Wilfrid

What a versatile word it is. Byt the way, Adam, I can't believe your bio-thread is locked. I have nowhere to post all the interesting stuff.

We're just getting more accustomed to being overcrowded, aren't we? Now I think of it, I have eaten in many top end restaurants, where it's a real squeeze to get out of a banquette seat without moving tables. From memory: Cello, La Caravelle, Picholine, Jo Jo - tell me if I'm wrong. I usualy find I am separated from the adjacent party on a banquette only by a fancy shopping bag. Les Halles on Park is almost intolerable, but I still tolerate it. My big problem with tables close together is that adjoining parties are forever engaging me in conversation, which is almost always unwelcome. If anyone's got any ideas how to stop that...

I haven't had a faggot for several years, thanks for asking. I was prompted to create them (or rather the faggot loaf) by a combination of the British food threads here and picking up Jane Grigson's book on English food at an airport last week. Yes, she is the guilty party. No mention of mezzalunas in her recipe. The loaf tasted fine, by the way. I cut it into large cubes, so I had faggots with corners. Do you get faggots up your way?

This is a restaurant where I too would recommend a tasting menu so you get an overview of the different things the kitchen can do with spices. The big plate of amuses bouches is terrific - I am not sure whether you get that if you go a la carte.

I agree, Macrosan, but to be fair there is an English title Marquess (as in Marquess of Bath) - probably a corruption of the French dating back to the 1000s - and that may be what Stefany heard. Bux - maybe we are just having problems with our attempts phonetic spellings. For me, the vowel sound in the first syllable of Daniel is pronounced the same as the vowel sound in the French words dans, andouille and indeed France. I wouldn't say there's much difference to the vowel sound in the first syllable of encore, although maybe there's a subtle difference to French ears. That is what I meant to signify by "Don...". Stefany was going for an "ah" sound, with which I cordially disagree.

I have to agree about obnoxiousness, tommy. Macrosan, I think you place the standard a little higher than I would. I have had slightly underwhelming dishes and minor service slip-ups at four star restaurants, and have never felt I therefore wouldn't go back. Examples: had to wave my arms about a bit to get a soup spoon at Le Cirque. A bit of confusion over whether I'd asked for the check at ADNY. Pheasant entree not hot enough at Daniel. I can take those in my stride, despite the cost. Macrosan - I take it you'll be turning down Concrode upgrades in future! ;)

Yes, Damian, I am sufficiently grouchy to have been driven crazy by that 'Moul-on Rouge' nonsense throughout the release and promotion of the film, and every time I've heard about it. What's so difficult. I do, in fact, grate my teeth a little at the American pronunciation of quite a few French and Italian words. I shouldn't, as I am a guest in this country. But I do. I was about to give examples, but find I don't know how to spell them phonetically. How about this? Why say "bri-oash" when it's "bri-osh"? Or "Ri-oa -ha" when it's "Ri- o - cha"?

Makes sense, Rachel. I guess it's either that or reduce the liver in the recipe so that its slurriness is outweighed by the drier ingredients. I think less liver is called for anyway.

I disagree with Stefanyb, while continuing to respect her. I think Daniel is correctly pronounced "Don'yell". An American accent (as opposed to a French accent) might make it sound more like "Dahn'yell" or "Dun'yell". I agree with her about accenting the last syllable. Tommy, I respect you too, but please. hell? I just got back from Surrey.

Neither. Do you want to know what it is?

That's a very shrewd comment, tommy :o :o I know I'm sometimes sufficiently excited by what I;ve heard about a restaurant that I will go out of my way to overlook small (and even medium-sized faults). My dining companion is a useful corrective: she likes good food, but has no interest in the reputations of chefs and restaurants. If it's rubbish, she says so.

Hmm. Different from sixteen year old babies, then. Wish I'd known. Sounds like you're fully booked for Charleston already. We were there summer before last and liked Anson, which was doing, I suppose, a modern bistro version of low country cooking. Does that make sense? Two downsides to Charleston: everywhere seemed to be closed by eleven o'clock, and they have some seriously zany liquor law which prevents bars and restaurants pouring from a full-sized bottle. All hard liquor is served in little plastic miniatures, which the shelves in bars look stupid, and gives you the sense of being in an airplane all the time. We liked Savannah better.

There are many pitfalls. I expect Craft would be pronounced differently by a number of us. No right answer there, either. Bid is pretty straightforward, I think. On second thoughts, a southerner could probably get two syllables out of it.

I think I agree with all the principles expressed on the thread so far. I have been trying, however, to think of a restaurant I found really bad the first time I tried it, but then actually did give a second chance to. I am coming up blank. I do recall being disappointed on first visits to Union Pacific and Veritas, but neither meals were remotely bad. I concluded that Union Pacific could do better, and I was subsequently proved right; and Veritas, which had just opened, got into such an improbable mess with our order I figured it was a just a teething problem - right again.

Dinner at St John last week. A bit hit or miss, although the menu is certainly interesting. The pig's cheek salad was wildly oversalted. The roast pigeon was unremarkable, and the accompanying beetroot was picked (i.e. vinegary). But my dining companions made some better choices. The roast lamb looked excellent. Does Fergus Henderson actually cook in the kitchen? I like his ideas, and his cook book has recipes that work well, but there seems to be a lack of precision in the dishes served in the restauarant.

I have eaten on the top floor, and it is a little more elegant. Trouble is, as the night wears on, the noise from downstairs becomes noticeable and annoying. Also, stray drinkers, unable to find room downstairs, start drifting in and making a commotion in the bar. Horrible, ugly, nasty, noisy place. Actually, I had the belly pork for lunch once, and was luckier with it than Cabrales. My appalling experience was ordering one of the lovingly described steaks (they make a big fuss about the source of the meat and its quality) and being served a revolting piece of gristle I'd have thrown at the wall if I hadn't been someone's guest.

Also consider the various cooked shellfish appetizers. They serve an excellent, creamy oyster roast, and from memory you can get other shellfish cooked that way too. Also, I believe this is an example of a non-steakhouse restaurant serving steakhouse standard steaks (gee, try saying that quickly...)

Call them up and listen to what the receptionist who answers the phone says. In fact, it's sometimes quite surprising how people pronounce the names of restaurants they work for.

Thanks for the tip; I assumed such affairs were extinct.

Speaking of fried chicken, is Popeye's any good? Or just how bad is it? I used to like - within bounds - KFC in the UK, but each experiment with it in New York has been disgusting.

Liver of a pig, but I can see the same problem with calves, sheep and ox livers. I am having trouble imagining mincing a chicken liver. I am going to claim that it was a recipe for crepinettes, because the real name of the foodstuff in question will make everyone snigger. Essentially, one was invited to mince 10oz of pork belly, 1lb of pig liver*, and mix these with two beaten eggs, a handful of breadcrumbs, sage, mace, seasoning, mix it up well, roll it into balls and wrap it in caul. Once my liver was reduced to sludge, there was no question of rolling the mixture into balls. Resourceful as ever, I lined a loaf-tin with foil and turned the recipe into "faggot loaf". Oops, I mean "crepinette loaf"! Once the liver and eggs started to cook, everything got bound together fine. *Next time, I would reverse these proportions, quite apart from the mincing problem.

One frequent comment I've seen about Ouest is that at last the Upper West Side has got a great restaurant. Was it a bold decision to open in a location not known as a gastronomic destination? Is it easier to open a restaurant in an area already established for fine dining, such as the Flatiron, or are there actually advantages in opening up new territory?

I followed a recipe yesterday which called for a pound of minced liver. How the heck do you mince liver? I tried slicing it into small pieces, then used the setting on my processor which satisfactorily minces most meats. But I can see no way - whether you use an old-fashioned meat grinder, or just carry on chopping with a knife - to avoid ending up with slurry. Wet brown goo. Maybe if you cooked the liver a little first - but then it's going to be crumbly, and dry out during the rest of the cooking. Was it a dumb instruction in the recipe, or am I missing something? (Anyone want to try some left over slurry?)

I recall from Joseph Mitchell's account of old-time New York "beefsteaks"* that the tradition for these seriously carnivorous beef parties was for the steak to be served sliced, dipped in sauce, and often presented on toast. I wonder if some of that tradition survives in the Luger style of presentation - or maybe they slice it for other reasons? *In The New Yorker; re-printed in his collection Up at the Old Hotel.

What with an unwelcome trip to Surrey, of all places, and then the server problem, I have had to wrack my brains to remember what we ate at Tocqueville. We had to hang around in the bar a while before being seated in the dining room, resisting the temptation to wave cheerily at Yvonne every five minutes. We eventually got into the dining room and had a good, but certainly pricy, meal. Tocqueville may be quite small, but it's ambitious, and the cost reflects that. Yvonne gave the prices above. I liked the salmon tartare (I think it was smoked). My Beloved got the quail, a generous appetizer (two birds as I recall). I had the special - seared baby abalone - which turned out to be disappointing; it could have just been slightly chewy squid - although the presentation in a big shell was pretty. The other half had the venison. She insists on well done, so I can't comment much on the quality (it took the kitchen two attempts to cook it thoroughly enough). But I had "pan roast" veal loin, which had the softeness and texture of braised meat. It came with good mashed potatoes. I thought our dessert course was exceptional. The Beloved wanted any kind of icre cream, as long as it was chocolate. She also veeted off the menu and demanded chocolate sauce. They brought her two sauces with her ice cream, one rich and dark (probably meant for the souffle), and another lighter, creamier one. Very thoughtful. I had a goat's cheese cheesecake, garnished with some bitter orange. The texture of the cheese made the cake sort of grainy and chewable; excellent. Very good burgundy - Corton 'Les Renardes' (1996). Some extra aperitifs had crept onto our check when it was presented, which is annoying because it makes one a little suspicious - probably for no reason. But overall a serious restaurant, and certainly punching its weight alongside Veritas and Fleur de Sel in the Flatiron. I agree that it's no bargain, but I thought the cooking was good enough for the prices not to be considered absurd.