Wilfrid

I did try the rib-eye, and it was good. They also willingly butterflied the filet mignon for my Beloved, who likes beef but cannot eat it bloody. Quaint place. They also offer an opportunity to try Kobe beef without breaking the bank by including a chunk of it in the mixed grill. Haven't tried that, but (as you can see) I had a good squint at the table next to ours who were eating it.

I saw that practice in Morocco not long ago. By which I mean the local bakery providing a communal oven. Women queuing up outside tiny, open-to-the-street bakers in back streets of Marakkesh, bearing their ready-prepared tagines. it must indeed influence what you're going to cook and when. I am ashamed to say I didn't make a cassoulet this past winter. My wretched store of duck confit turned green - never happened before. (Confused...which thread am I on...?)

tommy, my heart is fluttering in my rib-cage like a trapped canary. By the way, if you're in the vicinity of a certain midtown boxing bar around eight this evening, you can embarrass me in front of my wife. Come to think of it, I can probably leave that to Annique.

You lucky thing - I remember Koffman's pig's foot fondly. I will check out the Clerkenwell DR thread again; and indeed, I have been to Club Gascon, although it was some time before I ever discovered eGullet.

The poems were......fresh and interesting. You are very kind to make the St John menu offer, but it's already too late. I shall be in a computer free zone shortly, then setting off for London this weekend, and unlikely to read your post in time. It is a very frustratingly short trip, as I can see only one real dining out opportunity. I may dine out on business too one evening, but I have no confidence in the people who will choose the restaurant. I know Chiswick, and must make a note of the the Springbok for a future trip. The advantage of St. John is that I'll be close by there; the Clerkenwell Dining Rooms is an option too. I have decided I dislike Smith's. If I am overlooking some splendid new place in the Clerkenwell/Smithfield area please say. By new, I guess I mean open in the last year, otherwise I've probably been there). Thanks again. (It's none of my business, but if you are London based, why are you a bit uncertain about the whole "metro/tube" deal? Tell me not to be nosy, by all means. Do you just never use it?)

Yes, most of my friends are either hanging in there or are recovering alcoholics.

Drat. Squirrel season has just finished. I just had a chat with someone at St. Jonh, and they tell me the season during which squirrel can be culled as vermin is only about three weks every year. It's just over, and the last two squirrels are on the menu tonight (don't know if they're taken yet). Must make a squirrel season note in next year's diary!

It certainly is. But what amuses me about it is this. Yip Harburg wasn't that familiar with the gaelic language, or indeed with Ireland, so when he wanted a typical Irish name for a pretty country village, he came up with a happy corruption from his own vocabulary of the German (or is it Yiddish) glucke morgen - pleasant morning, I believe. And then you see it used as the name of "authentic" Irish bars!

Steve, as for trying to establish "superiority", I guess it's my reaction to being called a "knucklehead" when I point out, mildly enough, that something doesn't make sense. Iw ould much rather conduct this discussion affably. It is - and I am being sincere - hard to know what you are saying because it does, inadvertently or not, keep changing. Last time around, you said: "The moneyed classes in Britain made a conscious decision to do this and they had to know what the results would be." A conscious decision, and they had to know the results. That's simply different from the admitting that they may or may not have foreseen the consequences. And it remains different, no matter how loud you raise your voice. But, as I said, I am happy just to forget about trying to clarify your theory so we can see whether it's right or not. I plan to sit back and read some of these genuinely interesting posts by other contributors (unless you call me a knucklehead again, of course).

Steve, I never expressed an opinion on whether you or some Chairman had trouble finding a restaurant or not. I was just trying to parse what you meant by: "Tony-That's a current list. The dinner I was talking about happened nearly a dozen years ago." Which seemed a daft remark given that half the restaurants on the list were around a dozen years ago. Steve, if you think I've been denying that there have long been many problems with British cuisine, you must be reading my posts somewhat selectively - whether deliberately or not, who knows?

Dammit, I'm in London - hopefully eating squirrel. Hope you get a turnout for this.

I have only one disagreement with you, Adam. it can be answered "simply", and Plotnicki's just the man to do it. Over to you, big boy. (Clue: It will be something about us lacking "gumption".)

Steve, I am trying to raise the level of debate, but it's like pushing porridge up hill. Your "why did they stand for it?" question is as incoherent and unworthy of consideration as it ever was*, and it's hard to discuss these issues at all with someone who thinks British peasants had the vote in 1760** (see Mr Lawrence), or that the French aristocracy were "smart" when it came to maintaining terms between the classes (save me some work, and just put "guillotine" in your search engine - yes, the aristocracy certainly kept the peasants "off their backs". Their necks, however...). Look, shall we have an interesting discussion about the thoughtful posts from people like Adam and John Whiting, or shall we just carry on sneering at each other? By the way, you conceded way back that the "decision" by the British moneyed class may not have been conscious and that they did not necessarily foresee the results, but there is no point me quoting that, as you will accuse me of "cutting and pasting". *Just to knock this on the head: Perhaps you are trying to ask, not why the mass of poor people in Britain have historically tolerated poor gastronomy (a stupid question), but why the poor and oppressed tolerate social injustice instead of rising up to overthrow it (a timeless question). If so, you have your pick of conservative analyses in Thomas Hobbes or his 20th century interpreter Michael Oakeshott, or a range of socialist analyses in the Marxist, Marxist-Leninist and anarchist (Bakunin, especially) traditions. I wish I knew who was right (although I have my preferences). **not to pin you down to a particular year, of course, take anywhere between 1750 and 1850 you like.

I just noticed a recipe for Cioppino in the March edition of Groumet. I don't know if it's a good one, as I'm not familiar with the dish.

Thanks for reminding me as to what the absurd UK figures actually were. I always suffered momentary loss of hearing when my physician told me. A rough calculation puts me on around 65 units per week. And I'm still thirsty - what am I doing wrong? :wow: :wow: :wow:

It is an interesting question, and would be worth pursuing if we could get away from the question of whether each piece of evidence is consistent with Steve P.'s original "simple as that" theory or not. And believe it or not, I don't believe Steve's entirely to blame for us getting stuck in that rut. Not entirely. Question which intrigues me, and I don't know the answer, is why Britain industrialized in that period to a far greater extent than France. Was it simply that Britain had the wealth to do so? Obviously, industrialization brought benefits as well as causing all kinds of problems (and not just in the gastronomic arena). It contributed to Britain's powerful international presence in the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries. What were the mercantile class in France up to during the period? And Germany? Big industrialization, but in some regions only - that's my vague recollection. Correct? (I am aware this is probably very basic socio-economic history, and wish I was better informed.)

Please report back Liza, especially if you venture beyond the burger, which is the only thing I've tried.

At a rough count, around half of the restaurants on Tony's list have been around for a dozen years, and some of them have been around forever. Don't tell me, Steve, that's not what you meant by "current". Tutti frutti, I am guessing your an American. Are you prepared to reveal your origins more specifically so that I can insult them effectively?

I am with your husband on that, however you spell them. A scrape of tomato ketchup too, please.

Cabrales - Do you mean as comfortable as one assumes they would be in France? Often not. My French is lousy, but I have sometimes attempted to communicate in French with a New York waiter who has greeted me with "Bonjour, Monsieur" only to find that's the limit of their vocabulary.

Mr Finch, you are right. I think we should all go down to A Balic's bio thread for a pint. They do serve drinks down there. don't they?

Nah mate, gertcha, blimey (etc...) You could make the third and fourth lines scan too, without loss of sense, if you deleted the words "cruel" and "game". Wilfrid: poems fixed while you wait. (Sssssh! Don't anyone tell Steve, but I think Yvonne believes French food is better than English food too. I think she said so more than once, just like me and everyone else. But let's humour him - we might get an eGullet New York dinner out of the plan!)

There was a young bard, name of Finch Who from limericks never did flinch. His verse never scanned, And thus ought to be banned, But he found inspiration a cinch. Okay, There once was a man named Plotnicki. Though his arguing style was quite tricky, He believed what he said, And yelled "Knucklehead!" At all whose objections were picky. I impress myself.

Definitely should be locked, or it will turn into a poke fun at Plotnicki thread, and Andy Lynes will have to apologize for all of us.

Look, you can point to my endless reams of factual errors, my incoherent logic and the fact I change my position every five posts. You can even cut and paste my plain self-contradictions, if you like. But none of that will change the fact that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Boneheads.