a presentation by Heston Blumenthal here in Sydney. At one point he sought questions from the audience and one question was from an owner of a small restaurant in Canberra who wanted to know how she could "get with the program" without investing a fortune on specialist equipment. Heston's answer was to get a chamber vacuum machine and a sous vide bath! Cheers, Peter.

Yes. These machines use timers rather than pressure sensors to get to a level of vacuum. It's a bit trial and error as you need to take into account the size of the item(s) in the chamber as the "spare space" has to be evacuated and the time to do this is longer for smaller items as the unused space is bigger. Machines like my Henkelman use pressure sensors to determine the length of the vacuum cycle and only use timers for the other parts of the program like time to hold at 100% vacuum, sealing time and soft air time. But the big down side is that machines like these typically cost thousands not hundreds. I'm sure that with some experimentation you will find some times which work well for your regular applications. For most sous vide use I pull 100% vacuum and hold it for 5 seconds. With delicate items like fish I usually only pull 97% so as not to crush it. A while ago I read an interesting article on the Cooking Issues blog describing an experiment where different pressures were used prior to SV cooking and a taste test was done on the samples. I just had a quick look and couldn't find the page. If you can find it - it is worth reading. Cheers, Peter.

It's not the same as shrink wrapping, but if you use a bag close to the size of the item being packed the effect is similar. All the air is excluded from the bag and it is held tightly against the item. The multiple sealing wires are all in the same unit (ie parallel and close together - in my machine about 5mm apart).

The commercial machines have multiple sealing wires. Usually one of these is a cut off wire so that any excess bag can just be torn off. My Henkelman machine has this feature.

I jumped ship from Amazon.com in October and placed an order on Amazon Canada to save $100. At the time both sites had the same shipping dates. According to the second delay notification I received my copy is now due to ship on April 14. It seems to me that there are some folk who ordered from Amazon.com this year who already have their deliveries while those of us with orders months older at Amazon.ca are still waiting. My greatest concern is that after placing my initial order in June last year I could miss out on print-run one - this would be bad enough, but would be even worse if the earthquake/tsunami disaster in Japan meant that the second print run was on different paper as Nathan hinted. Has anyone received their copy from Amazon Canada? If so when was the order placed? Thanks, Peter.

I'm not sure that this "feature" would be a good thing! Hopefully after sufficient time @ 60C the food would have been pasteurised so subsequent holding at 50C would not be dangerous, but I'd usually err on the side of caution. The only protein I cook at 60C is chicken breast and 4 hours would be bordering on too long for a good result in my view. I'm not sure what additional time at 50C would do but I cannot imagine it improving the taste or texture. Most meat is better cooked at lower temperatures (personal opinion) and holding at 50C for a long time after cooking at <55C would not be a safe thing to do. The golden rule of SV cookery (deduced from these pages - thanks NathanM and DouglasB) is that <55C 4 hours is the maximum safe cooking time and at 55C or above you can cook for as long as you want to. (56C beef ribs are still pink and medium rare in appearance after 60 hours!) Cheers, Peter.

For other Aussie readers, I found a good source of jars here: Cospak They have a huge range of jars and closure options. I chose a couple of sizes both with white nylon lids so there is no separate seal which can fail over time (as my previous spice jar exercise which had plastic coated paper seals inside rigid plastic lids - eventually they were not air-tight). According to "Modern Gastronomy: A to Z" Malic Acid is used as an acidity regulator and can be used to stimulate the taste buds making them more sensitive to other tastes. In the food industry it can be found in jams, jellies, soft drinks, canned fruits and vegetables. It's use in restaurants is listed as: In experimentation. Cheers, Peter.

Damn! I got the same email from Amazon.ca. It seems I am paying a penalty for cancelling the Amazon.com order to save $100. Doesn't seem like much of a bargain now :-( Peter

While I am sure we will have a great reference when MC ships, there is also another good source of information about "molecular" ingredients: Modern Gastronomy A to Z by Alicia Foundation which was founded by Ferran Adria. The book is essentially a dictionary of ingredients and additives and describes their source, use in food processing and use in restaurants. I got my copy from Book Depository UK. Hope this is useful. Regards, Peter.

Does anyone else feel that this discussion is spiralling out of control towards the "mine is bigger / better than yours" stage? Can we put a lid on it and wait until someone has actually tried making a pizza on a 3/4" metal plate using a domestic oven? I believe that the authors had success with this method, but the kitchen equipment available to them is not the stuff of mere mortals. I would really like to see the results before purchasing yet another item of kitchen gear which takes up space and is seldom used - especially if it weighs 30kg. Just my $0.02c Peter

OK Nathan, I read the Wired article with interest and having tried Heston's chips with some success I now find that having a chamber vacuum machine is not enough to make the perfect French Fry (we call them chips here in Aus like the Brits). Does the book explain the equipment needed for ultrasonic cavitation? I have a small device which uses ultrasound to clean my wife's jewellery, but given it only holds about 1 litre of water I'd need lots of small bags of potato batons and a long time..... With any amount of luck I'll have my copy of the book(s) within 2 weeks - I can't wait! Cheers, Peter.

Why would anyone be concerned with cooking pizza on aluminium? Most pizza restaurants (except for those with wood fired ovens) make their pizzas on aluminium pans and they use ovens which can reach 600C. A very large percentage of commercial saucepans are aluminium also. The only issue with aluminium is that it is not good to hold anything acidic after the cooking is over. So given that aluminium is cheaper and lighter than steel or stainless steel - would it perform as well? Regards, Peter.

Just checked Amazon Canada and they still say my order will ship on March 7. I hope so - In October, like others I cancelled an Amazon.com order made originally in June to save around $100 with Amazon.ca. If I had known that a $100 saving could have cost me a month I'm not sure I'd have made that decision with hindsight. In any case Chris is keeping my curiosity sated for now. Please keep up the good work. Regards, Peter.

After you have recruited Michael Laskonis, you might consider Paco Torreblanca - and while you're at it Albert Adria is going to be looking for somewhere to cook soon :-) Cheers, Peter.

Annoying redirection thing to the popsci.com.au site. Drives me crazy on a regular basis. You can either use a US IP proxy service, VPN (I use Comodo Trust Connect) or try this link (the lab gallery on popsci viewed through a proxy browser): Modernist Cuisine Lab Thanks for that - I was able to see the impressive photos using your proxy suggestion. Just one thing - by clicking on the link in your mail I got just the proxy site - not the PopSci site. If anyone has this problem go to the proxy site first and then paste the link http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/gallery/2011-02/equipment-gallery?image=0 into the field in that page. Can't wait for my copy of the books to arrive! Cheers, Peter.

When attempting to look at the PopSci page I just get a message that the page is not available. I can navigate the PopSci site, but not see this article. Any clues? Peter.

Soft air release in chamber vacuum machines would not have any effect on the end result. What it is used for is to protect delicate items from the instant ingress of normal atmosphere air after the set vacuum is reached. Soft air will let a bag collapse gently around what is inside before the full pressure of the outside air is let into the chamber. The pressure achieved is the same whether soft air is used or not. If chicken at 99% vacuum is not as good as chicken at 95% that will be the case irrespective of the use of soft air. I agree with those who say that a chamber machine is not necessary for SV cookery, but I wouldn't want everyone to think that it is not a good thing to have. If you want to get set up for SV from scratch at the cheapest way to do it well, get a Foodsaver, a Sous Vide Magic and a cheap rice cooker - job done! If on the other hand you want to experiment with vacuum infusions and vacuum compression or if you plan to pack lots of liquid items, think about a small chamber machine. I bought my vacuum machine (Henkelman Boxer 42) years before I'd heard about SV. I had used it primarily to facilitate the freezing of nearly everything from portions of meat, poultry and fish, and also single or dual serve pouches of soups and stews etc. The freezer life of almost anything packed this way is far longer than can be achieved with foodsaver type devices or in the case of soups etc. the freezer space saved compared to the use of tupperware (or similar) is substantial. At the time I got my machine there were not many alternatives and with 20-20 hindsight I do not need such a large machine. It is true that chamber machines use much cheaper bags than foodsaver type machines, but I'd need to live for 500 years to break even on that basis. Now that there are smaller chamber machines available for <$1000 do not write them off if your budget allows. Cheers, Peter.

From my understanding of the effort that has gone into researching and then writing and photographing this work $600 seems pretty cheap. I would be surprised if Nathan makes a much of a profit even with the $600 price tag, especially considering the high quality paper and printing process used. What he will make however is a contribution to the world's understanding of cooking which in years to come will likely be seen as significant as those of Carême and Escoffier.

You may have already found this, but I discovered your post and a NZ contact to "mycook" while researching a possible purchase myself. http://www.hospotrade.co.nz/for-sale/kitchen-equipment/my-cook-professional-heat-assisted-blender.html Hope this helps. BTW I would be very interested in your further feedback. Regards, Peter.

Before someone picks me up on it the paragraph which reads: The Amazon.ca site had Modernist Cuisine for CAD434.08. The shipping options for Amazon.ca are: CAD17.98 for 30-40 weeks delivery!!! CAD26.98 for 7-14 weeks and CAD36.98 for "Priority International Courier" - 3-7 days delivery. Should say: The Amazon.ca site had Modernist Cuisine for CAD397.10. The shipping options for Amazon.ca are: CAD17.98 for 30-40 weeks delivery!!! CAD26.98 for 7-14 weeks and CAD36.98 for "Priority International Courier" - 3-7 days delivery. Sorry to confuse - I used my total buy price inclusive of shipping. Cheers, PB

I too have just cancelled my Amazon.com order in favour of ordering from Amazon.ca. One thing I noticed is that the shipping costs are very different between the US and Canadian sites. My original US Amazon order was USD421.87 plus USD9.98 for shipping (Totalling USD431.85 which today is AUD439.45). That shipping method was giving me a ship date of 7 Mar 2011 and an expected delivery date of 22 Mar 2011 (roughly 2 weeks). I didn't check alternate shipping options at the time as I have had many experiences with Amazon US orders taking about that time to reach Australia using the default shipping option. The Amazon.ca site had Modernist Cuisine for CAD434.08. The shipping options for Amazon.ca are: CAD17.98 for 30-40 weeks delivery!!! CAD26.98 for 7-14 weeks and CAD36.98 for "Priority International Courier" - 3-7 days delivery. I have never used Amazon.ca, but I didn't know that any business still used carrier pigeons to deliver freight! I ordered my copy using the priority courier option on the .ca site saving a total of AUD8.88 but with the added advantage that the estimated delivery is now 10-16 Mar 2011. I'm nearly $9 up and get my copy around 1 or 2 weeks earlier. All in all this is good, but not necessarily a fantastic deal. The ridiculously long delivery times quoted by Amazon.ca may not be the same for people in other countries, nor even real, but it is worth checking. I cannot imagine waiting 30-40 weeks from the publication of this work before getting into it! Hope that nobody has been caught by this. Regards, Peter.